Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish

plastic_avatar

@BlueBirdMusic

Those rings look AMAZING.

Where are they from?

skipshot12

^ If I’m not mistaken I believe it’s from the varsity in Atlanta.
A true monument hot dog joint.
Nathan’s of Coney Island of the south 😬

plastic_avatar

Whoa.

[goes to research Varsity (I figured it was NC and south because of the peach pie... but really had no clue)... and Google says...]

plastic_avatar

Need some help, I either can't find parts or I'm having a Rona stroke

I thought I was going to remove 2 pieces from the crossover and wire in jumpers or somesuch... but I can't find the entries in my project notebook.

There are 2 different things you lot have shown me. I think some of these images I saved might be from @joebass3 @VR3 @westmassguy and/or @audioluvr (or maybe someone else).

So mine are like this:



and the 2 versions I see are either with jumpers (or maybe even one jumper and one not...):



and 1 that has more resistor action going on:



I think I'm confusing the 1C parts with a secondary parts buy with some help @F1nut gave me on my Monitor 12... but I don't know.

And I don't know about the rest of you who had mild Rona, but it's kicked me in the head with a brain-busting boot this past year. From not finding my words (which sucks, you know I loooooove words), to my CPU running quite a few cycles slower, this thing blows.

v3 of my crossover bracket is a go, and I'm printing The one for the right side tonight. I've got everything out on my bench for the left crossover: cut pads, bent leads, and it's ready to assemble. EXCEPT FOR THIS HOLE IN MY BRAIN WHERE THERE USED TO BE INFORMATION.

audioluvr

plastic_avatar wrote: »

The resistor next to "P1" is the replacement for the poly switch. Some people just use a jumper but it will enhance the treble a lot

plastic_avatar

@audioluvr

What's the value on it?

Did you jumper the c4 slot, or leave it empty?

audioluvr

Leave C4 empty. Use a 0.5 ohm resistor.

F1nut

^ This ^

westmassguy

plastic_avatar wrote: »

Need some help, I either can't find parts or I'm having a Rona stroke

I thought I was going to remove 2 pieces from the crossover and wire in jumpers or somesuch... but I can't find the entries in my project notebook.

There are 2 different things you lot have shown me. I think some of these images I saved might be from @joebass3 @VR3 @westmassguy and/or @audioluvr (or maybe someone else).

So mine are like this:



and the 2 versions I see are either with jumpers (or maybe even one jumper and one not...):



and 1 that has more resistor action going on:



I think I'm confusing the 1C parts with a secondary parts buy with some help @F1nut gave me on my Monitor 12... but I don't know.

And I don't know about the rest of you who had mild Rona, but it's kicked me in the head with a brain-busting boot this past year. From not finding my words (which sucks, you know I loooooove words), to my CPU running quite a few cycles slower, this thing blows.

v3 of my crossover bracket is a go, and I'm printing The one for the right side tonight. I've got everything out on my bench for the left crossover: cut pads, bent leads, and it's ready to assemble. EXCEPT FOR THIS HOLE IN MY BRAIN WHERE THERE USED TO BE INFORMATION.

I sometimes mount the resistors on the underside of the board

BlueBirdMusic

plastic_avatar wrote: »

@BlueBirdMusic

Those rings look AMAZING.

Where are they from?

A little more info for you. There was a glass-enclosed room where the preparation of the onion rings could be observed in the 60 and early 70's. I remember the 60's with all the wonderful cars that would drive through with engines blasting. Always lots of Corvettes, GTO's, etc.; so many cars circling in and out, it was impossible traffic jam. The Varsity had different areas/rooms where one could eat while watching on of the 3-4 TV stations of the day. The Varsity was the number one outlet in the world for Coca-Cola.

I had Chili Dog, Glorified Steak, Onion Rings, Peach Pie about two weeks ago. GREAT!






Frank Gordy opened the Varsity as “The Yellow Jacket” in 1928, catering to students of nearby Georgia Tech.

Eighty-eight years later, the Varsity claims to be the “world’s largest drive-in” and is a must-do for locals, tourists, and visiting dignitaries. Everyone is still greeted with the Varsity’s signature welcome, “What’ll ya have?” and on game days the restaurant serves over 30,000 people.

