Speaker cable fable!
Comments
-
Did someone say "cables"? Sorry it's time for my nap! Carry on!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
It's a bit late to weigh in on this discussion, but I thought my experience with changing out speaker wire might be interesting. Using all the same sources, interconnects, preamp, and amps and speakers (unmodified SDA SRS 1.2s), I went from 15-years-old Monster 10 AWG cable, to Canare 4s11 cable in double-run biwire configuration, to Morrow SP7 cables in single biwire configuration.
With the old Monster cables, I enjoyed listening to virtually any music to my taste through the system, but found the overall performance "muddled" compared to what I heard in auditioning various systems in dealers' auditioning rooms. Not wanting to lay out the major expenditure required for high-end cables before I at least tried something that would confirm whether "wire" could make a difference, I bought the Canare cables as not-too-expensive experiment.
The difference was dramatic -- so dramatic that my wife said that she could no longer listen to the system at the volume level (moderate) at which I normally listen. The high frequency was to harsh, too fatiguing for her, although an audiophile friend and I thought the overall performance was to produce a very realistic and "authentic" experience -- broader and deeper sound stage, better positioning of instruments and vocalists, greater clarity and definition of instruments and vocals.
But, my wife has to listen or I do not listen -- or not as much or as loud as I prefer. Hence, I took a chance on the Morrow cables that come with a 60-days no-questions-asked return policy. The difference these cables made was palpable and positive. In short, everything was better, and my wife found the end result remarkable. My audiophile friend still preferred what he said was the more neutral and "authentic" Canare sound. But my wife was so pleased with the Morrow cables that it was not easy for me to persuade her to start marching down the modification path with the SDA SRS 1.2s.
My point in writing this is not that anybody should use any of the cables I mention. Rather, as doubtful as I was that speaker wire can make a difference -- except that it needs to be of high enough capacity easily to carry the load put on it -- I now believe that differences in speaker wire do produce different effects in performance.
This has to be among the most subjective of aesthetic judgements, but I am convinced that it is not mere sales and marketing hype. Where does it enter the realm of diminishing returns and hyperbole? I don't have clue.
I wish somebody with real technical expertise could come up with scientific measurements that at least expose the differences in performance between cables, even if differences do not necessarily mean improvements.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
Moose68Bash: Great story! It's a perfect "real world" example of how better cables made a difference to you, or in this case you and your wife.
I think a few others have echoed this sentiment on the forums, but if it sounds better to you, then what's the harm in buying it - it's your own freedom of choice (and money) after all!
I would hate to live in a country that forced all it's residents to strictly use simple 14 gauge wire. -
Wow! Thank you for that enlightening bit of insight! I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!!!! Not even after reading 100 other people who've been members for a month with 14 post counts make the same claim. Only problem is.... they do make a difference.
If you're going to make a claim like that, and state it as fact as if you're Sir Isaac Newton, at least learn to spell the word. It's "current". "Currant" is a berry.
What does 1 month and 14 post have to do with anything ?
I edited my post for spelling before your reply.
Big thick power cables make no difference, undersized cables do.
Maybe you should eat currants, I hear they lower blood pressure.Samsung PN64F8500, Parasound 2100 pre amp, Parasound 2250 v.2 amp, Parasound Zdac, OPPO 103D, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, Dual SVS PB 2000 -
If you're going to make a claim like that, and state it as fact as if you're Sir Isaac Newton, at least learn to spell the word. It's "current". "Currant" is a berry.
How dare you sir!
Currant Is not Just a berry, it's a Delicious berry!
To think, my delightful Thorens is settled is such a home...
Ps- I have not had any vinyl updates is quite some time, and I'm sure you've managed to blow lots more money in that time! -
What does 1 month and 14 post have to do with anything ?
It's because there are people on this forum who have been on here for years, analyzing this stuff to the most extreme nuance. Electrical engineers doing double blind tests, researching this topic with scopes and meters and countless hours of study. And then you come along with an epiphany that surely no one has thought of, that a power cable is plugged into Romex. Tell you what, professor, go jump on this thread argue your Romex point:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?98139-Questions-Regarding-Power-Cable-ABX-Test
Let me know how that goes for you.....Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Still no mention of the cables tried.....hmmm, if your memory isn't that good, how can the results be any good ?
