Speaker cable fable!

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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited September 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    mocking, and patronizing and downright insulting, all the while avoiding a simple question.

    and you're better? You do the same thing. You have insulted people based upon a first post regarding an amp, etc.

    I'm sick and tired of you acting like everyone is out to get you, you do it to yourself. Stop pretending you are above everyone and come down to the real world for once.

    We came to polk and stayed at this site for a reason. If you don't like the responses or the members you are free to leave and enjoy the Audio Critic if you think that is what you like.

    If you try it and like it, cool, you made your own opinion.

    If you read it in a book and think its the truth without trying, you have no experience and I'm sorry, even though you like science, you would never be taken seriously if you didn't try something out for yourself.

    "You see members of the board, I read in the book about the String Theory. Even though I have no clue really anything about it as I just got out of basic chem, I read about it, so it must make me an expert on the topic. So you might have 20 years doing this, but you know, I'm smarter, I got a GED. You have a PhD? Who cares, I didn't see it in the book, so it doesn't matter."
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    naturallight wrote: »
    H9..I mean really....when I say "MAKE" it means exactly that...Physically MAKE the cable from ground Zero. These people don't have hugh factory's to do this. What is it you don't get?

    I did not imply or state they were useing bad copper or anything of the like, nore that they didn't have a clue.....your commet dosen't make sence.

    I thought that was given that Kimber Kable doesn't mine, haul, refine, and manufacture copper or silver. Why would they when they can get whatever specification they need from someone whos entire gig is to do this.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,463
    edited September 2012
    naturallight wrote: »
    H9..I mean really....when I say "MAKE" it means exactly that...Physically MAKE the cable from ground Zero. These people don't have hugh factory's to do this. What is it you don't get?

    I did not imply or state they were useing bad copper or anything of the like, nore that they didn't have a clue.....your commet dosen't make sence.

    Your spelling is horrible.:eek: :cheesygrin:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    Well..I "thought" thats what i was trying to get across.... These companies go to someone like Belden...tell them what config they want in the cable, then Belden makes the base cable for them...Did that not come out as clear??
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    naturallight wrote: »
    Well..I "thought" thats what i was trying to get across.... These companies go to someone like Belden...tell them what config they want in the cable, then Belden makes the base cable for them...Did that not come out as clear??

    Belden doesn't make copper from scratch either. And no, someone like MIT isn't going to Belden for their copper. They are buying from the source just like Belden is. Where do you people pull stuff from?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    Nice back pedal....of course Belden dose not make there own copper. But no use in talking about it..you are the all knowing. Maybe if you worked with cable companies for 20 years, you may have a clue...but again..you just seem to know everything...so lets drop it.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    Where do you see a back peddle in my post?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited September 2012
    I think (my opinion ONLY) that cabe topology/design is probably far more important than where the copper came from. It's toplogy that will combat noise interference, impedance, capacitance, etc; issues at the forefront of good cable design.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • drselect
    drselect Posts: 664
    edited September 2012
    H9 I am thinking of a number between 1 and 1000 can you tell what it is?
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  • drselect
    drselect Posts: 664
    edited September 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    Would you cut these idiotic propositions already? I haven't been around the planet myself, yet i am confident it is spherical.

    there is one very important moment here that demonstrates why exotic cables are a ripoff. If they perform better than your average copper wire, then something bad must happen to the signal once it enters the copper wire. YES OR NO! Will someone have the balls to answer this?
    Yes
    Yeah for me I was always told I never had a pair so know I got some.
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  • drselect
    drselect Posts: 664
    edited September 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    Would you cut these idiotic propositions already? I haven't been around the planet myself, yet i am confident it is spherical.

    there is one very important moment here that demonstrates why exotic cables are a ripoff. If they perform better than your average copper wire, then something bad must happen to the signal once it enters the copper wire. YES OR NO! Will someone have the balls to answer this?

