New MIT cables, adjustable articulation!
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afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
For the cheapskates out there here is a more affordable alternative, of course its a demo piece but you can't have everything for peanuts. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1MIMSHD120&utm_source=Email+Newsletters&utm_campaign=04ad9eca47-Clearance_Newsletter_5_20_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2d471df912-04ad9eca47-77595689Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
So, the best response you've got to my question is to LOL a bunch of posts?
It is how Roger Russell told him to respond.
Thanks Jesse for clearing some of this up for me. I understood how interconnects could be used to assist with impedance matching and have heard first hand the differences in my system. I get what guys like Russell are trying to say but even Russell talks about how differences in any part of the chain can have subtle effects on wire requirements and interactions.
X keeps asking for measurements that I submit already exist. Look at all of the graphs posted by DarqueKnight to document before and after results when he makes changes to his system. How many REW graphs have been posted to record differences in things like bi-amp jumpers?
I could see using cables like these as a tool to determine the values needed to build perfectly tuned cables for an individuals system. A customer who has more money than I do contacts MIT for custom speaker cables. After deposits have been made MIT sends out something like these as analsys cables. Place the cables into the system for acoustic measurement making adjustments until the paramaters of the cables are percect for the individual system. Once the diagnostic testing is completed and any necessary adjustments have been determined MIT could then whip up network boxes tailored to the customers needs.
I could see this as being more markatable than $80,000 speaker cables.
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I always get a kick out of the ignorant people who "listen" to music using measuring equipment.
I don't know about them, but *I* listen to music with my ears.
I also know that Ray, while providing scope grabs, always uses his ears as the final judge in a modification or upgrade.
To me, what we *HEAR* means far more than what a piece of electronic machinery shows. Why? Because out of all of the high end measuring devices, none of them are as dynamic at processing music as my own ears and brain.
So, x, keep on with your dead horse beating soap box thumping ego trip. I will keep on listening to the music.
If its analog I only listen to it through a scope. I dont even use speakers or headphones. That is the "scientific" way to listen to music.
If its digital I watch it on my TV as 1's and 0's. So its a pure and realistic representation of the data.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »If its analog I only listen to it through a scope. I dont even use speakers or headphones. That is the "scientific" way to listen to music.
If its digital I watch it on my TV as 1's and 0's. So its a pure and realistic representation of the data.
You're full of ****.....Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
littlewoodboats wrote: »I could see using cables like these as a tool to determine the values needed to build perfectly tuned cables for an individuals system. A customer who has more money than I do contacts MIT for custom speaker cables. After deposits have been made MIT sends out something like these as analsys cables. Place the cables into the system for acoustic measurement making adjustments until the paramaters of the cables are percect for the individual system. Once the diagnostic testing is completed and any necessary adjustments have been determined MIT could then whip up network boxes tailored to the customers needs.
I could see this as being more markatable than $80,000 speaker cables.
Very insightful, I like it!Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not"
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
I'm not sure it is completely subjective. Afterall, if there is continuous noise in the background or noise embeded within the music presentation most can objectively identify it, at least with a little help from someone with a trained ear.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Just because there is noise doesn't mean it's bad, right? Tubes supposedly add noise, some people like them, some people don't it's a subjective call.
Objectively there is noise, but ones subjective evaluation determines if the noise is an enhancement of detriment.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Yeah, but wouldn't you consider any real noise from a tube a bad thing, not saying you wouldn't forgive the noise to get some other quality. I mean, it either hisses, spits or whatever, or doesn't.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
I am not talking about obvious parts that are possibly damaged or broken. Anything that deviates from the original signal is considered distortion or noise.
Some people like 3rd harmonic distortion or 2nd harmonic distortion, surface noise on LP's, heavy negative feedback, etc. That's the subjective part. What's your "flavor" so to speak.
Of course you can objectively call out and obvious flaw in playback by defect. But that's not what that statement is about at all.
It all comes down to the fact that audio components can measure poorly and sound great or they can measure superbly and sound terrible.
You can have an amp that has high even order distortion, low damping factor and it subjectively it sounds great to certain people. Conversely you could have an amp with low odd order distortion (created by heavy negative feedback), high damping and it could subjectively sound terrible to some people.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Its funny though, I've never had an experience while listening with another person in which they thought something sounded bad while I thought it sounded good. I've seen it go the other way where one person had not heard better and thought it sounded good, but I didn't.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Let's not use the word "bad", but different. But then again it's all subjective (obviously to point) what sounds good or bad or different."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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Its funny though, I've never had an experience while listening with another person in which they thought something sounded bad while I thought it sounded good. I've seen it go the other way where one person had not heard better and thought it sounded good, but I didn't.
I guess the written word isn't getting my entire point across. I've heard amps that sound very dry and robotic to me vs. amps which I like which are more liquid, real, ethereal sounding. To me (subjectively) dry robotic amp just doesn't cut it. Does that fall in the category of "bad"? No, just a difference in preference based on my subjective impression. Some may not hear a difference, some may hear a difference and not care.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Can't converse about the topic so you flip it to politics?
