Speaker cable fable!
onebadchad
Posts: 364
I am sure this will draw a lot of argument, But I absolutely cannot tell ANY difference between My Cheap 10 AWG speaker wire and Cheap Connectors than any other speaker wire.. And I have tried many. I am convinced it makes NO diff. as long as the cable is the same length on both channels and not just twisted up in a ball on the end and cramped in the connecters, It sounds as good to me as any high dollar cable I have tried. Basically Im saying about 50 bucks is the most you should have to spend on cable. I realize the high dollar one look fancy laying across the floor but the cost diff isnt worth it! I have always used quality equipment and speakers, and I am not deaf, I can tell differences in amps, pre-amps, speakers, and other components. Just not the speaker wire. Thats just my two cents for what its worth, but I personally think the extra money is better spent somewhere else. 
Hello Kitty am/fm CD player
Post edited by onebadchad on
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What is the rest of your system?- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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I have lots of systems, In my Living room I am running a Mcintosh Ma230 with SDA2B speakers, mostly vinyl on a technics sl m2 with a pickering 4004/xsp cartridge. In my bedroom a Rotel RA 1312 with Klipsch forte, most that music is digital.Hello Kitty am/fm CD player
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Interesting...
I think there is a point of diminishing returns but I have definitely heard a difference in wire - whether it is an RCA or speaker, for sure.
YMMV- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I noticed a slight improvement going from cheap home depot cable to Canare 4s11 which can be bought very cheap by the foot. The biggest overall improvement was going from the 4s11 to the Mit's i'm using now (and they are BOTTOM of the line MIT). There are too many factors to say yes they make a difference or not, the only way to be 100% sure is to try em in your rig with your ears. The good news is you can save money and it still sounds good to you. My next purchase will be new speaker cables to replace the ones in my living room, which aren't visible. It's worth it to me and I do hear a difference but to each his own.
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I use wire clothes hangers and they ROCK!Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
What "others" have you tried? You don't say. A Honda Accord and Toyota Camry and Mazda 6 are all different cars, but very similar for someone looking for transportation. Compared either to a higher performance sedan and some people will notice a difference.
Point being, if you are comparing similar wire, then there won't be much differences.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
You should be in the MIT cable demo program. If you aren't then I don't believe you. I have heard many differences among even the more modest cables.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Im not saying theres no diff, I am saying that theres a point where it just doesnt get any better, as far as I can tell. I do have decent rca cable and heavy gage wire and connectors, but I personally think that is enough. Again, its just my opinion..Hello Kitty am/fm CD player
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And one more thing. Everytime I have opened up a speaker there some some little dinky **** wire going from the crossover to speaker, if its so damn important, whats up with that???Hello Kitty am/fm CD player
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I tend to agree with you Chad....I have really old monster stuff..must be 10 gauge at min. I went and wasted 300bucks on some ..latest and greatest speaker cable. On SDA 1C's....I could hear no difference.
A Preamp change, or poweramp change..that you can hear...But the speaker cable..I could hear nothing.
To be blunt...I think i would just buy Anit-cables...the price is right..and people say there better then the way over priced stuff. -
Couldn't the same thing be said about big thick power cables making a difference, when the internal wiring in the amp/prepamp/CDP is of such a small gauge?onebadchad wrote: »And one more thing. Everytime I have opened up a speaker there some some little dinky **** wire going from the crossover to speaker, if its so damn important, whats up with that???
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I use wire clothes hangers and they ROCK!
"No wire hangers, EVER!" :evil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUkE9qaVgmo -
naturallight wrote: »I tend to agree with you Chad....I have really old monster stuff..must be 10 gauge at min. I went and wasted 300bucks on some ..latest and greatest speaker cable. On SDA 1C's....I could hear no difference.
A Preamp change, or poweramp change..that you can hear...But the speaker cable..I could hear nothing.
To be blunt...I think i would just buy Anit-cables...the price is right..and people say there better then the way over priced stuff.
What latest and greatest? And who are these "people". Many people here say the opposite. Why are the people you refer to have a better opinion than those of us here? Just curious how and where you choose to hang your hat.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
onebadchad wrote: »I am sure this will draw a lot of argument, But I absolutely cannot tell ANY difference between My Cheap 10 AWG speaker wire and Cheap Connectors than any other speaker wire.. And I have tried many. I am convinced it makes NO diff. as long as the cable is the same length on both channels and not just twisted up in a ball on the end and cramped in the connecters, It sounds as good to me as any high dollar cable I have tried. Basically Im saying about 50 bucks is the most you should have to spend on cable. I realize the high dollar one look fancy laying across the floor but the cost diff isnt worth it! I have always used quality equipment and speakers, and I am not deaf, I can tell differences in amps, pre-amps, speakers, and other components. Just not the speaker wire. Thats just my two cents for what its worth, but I personally think the extra money is better spent somewhere else.
Then you say:onebadchad wrote: »Im not saying theres no diff, I am saying that theres a point where it just doesnt get any better, as far as I can tell. I do have decent rca cable and heavy gage wire and connectors, but I personally think that is enough. Again, its just my opinion..
