New MIT cables, adjustable articulation!

tonyb

Because he doesn't care Ray. He has an opinion and a wallet and neither dictate the time wasted.

befuddle

I have no horse in this race,only a willingness to learn Thats why I spent 3 hours watching the 3 cable seminars from the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest!
While some may be slightly dated the same principles apply in respect to current cable tech.
So while it was nice of DK to provide the links [which I bookmarked] You can also spend a hour watching the guy that designed and owns the company explain what his product does and the reasons its designed to do it [pictures of the innards of his then top network box are included ]
Aside from that seminar specific to MIT there are 2 others exclusive to cable that shed light on the design concepts of other manufactures
For those that may find the value of learning about audio beyond what their ears can tell them You Tube has over 100 seminars from this respected audio festival All given by respected professionals in their related fields of expertise.
So again if anybody would like to learn about various audio subjects often in a more concise and articulate way that can be described by those typing responses here I'd highly recommend going to You Tube and typing RMAF in the search bar The first link will provide a list of apx 80 seminars [more are available] To access the MIT seminar type RMAF11 high end cable

heiney9

Emotiva posts technical and subjective non-sense, funny how you let that slide. Oh wait, you own Emo gear so one better not crap where you sleep. Sorry, Mac gear has never really measured all that well, yet you seem to think it sounds great. So I'm not buying your, "look at the specs" to decide how things will sound and perform.

All the above you posted just shows how really clueless you are about this hobby, and that's OKAY. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

Horsepower, torque, 0-60, 1/4 mile times only show a very narrow window of how a car will perform, ride, drive on an everyday basis. Only an idiot would buy a car solely based on printed specs.

If you don't want to be enlightened that's perfectly alright. Some day maybe even you will accept it.

H9

P.s. From now on I refer to you as the "selective preacher"

heiney9

Really??? Theory is one thing, real life is another

halo71

smdh.....If everyone would ignore Xtroll. He might go away.

befuddle

IMO it would be best to drop it and let x have it,Nothing can be gained with pictures, curt responses and testimonials that will prove to him that there is any virtue in MIT cable.
And perhaps he's even right about their technical claims.
But until someone with a high degree of knowledge pertaining to their technical attributes joins this forum no functional discourse can ensue.
Bottom line is obviously they improve the snd.And I think it would be safe to assume that if asked 95% of professionals asked would agree that a varying level of improvement can be expected.
Its also a given conclusion that most cable manufacturers exhibit a hefty markup on their products,This can be evidenced in Madmax's sale link on pg,5,Even when I asked my 80 year old mother what does it say when a $27,000 cable is on sale for $13,000 derived the obvious conclusion [they're definitely not selling at a loss and likely still making a substantial profit margin]
But when considering this is a niche market it probably needs a exuberant markup to survive at a corporate level,Even if they where offered at a more modest profit margin they're likely not moving a amount that would prove sustainable to a corporate environment

F1nut

The ideal power factor for real power transfer (i.e. power to do work like making a speaker produce sound) is 1 (one) not 0 (zero).

You are assuming a speaker is purely a resistive load, it's not. I'm surprised as an electrical engineer that you don't know that.

tonyb

xcapri79 wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

Theory is a necessity for understanding and serves as the basis for design and testing.
One has to have an idea about what one is doing, no?

Of coarse they do, if your building widgets, but audio isn't a widget and sound has too many variables to make it one.

Theory is relative in audio, it's the testing part that becomes pretentious because there is no basis for continuity, no baseline when it comes to hearing, no preference to meet all requirements.

That's the difference X, you want it to be one size fits all with charts and tests, doesn't work that way in subjective matters.

agfrost

Haven't had to use this one in a while. Not going to visit this cesspool of a thread often enough to make sure it gets posted right after its "inspiration", so you all can guess...

DarqueKnight

xcapri79 wrote: »

Who hears at 80 kHz, 166.25 kHz, and 338.75 kHz?
I don't think even your super hearing goes that high. I doubt Tonyb's does either. lol

xcapri79 wrote: »

What is the relevancy of a 338.75 kHz test to audio?

Due to the concept of subharmonics, frequencies above the range of human hearing can affect what is heard. For example, a fundamental tone at 100,000 Hz will have subharmonics (undertones) at 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, etc. of the fundamental or 50,000 Hz, 33,333 Hz, 25,000 Hz, 20,000 Hz, 16,667 Hz, and so on.

The first CD players sounded harsh because they used filters that cut off everything above 44.1 KHz. These "brick wall" filters introduced subharmonic noise into the audible frequency spectrum which caused harsh sound. The industry then moved to 8X oversampling filters (352.8 kHz), which moved the undertones of highest energy far outside the audio range.

xcapri79 wrote: »

The power factor of this network is then:

PF = cos(∠Zeq) = cos(90) = 0

xcapri79 wrote: »

Care to explain, "This is a very important result. It means that an ideal audio cable would have a power factor of 0?"

There is the Zero Power Factor (Potier) Method for calculating alternator performance characteristics:

http://www.learnelectrical.net/2015/06/zero-power-factor-zpf-method-potier-triangle-method-to-determine-voltage-regulation-alternator.html

Then there is the zero power factor concept with regard to cables and transmission lines:

"The power factor is by definition a dimensionless number between −1 and 1. When power factor is equal to 0, the energy flow is entirely reactive and stored energy in the load returns to the source on each cycle. When the power factor is 1, all the energy supplied by the source is consumed by the load. Power factors are usually stated as "leading" or "lagging" to show the sign of the phase angle. Capacitive loads are leading (current leads voltage), and inductive loads are lagging (current lags voltage).

