Speaker cable fable!

transmaster

ravaneli wrote: »

can someone of the more intelligent gentlemen here explain to what could the difference between a average run of the mill copper cable of proper thickness and 300 $ cable be attributed? How do you explain this to yourself? Does the regular copper wire distort the signal in any way or what? I would like to hear an explanation that does not involve magic.
Or soul, H9.

Read what Kurt Denke, the owner of Blue Jeans Cable,
has to say on the matter. BJC is my source of cables, and interconnects,
Yes good cable does make a different but not in the way some some of these
companies would have you believe. but you do not have to pay a rip-off price to get it.
The rip offs in this market are astounding.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/do-you-get-what-you-pay-for.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/exoticmaterials.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/doeswirematter.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/what-does-wire-gage-mean.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whatwiredoes.htm
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/signalconnector.htm

F1nut

Ken, please delete this worthless thread.

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

Ken, please delete this worthless thread.

Best thing said in this thread.

tonyb

Amen to the last 2 posts.

nspindel

Please let it happen.

ravaneli

nspindel wrote: »

Resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Shielding. Variance at different frequencies. Stranded vs. solid. Twist ratios. These things all matter and do affect the sound. Easiest example - compare copper and silver cables. If you can't hear a difference, go see an ear doctor. And I'm not trying to say that to insult you. The difference is just that obvious to me. I swapped copper interconnects for silver, from the same manufacturer. The silver was intensely more revealing. But so shrill on female vocals that they hurt my ears. I had to go back to copper. Then listened to stranded silver from a different manufacturer, and they were gorgeous. To so many of us, cables can bring out such obvious differences in sound, verifiable in dbx testing, that when people come and proclaim as fact that cables don't make a difference, it's an insult. And generally they back it up with statements like "I couldn't hear a difference" or "you're just plugging it into Romex". If that's your thing, great. Congratulations, you get to spend less money than me. I'm jealous. But don't tell me that cables don't make a difference, as of it's a fact just because someone doesn't hear it. Other people do.

bla bla bla. can you wrap it up? if silver cable is better than copper, that is because the copper cable distorts the signal, and the silver does not? Is that it? What about pure gold cable? is that gona kick the living crap out of silver?

nspindel

ravaneli wrote: »

bla bla bla. can you wrap it up? if silver cable is better than copper, that is because the copper cable distorts the signal, and the silver does not? Is that it? What about pure gold cable? is that gona kick the living crap out of silver?

Ok then. You've just proven yourself not worth my time either.

I'm with Jesse, may this thread be laid to rest.

onebadchad

WOW, touchy subject.. I felt like a little boy getting kicked on the stomach in the mud reading the last 3 pages, I said in my first post it was my opinion and two cents worth. Guess a Forum isnt about discussion but just demeaning someone that doesnt agree. I appreciate the input from those who did. I understand resistance, ohms law, current,conductance and shielding. I was never talking about .35 cent worth of speaker wire versus $2000 worth. Only that @ a point it doesnt get any better. In my ears anyhow. I am done with this read, learned my lesson the hard way. and for those of you who told me and others to go away and never post again, Well.. Ill go away when the moderators kick my off club polk forums for stating my opinion, and not because you do want to read what I have to say. I have been in many forums, JetBoating, Harley Davidson, Airplanes, Fishing, and many more, and have never got so much slack from the forum members. I am surely done with this thread and know better than state my opinion again on this forum. Good Luck to All

heiney9

Raviolli,

You ask for an informative explanation and when you get one (whether you believe or not) you mock and attack the explanation.

Why did you seriously ask? Just to bait someone and be a troll is what I think. You aren't the least bit interested in having an intelligent conversation even if you don't agree.

You are pretty much worthless here at CP.

H9

nspindel

I guess when you name the thread "speaker cable fable" followed with an exclamation point, it sets a tone for the discussion, doesn't it......

heiney9

onebadchad wrote: »

WOW, touchy subject..

You have been here long enough to know this.