Hmmm..........seems you forgot what you wrote. So which is it there sport?"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Im saying my cheap **** 10 awg speaker cable sounds as good as any other more expensive cables I have used. I am not talking about 3.99 a roll radio shack wire. that does sound like crap.Hello Kitty am/fm CD player
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You know H9...you really have a problem with this...... I have no clue what the speaker cable was at the time..it was well over 15 years ago..probably some Audioquest or whatever..point being..it was well over 300 bucks...did NOTHING for the sound of the SDA's.
The Anti-cable thing...I did not say...well everybody on THIS forum likes them....there are other people outside this forum that seem to think they work well.....just because you don't like them, dose not mean there junk!
Just a point in fact..have you ever tried them????
To be blunt agian..if you haven't tried them...then you don't know....so don't say anything bad about them. -
When one changes a power cord, one is changing the physical power supply of the electronic device. When one changes the interconnect between the source, and pre-amp, one is changing the analog output of the source. When one changes the interconnect between the pre-amp, and amplifier, one is changing the physical characteristics of the pre-amp's analog output. When one changes the wire between the amplifier, and transducer, one is changing the physical output section of the amplifier.
Basically, swapping wires improves the level of electronic components one is using. A lot, of what one will hear depends upon the transducers sensibilities. This can be an absolute blessing, or a complete nightmare depending upon how one looks at it. -
o-b-c: How do you know that Radio Shack wire sounds like crap? Have you tried it? :question: See....I thought I'd throw that out there for H9, 'cuz he thinks the only way you can know anything is to have experienced it. :cheesygrin: So, get ready, he'll be asking you to state the names and models of ALL cables you've ever tried and will then, no matter which ones you have tried, tell you that you don't know anything. Yes, I'm speaking from experience there.
I agree with your comment also about the puny wires used inside of the speaker cabinets...what IS up with that?!? :rolleyes: -
teekay0007 wrote: »"No wire hangers, EVER!" :evil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUkE9qaVgmo
Man good wire hangers are better than any AQ or MIT i have ever tried!!
It's also fun to use as a powercord straight from the wall socket.Livens up the whole listening experience i tell ya.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
Ive actually made preamp to amp jumpers out of wire hangers, lol. maybe Im a little redneck. But I love my music o_OHello Kitty am/fm CD player
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Here we go again...
And this was necessary, why?
Never mind. I'm in for 8 pages and a lock. -
onebadchad wrote: »Ive actually made preamp to amp jumpers out of wire hangers, lol. maybe Im a little redneck. But I love my music o_O
In all honesty this is fantastic. No one has ever twisted anyone's arm and forced them to purchase upgraded cables. I actually wish I did not have the ability to hear the difference because of the money spent. Not only can I hear the differences between cables within the same room I can hear the differences standing outside to an adjacent room after the cables are swapped. I suppose I shouldn't even begin to talk about any type of different connectors.:biggrin: -
Yea I would think once your 98% there that the last 2% is not noticeable by some of us.
Decent quality 14 gauge stranded copper wire is about it for me.POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1 -
Very touchy subject to say the least. I've tried different cables & yes they do make a difference but not nearly as much as a lot of folks would have you believe. The uber priced stuff is a salesman's wet dream & I have no problem with that. Someone dropping major coin on speakers & gear is an easy mark. I wouldn't mind being the one selling the stuff. In the end it's all subjective...some are just more gullible than others."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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If you've ever worked retail there is a reason sales people always push high end cables. The mark up at the store I worked was between 100 to 150%. The upper end of the spectrum having the highest markup.
Yes there is a difference between entry level and high level stuff. But most people don't have the gear or enough hearing left to tell the difference between mid and high level.
My .02 $ -
It's that time of the month again. Time for another cables argument.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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onebadchad wrote: »And one more thing. Everytime I have opened up a speaker there some some little dinky **** wire going from the crossover to speaker, if its so damn important, whats up with that???
You've got it going :idea:Couldn't the same thing be said about big thick power cables making a difference, when the internal wiring in the amp/prepamp/CDP is of such a small gauge?
" big thick power cables making a difference" makes no difference as long as they are sized to current usage..after all they do plug into some cheap a$$ romex house wiring
Shielded cable does make a difference if the there is any chance for interference/crosstalk.Samsung PN64F8500, Parasound 2100 pre amp, Parasound 2250 v.2 amp, Parasound Zdac, OPPO 103D, Monitor Audio Silver RX8, Dual SVS PB 2000 -
It's that time of the month again. Time for another cables argument.
Absolutely not, I have an open mind. I've come to the conclusion that even the deaf have a right to be an audiophile.:biggrin: -
" big thick power cables making a difference" makes no difference as long as they are sized to currant usage..after all they do plug into some cheap a$$ romex house wiring
Wow! Thank you for that enlightening bit of insight! I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!!!! Not even after reading 100 other people who've been members for a month with 14 post counts make the same claim. Only problem is.... they do make a difference.
If you're going to make a claim like that, and state it as fact as if you're Sir Isaac Newton, at least learn to spell the word. It's "current". "Currant" is a berry.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
ANATHEMA!
onebadchad, obviously your ears are defective, go home and never post here again!I have found that tube based computers provide the best sound quality. ENIAC and MANIAC I offer a smooth, well defined and articulated sound unmatched by the current silicon based CPUs.
jeremymarcinko wrote: »But as in all things your perception is your reality.
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