Over the years, the drive-in’s “curb men” have become part of the Varsity experience. The most famous was Flossie Mae who sang the menu to customers for fifty years. Television and movie star Nipsy Russell got his start at the Varsity as car hop #46.

The ordering lingo for this Atlanta icon is another part of its charm:

Naked dog walking – plain hot dog on a bun

F.O. – frosted orange

P.C. – plain chocolate milk always served with ice

Glorified steak – hamburger with mayo, lettuce, and tomato

But the Varsity is perhaps best known for its chili dogs and onion rings.

plastic_avatar

westmassguy wrote: »

I sometimes mount the resistors on the underside of the board

Aha! I have that image saved, too. I thought I had it all tied to the threads/posts, but I lost track of what was from whom.

I really like that placement.

I had a hard time pulling the wires down enough to reach the holes on the vertical placement. Was afraid I'd break it.

plastic_avatar

BlueBirdMusic wrote: »

A little more info for you.

Wow, that's wonderful.

Thank you for the great write-up.

Anyplace that serves chocolate milk with ice has got to be great (it's how I grew up drinking it).

Next time I go to Florida, I'll put it on my side-tracked route

Wait. My supervisor lives in Atlanta...

plastic_avatar

plastic_avatar wrote: »

BlueBirdMusic wrote: »

A little more info for you.

Wow, that's wonderful.

Thank you for the great write-up.

Anyplace that serves chocolate milk with ice has got to be great (it's how I grew up drinking it).

Next time I go to Florida, I'll put it on my side-tracked route

Wait. My supervisor lives in Atlanta... I'll see if he's been, too.

txcoastal1

We have an old same type of concept here in Houston

https://jamesconeyisland.com/about-us/#:~:text=Nestled on the ground floor,recipe” chili for only $.

skipshot12

The Varsity looks like a great place to start for eats then off to some Club Polk houses for an audio listen….
I’ll bring frosty beverages.

plastic_avatar

@txcoastal1

Yum. Sounds kind of like the hotdogs at a place in Johnstown PA... I forget the name.

I didn't check out the whole site. Do they sell the weiners in a pack?

---

Hey!

The Left crossover is done!

Jumper'd, until I get a couple of resistors.

It's not the prettiest, but fair for a first try at this bracket mod. Took me 3 iterations and 2 proto prints to get it right.

Yes, my corkscrew connection is too wide, but I don't have great fine control out in fingertip land.

So, I'll do the Right later.

IT'S HAPPENING







It might look like the big'un is hanging off the board. It's not. It just extends beyond the board.

Everything is tight and sturdy. I might do a test mount later.

plastic_avatar

And I Trotsky's icepick'd the back of my skull on this corner right here, picking up a screw I dropped.



[sonofa...]

Might wait to do the Right til tomorrow =(

pitdogg2

I had a hard time pulling the wires down enough to reach the holes on the vertical placement. Was afraid I'd break it.

Bending resistor leads that sharply that closely to the body can also damage them. You shouldn't bend any leads whether resistors or caps that sharply. It's advisable to use needle nose pliers to hold the lead at the body and then bend after the needle nosed pliers jaws.

plastic_avatar

Post assembly review #1: Potential mishaps

@pitdogg2

I did as suggested, but couldn't get it as close as the pics on other crossover pictures. I needed mere millimeters.

I pulled them gently and slowly. On crossover 2 I'll likely use a piece of cut lead on each and extend them.

I did mess up and bend the cap leads too close. They'll either work or I'll sell another ebay item to cover my mistake. That's another story, but it's done

plastic_avatar

I have a heartbeat.

Question, before I put in the passive on the Left.:

Playing one speaker on the 1C, no SDA cable... should all 4 woofers be playing?

Based on how it looks to an SDA n00b, I expect them to, but the SDA signal won't feed back through the SDA drivers without the cable.

Seems different than the 2-board crossovers.

Am I wrong?

Did I somehow wire them wonky? Not sure how I could where it would cause all 4 mw to play...

Thoughts?

Added 34 minutes later:

Put the passive in to see if everything is churning as I expect.

All 4 mw playing. Just running it while I prep for tomorrow.

- Transition from mw to tweeters is harsh.

I think that^ might be the SDA drivers. I covered them and it took most of that harshness away. Whew.

- Low is crazy tight and defined (My City Was Gone).

- Snaps are sharp and sound like snaps (Lido Shuffle).