    No.
    Figured I pick up an extra set while I was at it.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited September 2012
    We should set up a wrestling ring at Polkfest.
    Cable cage matches!!!
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited September 2012
    Look fellas here is the deal.

    Cable's dont make a difference

    I read it on the internet from some guy who I dont know from Adam, but I can tell he knows his stuff. :biggrin: There are a bunch of other guys who refuse to try different cables to test it out but they obviously know they dont make a difference either.



    Raveneli: SIGN UP FOR THE FRIGGIN MIT DEMO. THEN YOU CAN TALK. ITS FRIGGIN THE COST OF SHIPPING TO TRY 2K CABLES. We all know you wont because that might prove you wrong. And heaven forbid you try something if someone on the internet said its pointless

    P.S. I also read on the internet that aliens are among us, Elvis and Tu Pac aren't dead. So those gotta be true too :razz:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited September 2012
    While the MIT cables are great, they are not going to turn average gear into good gear. Or improve anyone's hearing. Or teach anyone how to actually listen to music. So, the trolls will try the demo, say thay cannot hear anything, and keep on trolling while saying they tried MIT cables and heard no difference. :rolleyes:
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • D_M
    D_M Posts: 175
    edited September 2012
    BlueFox wrote: »
    While the MIT cables are great, they are not going to turn average gear into good gear. Or improve anyone's hearing. Or teach anyone how to actually listen to music. So, the trolls will try the demo, say thay cannot hear anything, and keep on trolling while saying they tried MIT cables and heard no difference. :rolleyes:


    I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that's probably where the issue is for some people. Now you feel like your chasing your tail. The better cables, only work with better equipment is tough to swallow. As novice, we don't understand the interactions that our upstream sources have on the sound before the speaker cable. Others can speak for themselves, but it would be nice to know a recommended operating range for source components.
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    Well i do have to say, thats about the biggest egotistical statement i have ever heard. Now you want to teach me "HOW" to listen to music...LMAO I have been a musician since i was 16, i'm now 60. I play by ear and all i have to do is hear the song once or twice and i can play it. I have EQ'd sound setups for many bands, been in the studio and EQ'd CD's.....and you want to tell me how to listen to music. LMAO



    What makes you the person that thinks his ears are better then anybody Else's?????



    This is in truth a completely useless post and should be deleted!!!!
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited September 2012
    Still beating our heads against the wall, are we?

    LOL.......
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    BlueFox wrote: »
    While the MIT cables are great, they are not going to turn average gear into good gear. Or improve anyone's hearing. Or teach anyone how to actually listen to music. So, the trolls will try the demo, say thay cannot hear anything, and keep on trolling while saying they tried MIT cables and heard no difference. :rolleyes:

    Very few, if any, of the trolls here have ever listened to more than zip cord, yet they have it all figured out. Naturallight lighten up I don't think you are said troll and the reference bluefox made about teaching one how to listen to music was a general statement. Why did you take it so personally? Also, just because you are a musiciam doesn't make you an automatic expert on how to listen critically. In my experience with musician friends, they are horrible listeners when it comes to critical listening. They listen more for composition and melody and structure rather than for timbre, tone soundstage and accurate reproduction. Just in my small slice of experience.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited September 2012
    naturallight wrote: »
    Well i do have to say, thats about the biggest egotistical statement i have ever heard. Now you want to teach me "HOW" to listen to music...LMAO I have been a musician since i was 16, i'm now 60. I play by ear and all i have to do is hear the song once or twice and i can play it. I have EQ'd sound setups for many bands, been in the studio and EQ'd CD's.....and you want to tell me how to listen to music. LMAO



    What makes you the person that thinks his ears are better then anybody Else's?????



    This is in truth a completely useless post and should be deleted!!!!

    Read DarkKnights posting on how to listen, and read his paper on the subject. I would not be so fast to judge whether a post is useless or not.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited September 2012
    Maybe I will go to Polk Fest this weekend. To sell boxing gloves!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,685
    edited September 2012
    just one more page until the lock and then mdaudioguy wins the booby prize:eek:
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    Yeah...that statement got my goat....Yes i do have to agree, some of the other musicains...well, could not EQ anything to save there butts, which is why i did much everything.