Goes without saying that some may not have the hearing capacity to tell a difference too, be it so, doesn't make it the absolute truth for everyone. When people who are not into this hobby of ours say they can hear a difference, all that placebo B.S. goes out the window. If regular Home depot 14 ga is up your alley, roll with it. If you never hear what your missing, you'll never want more.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Upstatemax wrote: »How dare you sir!
Currant Is not Just a berry, it's a Delicious berry!
To think, my delightful Thorens is settled is such a home...
Ps- I have not had any vinyl updates is quite some time, and I'm sure you've managed to blow lots more money in that time!
Hey there Frank! It is a delicious berry, you're right. Drinking a pinot noir right now with some nice black currant in the finish :cheesygrin:
I was hoping my '67 original pressing Sgt. Pepper UK Mono that I won on eBay would show up in the mail today, but I have to wait until tomorrow I guess. Tracking shows it's at my post office:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180964695987?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Meanwhile I've been busy cleaning records with the VPI 16.5 machine I bought. What a difference a clean record makes! I'm also going to work on leveling the table, I bought a set of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380442483964?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Got my read on about spikes for a turntable, discovered that I should be using adhesive ones like these, so I don't need to go butchering the inside in order to install screw-in spikes.
How are you enjoying your new turntable?
Yeah, we're hijacking this thread. But it's just another cable argument, these threads always get hijacked!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Hijack away, anything is better than listening to lonely old men trying to justify there worthless overpriced speaker cables by insulting my intellegenceHello Kitty am/fm CD player
-
lonely old men, eh? Nice stereotyping...
-
Just realized that buy-it-now-or-best-offer listings on eBay don't reflect the best offer price. This guy was asking $80 for the Sgt. Pepper record. I offered $40 and he accepted. The completed listing still shows $80. $40 for that record is a great deal, it's worth a bit less because it doesn't have the original sleeve.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
It's because there are people on this forum who have been on here for years, analyzing this stuff to the most extreme nuance. Electrical engineers doing double blind tests, researching this topic with scopes and meters and countless hours of study. And then you come along with an epiphany that surely no one has thought of, that a power cable is plugged into Romex. Tell you what, professor, go jump on this thread argue your Romex point:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?98139-Questions-Regarding-Power-Cable-ABX-Test
Let me know how that goes for you.....
Wow ! I guess my 40 years in the electrical industry is all for not, I missed the most critical training of all...years at the polk forum. I've been involved with some of the most complex electrical projects in the US, I know about cables. For the last 10 years I've worked in the Medical industry, if you want to believe some magical 6 foot cord changes the world I'll say your a prime candidate for sugar pills.
My life ends on the 16th post, bye.Samsung PN64F8500, Parasound 2100 pre amp, Parasound 2250 v.2 amp, Parasound Zdac, OPPO 103D, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, Dual SVS PB 2000 -
onebadchad wrote: »Hijack away, anything is better than listening to lonely old men trying to justify there worthless overpriced speaker cables by insulting my intellegence
Jesus man.... and I was just beginning to like you. Then you toss insults because people don't agree with you? Nice touch man, and a great way to win the argument.:rolleyes:
The only FABLE being told here is that cables don't matter. Any doubt in my mind was erased as soon as my tube amps came to life.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
My life ends on the 16th post, bye.
Don't the the door get cha where the good Lord splitcha!...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Wow ! I guess my 40 years in the electrical industry is all for not, I missed the most critical training of all...years at the polk forum. I've been involved with some of the most complex electrical projects in the US, I know about cables. For the last 10 years I've worked in the Medical industry, if you want to believe some magical 6 foot cord changes the world I'll say your a prime candidate for sugar pills.
My life ends on the 16th post, bye.
NO!!!! DON'T GO!!!!! The Polk forum is filled with idiots and morons who know nothing without you around to teach us!!!!