I view you as an immature person and just when I thought you were going to be more than a salesman, you pull this crap. Back peddle all you want, you came out with an agenda, voiced it very explicitly, then tried to soften your stance. You don't have any experience in this subject to even be making hard blanket statements. Yet you did.

H9

steveinaz

Your "Hello Kitty CD Player" may not be the most revealing equipment. :razz: I'm kiddin' bro. Hey, at least you gave it a shot.

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

Raviolli,

You ask for an informative explanation and when you get one (whether you believe or not) you mock and attack the explanation.

Why did you seriously ask? Just to bait someone and be a troll is what I think. You aren't the least bit interested in having an intelligent conversation even if you don't agree.

You are pretty much worthless here at CP.

H9

These cable threads always become fly paper for the trolls, don't they......

bikezappa

Onebadchad

I had the same observation and conclusion as you did. It's just my opinion and I didn't do any double blind testing. But others have done blind testing and to my knowledge no one can tell the difference bewteen properly designed (thickness & connetctions) speaker cables.

Ohms law also predicts that the impedance of the speaker cables at audio frequencies is basically a DC circuit. That is very small impedance differences.

However I understand that other people may hear things different and they can do what ever they like and spend what ever money they want on their audio system. I have no ill will agaist them. But I'll never understand why they will try to discerdit and name call people who disagree. In my opinion if you sampled the average Joe less than 1% would hear any difference in speaker wire sound.

This forum is made up of a very select group of people that spend much time and money on audio equipment. They do not represent the average Joe.

I supose it's time to continue with the name calling......

zingo

onebadchad wrote: »

I absolutely cannot tell ANY difference between My Cheap 10 AWG speaker wire and Cheap Connectors than any other speaker wire..

Good day for you! You don't have to spend any money on cables. Audio is a personal journey to whatever sounds good to you, and you have the right to vote with your dollar. I'm just as happy for someone who pays big bucks for speaker cables and likes them, as some who borrows a pair, doesn't like them, and doesn't think about it again.

falconcry72

I saw the title of this thread and ignored it.... then I decided "what the hell" and read some of it. Why? Why did I do that? I can never get back this lost time! You owe me!

nspindel

It's like a car wreck on the side of the road. You have to look....

transmaster

:ntwrthy: Blue Jeans Cable :ntwrthy:

onebadchad

transmaster wrote: »

:ntwrthy: Blue Jeans Cable :ntwrthy:

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20011208-285/who-needs-expensive-audio-cables/

acmf74

There are WAY too many variations in systems to have an absolute answer in saying what sounds different/better/worse or no difference at all.

In my personal cable journey I found out there was a difference is sound. I started out with SC Analog I which were "good" then to the SC Analog II which were better. From there I strained to hear the difference in other cables (AQ,BELDEN). But when I went to MIT the improvement in sound was OBVIOUS. It appears some gear works better with different cables and other systems don’t add any value. But to white-label and say cables don’t do anything at all is just ignorant.

transmaster

Good cable does make a difference, it can make a huge difference. I object the the outrageous prices being charged for some of these cables. These outfits do not draw their own wire, to be sure some of it is custom made for them. The wholesale price of most of the stuff used to make these wires, interconnects can be found referencing the companies that manufacturer it when you add up the cost of what is used to assemble a given cable, you rapidly see just how huge the profits are on this stuff, if somebody wants to pay such prices fine. I would rather fork over the money for vintage speakers and electronics.

This is the last time I will have anything to say about this subject. I will leave such argument to others. and return to the RF world where I can look at a wave form on one of my "O" scopes, measure a transmission lines for it's parameters with various instruments in my radio shack. Radio Frequencies cannot be heard by a set of subjective ears. Back to breaking in My new RDO-194's.

cnh

Just woke up from my nap. I see we're still at it, above.

With a title like Cable Fable. I was hoping for something like a Grimm's Fairy Tale about silver cables that helped capture and tame the wild werewolves of Transylvania. Come on, let's have a REAL story, tale. None of this debate for and against garbage. That's not informative and we've done it a thousand times. Are there NO WRITERS among us??

I should add that I do use some silver wire interconnects on some NADs (sorry, but they work). And, surprisingly, my property is werewolf free!