    But in the end of this "Speaker wire" deal.....it's still in the ear of the guy buying it....nothing more.
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    Blue fox..I don't need to read somebodys paper on how to listen to music. I can tell you weather the guy is useing an old strat vs a new one or the pickups that he's useing,(which could be an old strat with new pups)to a Marshall vs a Mesa..what type of keys somebody is useing (in or around the general .not brand type)... I don't need to read his take on how i should I listen to music.
    I was probably playing it long before he was born.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited September 2012
    ravaneli wrote: »
    can someone of the more intelligent gentlemen here explain to what could the difference between a average run of the mill copper cable of proper thickness and 300 $ cable be attributed? How do you explain this to yourself? Does the regular copper wire distort the signal in any way or what? I would like to hear an explanation that does not involve magic.
    Or soul, H9.

    At this point, you might have more confidence in answers you would receive from members of a DIY audio forum, rather than an audiophile forum such as Club Polk. You may not be aware that the high performance audio cable market grew out of the efforts of DIY audio enthusiasts who were searching for cost effective higher performance wire solutions for audio applications. This thread presents a good overview:
    Overview-Of-Premium-Cable-History

    After reading the above thread, I suggest spending some time with DIY audio forum members who have extensive experience designing, building, measuring and evaluating self-made cables. The insights gained from people who have no financial incentive to make wild claims about cable performance, yet who have found substantial performance differences in cables, might be enlightening.

    After spending some time with the DIY community, I suggest reviewing the technical information of Cable manufacturers, such as AudioQuest and MIT, who offer cables over a wide range of build qualities and performance levels. Email inquiries regarding performance differences of cables at different price points might be helpful. You might also want to discuss your audio system configuration and your audio performance goals and try a few different cables in your audio system to see if there is any audible benefit.

    After you have done all of the above, you will be ready to participate in a truly meaningful discussion on the topic.

    Remember, Einstein was right when he said:
    "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."

    Hope this helps.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • naturallight
    naturallight Posts: 689
    edited September 2012
    The problem with speaker cable..is what is it really giving you..the real "accurate" production of the music..or not. Now if you know what a strat sounds like with X pups..well then it should sound the same.(but of course it depends on your speakers and other equipment) If it dose not..well then..not so great.
    If the strat sounds ok..but the vocal is too bright for what it should be....on that speaker cable..well then, it's not that great.

    It's not a yeah a 1 K speaker cable is going to make your life happy....it could sound like trash. Again..it's all in the ear of the person buy it, his equipment...and what HE persives as good sound..really nothing more. So really this post is pretty much useless.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited September 2012
    Dude, spel chek, really.....
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    gdb wrote: »
    Dude, spel chek, really.....

    And coherence too. String some thoughts together that actually make sense, mostly just gibberish and misc rambling.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited September 2012
    Speakers always have been, and always should be the MAIN focus.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    The main focus should be building a system with good synergy. I don't 100% agree with focusing on a singular part of the entire system amd making it great while other area's suffer.

    The whole is only as good as the sum of its parts. Obviously I'm not saying to spend a lot on cables if you own Pioneer speakers. I'm just saying all parts are important and one shouldn't go balls to the wall in one area to skimp in another.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,215
    edited September 2012
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Speakers always have been, and always should be the MAIN focus.

    Also, that's because you've had good gear to back them up. Would you suggest someone with an entry level receiver and a $60 cdplayer, zip cord and regular I/C's to get the same woodie you do listening to the Harbeth's?

    I don't think you would. I somewhat agree that if your gear is already pretty good that the next bang might come from better speakers. But to say that's always the case? I don't agree with always.

    My 5B's have never sounded better after upgrading much of the gear and cables. It's still about system synergy more than a singular component making it pop.

    Just my .02c
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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