Actually, never mind. Ciao.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
OBC - maybe with a little prodding you can get him to justify paying $84 for a scratchy old Beatles album. :cheesygrin: Funny how important those premium cables are when you're so excited to listen to the pops and crackles of your favorite audio medium. Even more elusive of rational thought is how these two tidbits somehow mesh with equal excitement about cleaning one's records with a cleaner that cost over $500 and makes as much noise while operating as to compete with a jet revving its engines about 50 yards away - yes, quite conducive to fine tuning highly discerning listening skills! :rolleyes:
Actually, I'm quite surprised he would buy anything from someone who's spelling (see ebay listing) is so atrocious! :eek: -
teekay0007 wrote: »OBC - maybe with a little prodding you can get him to justify paying $84 for a scratchy old Beatles album. :cheesygrin: Funny how important those premium cables are when you're so excited to listen to the pops and crackles of your favorite audio medium. Even more elusive of rational thought is how these two tidbits somehow mesh with equal excitement about cleaning one's records with a cleaner that cost over $500 and makes as much noise while operating as to compete with a jet revving its engines about 50 yards away - yes, quite conducive to fine tuning highly discerning listening skills! :rolleyes:
Actually, I'm quite surprised he would buy anything from someone who's spelling (see ebay listing) is so atrocious! :eek:
I have very few records that are anything but pristine in their sound, right down to ZERO hiss. It is obvious that you also are clueless about which you speak.
You also have zero time around jets... they are MUCH quieter than that.:eek: :razz:The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Big thick power cables make no difference, undersized cables do..
Speak only for yourself, since it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Now based on experience from using stock power cords, upgrading to Pangea power cords, and then upgrading to Shunyata power cords I can say they make a difference. It was if I added a much better component to my system because the sound improvement was that great. Of course, I actually tried cables versus reading something on the Internet, and then trolled my "knowledge" (or lack of) on a new forum.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Wow ! I guess my 40 years in the electrical industry is all for not, I missed the most critical training of all...years at the polk forum. I've been involved with some of the most complex electrical projects in the US, I know about cables. For the last 10 years I've worked in the Medical industry, if you want to believe some magical 6 foot cord changes the world I'll say your a prime candidate for sugar pills.
My life ends on the 16th post, bye.
All for naught. Kind of like these cable arguments.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
Double post has got the best of me.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
teekay0007 wrote: »OBC - maybe with a little prodding you can get him to justify paying $84 for a scratchy old Beatles album. :cheesygrin: Funny how important those premium cables are when you're so excited to listen to the pops and crackles of your favorite audio medium. Even more elusive of rational thought is how these two tidbits somehow mesh with equal excitement about cleaning one's records with a cleaner that cost over $500 and makes as much noise while operating as to compete with a jet revving its engines about 50 yards away - yes, quite conducive to fine tuning highly discerning listening skills! :rolleyes:
Actually, I'm quite surprised he would buy anything from someone who's spelling (see ebay listing) is so atrocious! :eek:
Actually, if you did a bit more reading and a bit less talking out of your ****, you'd have seen that I spent half that amount on the record. And if you don't think an original UK pressing of Sgt. Pepper is worth $40, then you're not worth my time.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
teekay0007 wrote: »OBC - maybe with a little prodding you can get him to justify paying $84 for a scratchy old Beatles album. :cheesygrin: Funny how important those premium cables are when you're so excited to listen to the pops and crackles of your favorite audio medium. Even more elusive of rational thought is how these two tidbits somehow mesh with equal excitement about cleaning one's records with a cleaner that cost over $500 and makes as much noise while operating as to compete with a jet revving its engines about 50 yards away - yes, quite conducive to fine tuning highly discerning listening skills! :rolleyes:
Actually, I'm quite surprised he would buy anything from someone who's spelling (see ebay listing) is so atrocious! :eek:
Spoken like someone who has never really listened to a good vinyl system.