- Highs are really a lot better than I expected from testing the tweets in the 5B. Experiments are fun, guys!

- Sitting 3 feet from the speaker. Can't make comments on much else. Bass needs some space. Tomorrow, if I'm able, I'll put together the Right one.

Disclaimers:

1) I know crossover burn-in will make a difference.

2) I know I may have to change out my dome backers for plain ol' felt/wool.

3) I know the plugs are an unknown for this speaker.

4) I know they were not meant to be played without the cable.

5) Bench tests are on my AX-596. It doesn't have the oomph or tone of the stereo, but it works.

westmassguy

The 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation SDAs all have the "Sub Bass Drive" circuit. It feeds the in-phase low frequency stereo signal through the large spool inductor, to the dimensional woofers. Otherwise they'd be canceling the lower frequencies. With the cable disconnected, no difference, or opposite channel signal is being fed to the dimensional woofers, only the low bass in-phase stereo signal. The 1st and 2nd generation SDAs used additional bass woofer(s) to compensate for the out of phase cone movement produced by the dimensional woofers

dromunds

Don’t forget you’ll need quite a long break-in period. During break-in, the sound quality will go from crap to good to crap to good. Put the tuner on and just let it play at low volume continuously for 100 hours or more. As you mentioned, you’ll also need better power before a proper judgment can be made

heiney9

Also, these speakers were designed to be their best when run together, not as a single speaker. I understand the excitement to hear just one speaker since they weren't both finished at the same time. But to try and analyze them with a single speaker playing and probably not even set-up properly, doesn't really mean much.

I know you wanted to make sure everything was hooked up/soldered properly so the above is more of a general statement.

As mentioned, break-in is very important as is a LOT of listening time after break-in. It'll be 6 months or so before I do a review on the L600's. It'll take me that long to judge them. A big indicator for me that a product is going to work in my rig is if I still get the same or more enjoyment over a long period of time (after the honeymoon phase).

When something is new, there's a level of excitement because, well, it's new. Plus your bias is you want it to sound spectacular so you need to get passed the "honeymoon phase" before real evaluation can start. Sometimes there are pieces of gear right out of the gate that you know aren't going to work, end of story. But most take time to properly assess.

H9

plastic_avatar

Break-in report

@westmassguy: Thank you for the knowledge. I appreciate it! With the cable, much better, but haven't heard them properly set up yet.

@dromunds: We're at 105'ish hours today. Even on bench, I can tell there's a difference. Will definitely do this for my 5B, too. Thank you.

@heiney9: I'll keep the extended break-in on my mind. I know the Monitor 12 have only gotten better over the past 2 years. I didn't think about it deeply until today (I'll explain more of that below). I took a step back from the bench eval until yesterday. because I was just struck by how nice they sounded Luckily, I expect failure (which is sad, I suppose), so success is a welcome surprise. It was a coping mechanism I got stuck with. So my honeymoon phases are full of critique and skepticism [laughs]. The real test comes this week!

Break-in observations from the bench

- The Wuhans don't grate on me like the 2000s. Much smoother to my ear. Curious to see if I keep my backwave diffuser as is, or if I decide to switch to pure felt/wool. Made a super rigid new plate with 6 additional screw points. May try that, just to make it sturdier. Working on a cover that conceals the screws.

- When streaming, I hear distortion in very loud sections of music with a lot going on. Might be compression. It was less noticeable on Amazon files, compared to Spotify. It is not noticeable on CD going through rca jacks.

- The Left speaker has the pipe wrap lining the passive chamber. The Right does not. I was curious how it would perform compared to the Noico in my Monitors. It's not a perfect example, but this sounds great nearfield, to me (posted yesterday on Gardenstater's foam mod thread):

https://youtu.be/TUlij8U4oKU

- The BH5, complete Armacel, and passive chamber wall coating appear to be working as I hoped. I'll be able to tell more when they're in place, but no audible red flags on bench. Example of some oomph that isn't affected negatively:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Sk9TmIRIIGU?feature=share

- No looking forward to disconnecting the crossovers to install that resistor I didn't put on the tweeter circuit. My bracket works great, but it's a YUGE p-i-t-a to latch the crossover on when the bracket is attached to the cabinet floor. I'm going to tweak the design for outboard screws, so you can mount the board to the bracket outside, then screw it in as one unit.