Now on with the story.

The Little Cable that Could!

There was once a 98 lbs cable that had some sand kicked into its face by a Monster Cable who made off with his girlfriend. So the little cable that could started to train. He took courses at MIT, added a box to his behind and returned to the same beach and bounced ALL the Monster Cables off the shelves forever. Then married the girlfriend and not only did they live happily ever after but they had the best sound system in the land! The End!

Any smiles yet, or are we going to continue to bicker?


cnh

rebuy

Anyone have a pair of 6ft high quality speakers cables to give me? I'm to poor to buy some but I'll use them if you can spare them. :biggrin:

heiney9

acmf74 wrote: »

But to white-label and say cables don’t do anything at all is just ignorant.

Winner...winner...chicken dinner! No Raviolli for you!

H9

heiney9

transmaster wrote: »

Good cable does make a difference, it can make a huge difference. I object the the outrageous prices being charged for some of these cables. These outfits do not draw their own wire, to be sure some of it is custom made for them. The wholesale price of most of the stuff used to make these wires, interconnects can be found referencing the companies that manufacturer it when you add up the cost of what is used to assemble a given cable, you rapidly see just how huge the profits are on this stuff, if somebody wants to pay such prices fine. I would rather fork over the money for vintage speakers and electronics.

This is the last time I will have anything to say about this subject. I will leave such argument to others. and return to the RF world where I can look at a wave form on one of my "O" scopes, measure a transmission lines for it's parameters with various instruments in my radio shack. Radio Frequencies cannot be heard by a set of subjective ears. Back to breaking in My new RDO-194's.

Do you have any idea the R&D that goes into cables like MIT. Just factoring in raw material and assembly labor ONLY, is ignorant.

Not all cables are like MIT where there is an R&D aspect, so I suspect your rant might be somewhat true for some cable manufacturers. But I have always found (within rational limits) you get what you pay for.

$15 for Mono price speaker cable vs. $50 for Signal speaker cable......no contest the Mono is crap and isn't the highest grade or quality copper or connectors. For the extra money you get a purer grade of copper usually from the same strand and better connectors. That is just an off the top example. I'd gladly pay the extra for Signal Cable because you get what you pay for.

H9

ravaneli

heiney, i have a point, but first i want to pin one of you nobles that don't commint to any particular and verifiable point, and just keep repeating that expensive cables make a difference.

I am trying to simplify matters, so I ask you once again: to what should the difference be attributed! To the fact that copper cannot transfer the signal properly? Is there some change to the signal that happens inside the average copper cable, but does not happen in the exotic cables?

heiney9

Raviolli,

I am not going to engage you beyond suggesting you try it for yourself. No amount of internet reading is going to take the place of experience. I have suggested that to you before and you refuse to get the experience on your own.

If you want to do the internet reading thing, there is more information available that explains what you are trying to "pin" down. I suggest you read and experiment on your own. Nothing I or anyone else here says will ever convince you. We have a cable demo program, why you aren't participating is beyond me since you are SO genuinely interested.

H9

badchad

bikezappa wrote: »

Onebadchad

I had the same observation and conclusion as you did. It's just my opinion and I didn't do any double blind testing. But others have done blind testing and to my knowledge no one can tell the difference bewteen properly designed (thickness & connetctions) speaker cables..

To me, this is the key question: Has anyone ever studied this? Whether or not cables can make a difference would be a relatively easy thing to examine. Hell, I've done double blind studies before, I could even set it up!

heiney9

It's been done and the results posted and debated ad nausem right here on our own forum by Darqueknight. Look for his posts and get your read on. In fact he has written a peer reviewed journal piece about it.

This is ALL old, rehashed, recycled stuff that rears it's ugly head from noobs to the forum about twice a year.

Everyone asking the same questions over and over, get your read on as it's been covered 100's and 100's of times.

Yawn

H9

cstmar01

I like turtles.

and MIT.

and I'm still waiting for someone who's user name starts with R to acutally try something for once himself than give poor, or useless advice on something he has never done.