If a purely resistive load is connected to a power supply, current and voltage will change polarity in step, the power factor will be unity (1), and the electrical energy flows in a single direction across the network in each cycle. Inductive loads such as transformers and motors (any type of wound coil) consume reactive power with current waveform lagging the voltage. Capacitive loads such as capacitor banks or buried cable generate reactive power with current phase leading the voltage. Both types of loads will absorb energy during part of the AC cycle, which is stored in the device's magnetic or electric field, only to return this energy back to the source during the rest of the cycle.

A negative power factor (0 to -1) can result from returning power to the source, such as in the case of a building fitted with solar panels when their power is not being fully utilised within the building and the surplus is fed back into the supply."

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

The theory expressed on MIT's website with regard to cable zero power factor is in agreement with the theory I cited above, and is in agreement with cable noise theory regarding the abatement of spurious noise due to cable dielectric absorption.

xcapri79 wrote: »

Theory is a necessity for understanding and serves as the basis for design and testing.

Agreed. Come back and discuss once you have attained a better understanding of zero power factor theory, a concept which you obviously were unaware of. Since you have a BS degree in electrical engineering, I assume gaining an understanding of the concept will be trivial for you.

xcapri79 wrote: »

One has to have an idea about what one is doing, no?

Agreed again. I would also add "one should practice what they preach" to that.

ZLTFUL

I tried listening to my amp with an oscilloscope instead of speakers. I couldn't hear a difference in any cables...come to think about it, that is clearly the argument that X uses..."I couldn't hear a difference using measuring instruments, so obviously, there is no difference."

The part he leaves out is that he was trying to listen to the scope and not the speakers.
Mystery solved as to why x is so unbelievably obtuse!

Use your ears, X...the music will sound MUCH better.

[Deleted User]

Can't we all just get along and buy wireless speakers?
I'm beginning to hate MIT and Emotiva.

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote: »

The ideal power factor for real power transfer (i.e. power to do work like making a speaker produce sound) is 1 (one) not 0 (zero).

You are assuming a speaker is purely a resistive load, it's not. I'm surprised as an electrical engineer that you don't know that.

X only presents partial theory that appears to agree with his agenda...just like the Roger Russell and Audioholics websites.

F1nut

Let's put some perspective on the matter. The provided link lists the world's most expensive gear. There are different categories, this one is for speakers.

http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.php

So, is a pair of million dollar speakers that much better than a thousand dollar pair to justify the price? I don't know, but I'd sure like to hear them.

You see X, that's the difference between my open mind and your closed one.

[Deleted User]

Nothing like a good cables don't matter or
CD vs. vinyl vs. media player debate.

The real suckers are those that buy those expensive power cables.
It's their money but whewww. When I was a kid I wouldn't listen
to TV commercials for fear of being brainwashed. I won't try
anything other than stock cables from the manufacturer for the
same reason.

F1nut

Nothing personal, but that's a foolish way to think.

polrbehr

rednedtugent wrote: »

Nothing like a good cables don't matter or
CD vs. vinyl vs. media player debate.

The real suckers are those that buy those expensive power cables.
It's their money but whewww. When I was a kid I wouldn't listen
to TV commercials for fear of being brainwashed. I won't try
anything other than stock cables from the manufacturer for the
same reason.

Please don't tell us you wore tinfoil hats too

Sorry man, just bustin' them a little, but subliminal advertising is multi-media, sight and sound, so turning the volume down only halved your exposure. Google the word
tachistoscope...

[Deleted User]

"Sorry man, just bustin' them a little, but subliminal advertising is multi-media, sight and sound, so turning the volume down only halved your exposure. Google the word
tachistoscope..."

I did frequent the drive-in theater...

[Deleted User]

http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.php

Imagine having your wife help you pick out a pair of these speakers
(even the color) and then going over to your friends house and
HIS wife helped him pick out the exact same ones, even the color.

polrbehr

"rednedtugent wrote: »

I did frequent the drive-in theater...

I'm sure you did.
Because they wanted you to.
I heard that theaters were the original testing ground for those types of ads,
but who knows? I think it's nonsense myself.

Gotta run, for some reason I feel like having a Pepsi???

mhardy6647

I have nothing to add to this thread, but I was just thinking -- I, also, have adjustable articulation. Beer works quite well -- three or four, and I would start slurrin' pretty good.

lightman1

Yeah! Who doesn't like fried flounder??!!
Deeeeeelish!

gudnoyez

agfrost wrote: »

Haven't had to use this one in a while. Not going to visit this cesspool of a thread often enough to make sure it gets posted right after its "inspiration", so you all can guess...

Ok let me see a picture of what appears to be dew on the grass, some one shhh' ing and a bag. I have been up all night trying to think this out can't seem to figure wait a minute it just came to me. Ha ha ha, I bet this is directed towards a certain non believing individual this is to funny.

mrbiron

I thought it meant

Dew+finger+brown paper bags.......

mhardy6647

You know, if you hadn't posted the above, I wouldn't have invested the incremental effort to decode the three images (which are sort of like a rebus, but without any letters, just pictures, come to think of it).

Three images -> three syllables to evoke two syllable word (sometimes writ as two words).

https://youtu.be/K_b3oPslctA

tonyb

nbrowser wrote: »

[.... but the sum is worth more than the parts individually imho. There's my contribution to this argument.

....and a solid opinion that is.

vmaxer

I didn't get it till now, funny.

halo71

rednedtugent wrote:

Can't we all just get along and buy wireless speakers?

Pfffttt....then people would be arguing over the purity of the air in the room. And how it relates to the best sound. We'd be seeing $100k air purifiers from MIT.

msg

this forum needs an official KennethSwauger appreciation day. some of the stuff you guys come up with to juuust barely skirt the rules has me dyin' laughing. and I'm sure Ken coming close to cursing.

F1nut

I'm offended. Don't ask why, I just am.