- The wrap, metal, and extra plastic adds a few pounds to each speaker. My back already hates me for the upcoming journey from bench to stereo placement. I don't know how you bug SDA owners manage!

- Trying to decide how best to mount Vr3's felt tweeter pad. I have little velcro thingies to try.

My streaming setup sucks. I need help figuring out something to get... cheap... that will get me closer to what I experience on CD

I tried streaming from my phones to the analog on the big stereo. Wanted to do some proper ratings on the M12 before swapping. Nothing sounded right. Everything was concentrated in a 3-4ft wide area in the middle.

Switched to CD, compared Walking in Your Footsteps by The Police. Streaming was a narrow sound field with little depth and subdued voice. The exact opposite happened when on CD. The difference was gigantic. I want my streamed music to sound as good as my CDs. How to manage on a budget?

plastic_avatar

About the my streaming setup thoughts:

- I have a lot of flac files of my own stuff.

- I have Macs w/ optical outs.

-Thus far, the Amazon files have less of that distortion I really pick up from Spotify. I have fiber internet. Speeds are more than adequate for streaming.

- The change in width and depth, separation and placement, between CD and streaming is night and day. Another song on my eval list is Ramble On. It is reduced to a musical smear. Where on CD, the pinpointing of all elements is easy, wide, and pleasant.

- Does a good DAC really change that?

- Showing my hifi DAC ignorance here, but is there a DDC-type interface? Like optical to digital magic restoration to optical?

xschop

I'm not well-versed on DAC set-up either, but I get CD quality sound from my flac-recorded tracks played thru my LG-G7 or LG-V60 "quad-dac" phones. Whereas I get sub-par quality from the same Flac-recorded tracks played through a Samsung tablet or Windows micro PC.

I've dedicated my LG-G7 to the main rig when streaming most of the time.

Gardenstater

My streaming setup is: Internet Router Gateway --> Ethernet Cable (or wifi) --> Squeezebox Touch --> USB cable --> iFi nano iDSD DAC --> RCA plug interconnects --> Amplifier. I am getting a super low noise floor that I never got when using the computer USB outputs directly into the DAC. That had all sorts of noise pollution going out even over the USB and even when I used a separate power supply to power the DAC instead of the power from the computer.

plastic_avatar

DAC comments above = [thumbs up]

I'll do more reading today [sigh]. SO MUCH RESEARCH THIS YEAR...

Speaker/crossover burn-in technique

I found this and thought 'Why the Hazmada didn't I think of that?'

---

Cambridge Audio:

The most basic way to run in your speakers is to set them up with your system and use them normally. Usually the speakers will be sufficiently run in after a total of 20-30 hours of normal use and they will often continue to develop and improve for the first hundred or so hours.

There is however a slightly more convenient and quicker way to achieve the same result without having to annoy the neighbours for a whole weekend.

Firstly, position your speakers facing each other with about an inch of distance between them and connect them to the amplifier as normal. Then simply reverse the polarity on one of the speakers. This means that at one end of the speaker cable on either the left or right channel, you swap the positive or negative connections over. (See diagram)



How To Run In Speakers

Reversing the polarity and playing the speakers facing each other helps them cancel each other out, meaning you will only be able to hear the highs so you don’t have to vibrate your room with bass. This gives you the ability to increase the volume and bass thus increasing the movement in your drivers to improve the running in process. This isn’t an excuse to crank it up to 11 however, we recommend keeping the volume at only a little higher than listening level. Playing at high volumes can damage the speakers and also overheat the amp if done for an extended amount of time.

You will often read lots of disputes on the internet over how long you should run in speakers for and honestly... there isn’t a definitive answer. Our advise to run them in for approximately 36 hours.

---

I'll set up my 5B like this when I do them and just let them run for 100+ hours like the 1C.

skipshot12

I recently installed a blue node into my system and have only streamed, so far, from the wife’s iPhone.
I cannot play the system as loud as when spinning discs. At loud levels I can end up with what sounds like mild clipping thru the iphone.
Pretty sure it’s the source as I know I’m not clipping my amp.

Never notice a compression of the soundstage or imaging thru the phone source.

My wife uses one of the equalizer settings on the iPhone and would bet that’s the source of clipping sounds.

invalid

It's definitely the source, phones are terrible as a source.