I guess the reason that vinyl is making such a comeback is because it sucks so much... -
Hey there Frank! It is a delicious berry, you're right. Drinking a pinot noir right now with some nice black currant in the finish :cheesygrin:
I was hoping my '67 original pressing Sgt. Pepper UK Mono that I won on eBay would show up in the mail today, but I have to wait until tomorrow I guess. Tracking shows it's at my post office:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180964695987?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Meanwhile I've been busy cleaning records with the VPI 16.5 machine I bought. What a difference a clean record makes! I'm also going to work on leveling the table, I bought a set of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380442483964?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Got my read on about spikes for a turntable, discovered that I should be using adhesive ones like these, so I don't need to go butchering the inside in order to install screw-in spikes.
How are you enjoying your new turntable?
Yeah, we're hijacking this thread. But it's just another cable argument, these threads always get hijacked!
Nice score on the record!
I love the new Pro-Ject. Has a wonderful soundstage and the bottom end is very thick (not boomy though). I think I'll be looking for an acrylic platter and speed box for the holidays! I'm also trying to figure out if some silver based interconnects would be good for my vinyl duties ( I mentioned cables so it's not a full thread jack). -
nooshinjohn wrote: »I have very few records that are anything but pristine in their sound, right down to ZERO hiss. It is obvious that you also are clueless about which you speak.
Wasn't speaking of your albums, noosh (silly goose), so to say I'm the clueless one is hogwash! Right in the ebay listing that you apparently didn't read that HE links in his post, it describes an album that's far from pristine. And, if anyone cares to hear a sampling of the record cleaning machine doing its thing, here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PASpWVRK4Q. Wow! That looks like a good time! :eek: And to think I could have instead listened to my CD (in all its crystal clarity!) that's NEVER been cleaned and has NO crackles, pops, hisses, etc. -
DAMN! Why didn't I think to just get the cd??? The things I'm learning on this thread tonight.....Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
I'm actually loving all this vinyl talk! I've been DJing as a hobby for the past 12 years on two Technics 1200s with Ortofon needles and the 650 dusty records in my living room.
The extent of "cleaning" that goes on before playing one is a quick wipe with a microfiber cloth, if I can be bothered. Even so, I can still appreciate the unmistakable punchy warm sound of a high quality pressing.
Would love to be able to hear what some of my records would sound like after being properly cleaned and spun on a real belt drive "listening turntable". Any vinyl enthusiasts in the bay area want to enlighten me? -
The faithful will not have their faith shaken, regardless of what can (or cannot) be proven.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
DAMN! Why didn't I think to just get the cd??? The things I'm learning on this thread tonight.....
"STICK AROUND, YOU'RE LIKELY TO LEARN A LOT!" Speaking loudly there since I know you've been cleaning your records tonight and your hearing is probably a little damaged by the gaudawful noise that thing makes! :biggrin: Hopefully, it's only a temporary issue. -
can someone of the more intelligent gentlemen here explain to what could the difference between a average run of the mill copper cable of proper thickness and 300 $ cable be attributed? How do you explain this to yourself? Does the regular copper wire distort the signal in any way or what? I would like to hear an explanation that does not involve magic.
Or soul, H9.I have found that tube based computers provide the best sound quality. ENIAC and MANIAC I offer a smooth, well defined and articulated sound unmatched by the current silicon based CPUs.
jeremymarcinko wrote: »But as in all things your perception is your reality. -
Resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Shielding. Variance at different frequencies. Stranded vs. solid. Twist ratios. These things all matter and do affect the sound. Easiest example - compare copper and silver cables. If you can't hear a difference, go see an ear doctor. And I'm not trying to say that to insult you. The difference is just that obvious to me. I swapped copper interconnects for silver, from the same manufacturer. The silver was intensely more revealing. But so shrill on female vocals that they hurt my ears. I had to go back to copper. Then listened to stranded silver from a different manufacturer, and they were gorgeous. To so many of us, cables can bring out such obvious differences in sound, verifiable in dbx testing, that when people come and proclaim as fact that cables don't make a difference, it's an insult. And generally they back it up with statements like "I couldn't hear a difference" or "you're just plugging it into Romex". If that's your thing, great. Congratulations, you get to spend less money than me. I'm jealous. But don't tell me that cables don't make a difference, as of it's a fact just because someone doesn't hear it. Other people do.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
This discussion has been closed.