#1... You owe this forum an apology
#2... This thread needs more cowbell.Post edited by nooshinjohn onThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
WTH does the national debt have to do with how cables sound? Wow you really are off the "deep" end.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
That's a new one on me. Speaker cables and politics. Musta got off in the bottle early.--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
$80K cables would have never happened in Reagans era.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
The always attacked Emo at least doesn't produce such nonsense, so there is no need to justify them.
And yet you do justify them, time and time again.In fact, they have produced detailed specs, tests and photos of their many products so it shows significant ignorance of the facts to even suggest asking for proof from them.
So, where are the scope measurements? Where are the properly conducted repeatable listening tests? I mean, YOU are the one always asking for proof, so produce it.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Cable subsidies for all the underprivileged!!!!! Yeah!
Maybe install little solar pannels on top of the network boxes for a green tax credit and rebate. -
I heard MIT is now accepting public assistance cards at check out"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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nooshinjohn wrote: »Can't converse about the topic so you flip it to politics?
#1... You owe this forum an apology
#2... This thread needs more cowbell.
Don't hold your breath on #1.
LOL
So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
^^^ You should have circled the drain here a long time ago....The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
So we are getting free Obama Cables?JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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^^^
2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Welcome to Capitalism! I think there's a old adage that goes something like "sell too low it wont go,price it high and they'll give it a try"
That said I think MIT has alot of company reputation riding on the Audiophile community's acceptance of this product's performance and price.If its not received as a worthy expenditure it may lead to a sales drop by persuading others into thinking that they aggressively overprice their products in general
Anyway if anyone wants to try to understand a somewhat detailed analysis of what MIT means to achieve with this and their other high ended lines you can hear it directly from Bruce Brisson[CEO] Gavin Fish and Tony Weber at- RMAF11 High End Cable at You Tube
RMAF10 The Snake Pit is also a good watch on the subject of cable designPost edited by befuddle on -
Too many of you have your panties all bunched up. $80K is pocket change to millions of people. Even if only 1% of a million buy these, that is $800 million in sales. I doubt if parts and labor exceed 25% of list price, so that is good profit for MIT. But who pays list for MIT cables?
You all are forgetting MIT drastically over prices list so that their dealers can give big, big discounts. Now everyone is happy, the customer thinks they got a great deal, the dealer makes a profit, and so does MIT.
The important point has already been made. Who cares how people spend their money.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I've said this before, If you think mark up on cables is bad... Just look at the automotive industry (which I've worked in for about 12 years, including high end). I've seen 10 dollar parts sell for 120. Maybe we should start ragging on people for spending obscene amounts fixing their p.o.s. cars too?2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
I've said this before, If you think mark up on cables is bad... Just look at the automotive industry (which I've worked in for about 12 years, including high end). I've seen 10 dollar parts sell for 120. Maybe we should start ragging on people for spending obscene amounts fixing their p.o.s. cars too?
Or installing $12K car stereo in a $10k car, or spending $10k,20,$30K a year hitting a stupd white ball across the grass2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Too many of you have your panties all bunched up. $80K is pocket change to millions of people. Even if only 1% of a million buy these, that is $800 million in sales. I doubt if parts and labor exceed 25% of list price, so that is good profit for MIT. But who pays list for MIT cables?
You all are forgetting MIT drastically over prices list so that their dealers can give big, big discounts. Now everyone is happy, the customer thinks they got a great deal, the dealer makes a profit, and so does MIT.
The important point has already been made. Who cares how people spend their money.
True enough. But I tell ya what, if MIT hits $800 million in sales this year across all their cables, I'll buy you a set of these. I bet dollars to donuts they've not done $800 million in sales since their inception in 2000. So we're talking a product that appeals to the creme de la creme financially, which is what a statement product should do.
I also bet that parts and labor don't exceed 10% of the list price, and I bet I'm being naive in estimating that high. No one is doubting that MIT will make a killing off of these if they sell a moderate amount. But let's be real bout the size of the market,it's tiny.
What people did doubt, as far as I can tell, is that customers would "think they got a great deal." That's why some have expressed a lack of faith.
What is odd to me so far is that everyone defends this sort of audiophile equipment, be in super high end speakers, amps, or cables by saying that you have to judge by your ears. I get that.
But then you have many in this thread wholeheartedly defending cables pushing the already expansive pricing boundaries of the market without having ever heard them, much less a new cable/old cable comparison, which seems like a reasonable way to test things subjectively. I know MIT has a stellar reputation here, but even great companies put out bad/bad-value products, especially when having to justify a new price point. I am not sure why MIT gets the benefit of the doubt.
I should stipulate that I haven't heard the cables either, so I am in no way trying to judge them here. MIT's strategy does make sense. But when people slip the word "value" in there, I twinge a bit. To know that at this point you'd either have to have heard the cables, not care about the traditional definition of value (possible), or just assume that these cables are almost twice as nice as anything else out there, with only marketing hype to stand on.