Speaker cable fable!

BlueFox

Thanks for this thread since it reminded me how great my MIT S1.3 XLR ICs, Shunyata Anaconda Ztron speaker cables, various Shunyata power cables, and Shunyata Triton power conditioner improved the sound of my system. So, last night I broke down and ordered two SACDs from Acoustic Sounds. Hopefully, they will be here by Friday night.

CAPP 8402 SA 1 1 Creedence Clearwater Revival/ Cosmo's Factory
CPLJ 9081 SA 1 1 The Rolling Stones/ Exile On Main St./ Import SHM

Thanks again.

GlennDog

pepster wrote: »

crazy how cables are the biggest taboo conversation in audio.
Never could understand that.


A close friend of my late mother collects vintage, "collectable" wines, and everything that goes with it.
She has been collecting and researching for over a decade, anything that has to do with "better" wines.
She also collect expensive cork screws.

After the funeral of my mother, and it was just close family members/friends in her home, we decided to do
a toast to my mother.
She picked a wine (iirc it was about $600 for the bottle).

Everyone drinking it just gushed how good it was.
I swear, i could not tell the difference and actually preferred the cheaper wines i have drank over the
years (i am not a wine drinker, i would be happy with wine in a box).
I was expecting to have that "eureka" moment!
It did not happen.

I have tried several "upscale" wines at her house, and just really don't see what the hoopla is all about.
I have had some $30/bottle wine that i thought was really pretty good, and could never justify the cost,
like she does.

Its what she is into, its her hobby.
She likes the best of her hobby like anyone else.
Its a multi-billion dollar business, with hundreds of millions of people into to that hobby.


Wine like that is expensive because that is what someone will pay for them.

To each their own!

dead-on . . . Nuff said!!!!!!

G

lightman1

I STILL like hot dogs and pie!!!!

Upstatemax

ravaneli wrote: »

if the cable changed the signal, this is no longer true reproduction of the source.

Of all the pointless banter in your post i'm going to focus on this one part. Since every argument with you comes down to this same point from you.

Since you're so hell bent on this one point, please tell me what are the extensive room treatments you have done to ensure your listening enviroment has a flat response, also include your supporting documents since I'm sure you had it measured. You know, because you're so anal about zero distortion from what the artist originally intended.

I'm going to make a bold prediction; you have done either zero room treatments, or next to zero.

SO, all your talk about zero distortion is moot. Since the most common and largest source of distortion from the original intended signal is usually your listening enviroment.

Lets dive a little deeper. Lets say you have a room that leads to boomy bass. If you can't change the room, gear that "distorts" the signal is ideal since the room alone is going to make a mess of the "original intent". Tubes are a great option as you can pair tubes that can bring in and tighten the bottom end, you can simply keep swapping tubes till you find the best fit. with a simple tube swap you could be looking at a far more accurate representation of the original content than what a sterile, zero distortion piece of gear can ever give you.

Since 99.9% of music lovers listening enviorments are no where near ideal, being able to shape the sound and tone of your system with "distortion" to match not only your room, but your personal perception of the sound is a MUST to get an accurate reproduction.

You keep looking to the original intent of the artist, yet you fail to look at the fact that almost every artist pays VERY close attention to the room that an album/song is recorded in. Why?

Because the recording enviroment plays a HUGE part of the finished product. Ever been to a concert at a horrible "mega" arena and then to one at a purpose built performance arts center? HUGE difference in the experiance and it ALL comes down to the enviroment...

So until you have a perfectly designed, built, tested and approved listening envirment; don't mention your precious "distortion" argument ever again.

Well, at least that's MY opinion...

nspindel

I bet she likes top-notch tubes.

zane77

chad, great fix for this endless thread. Rick, Thanks for the best addition to this

B Run

Now...who wants to talk about abortion,religion or politics? :twisted:

nooshinjohn

B Run wrote: »

Now...who wants to talk about abortion,religion or politics? :twisted:

Glenn Beck is back on the real tv... He just launched "The Blaze" on the Dish Network. Channel 212 for those interested.:cheesygrin:

SDA1C

You know what I would like to watch as a fly on the wall or camera in the corner is, without the owners knowledge, swap their, "cables of ridiculous price and stellar quality", for Monster Cable specials and see how long it takes for them to notice and identify the change.

The concept of completely passive and zero inflection only works when you have absolutely inert medium. This is incredibly difficult when you consider the twists and turns in the wire. Obviously fields come into play there that cannot be controlled. However, I do think the concept of zero effect is what the R&D of the more expensive cable manufacturers is all about. To take the speaRker cable out of the mix is really the only way to keep from having it change the sound in a negative way in respect to the purist signal from the source and amplification.

Electronics can be tweaked for sound by resistors and capacitors. Inputs can be tweaked electronically, needles can be modified and improved by changing voltages and moving part weights and balances, lasers can be adjusted by angle and distance but the wires themselves are more of a victim to the rest. There is no way to tweak a piece of wire, so to make them as transparent as possible by adding resistance and other components to the path is really the only choice. Compensation if you will for signal degradation. The relatively short length of the wire in the cabinet and the fact that they carry a more isolated signal is why the wires in the speakers have less of an effect on signal than the 15 ft runs between amp and speaker that are carrying full signal making them more susceptible to effects from the self generated field interference from the speaker cable.

I have a grand total of about 4 hun into my wires so I am by no means an expert. I have always had these wires with this rig so no comparison can really be made. I will not be in the market for 10k in wires so I am guessing this is as good as it will get for while (trust me it ain't bad). I may try some crappy wires just to verify my theory but I don't see that happening any time soon. If what I think is actually correct I would have to go to direct connection to completely satisfy my OCD so lets not get that ball rolling.

I guess the bottom line is how much you can afford in the search for absolute speaker wire transparency.

1C

bobsauto49

A close friend of my late mother collects vintage, "collectable" wines, and everything that goes with it.
She has been collecting and researching for over a decade, anything that has to do with "better" wines.
She also collect expensive cork screws.

After the funeral of my mother, and it was just close family members/friends in her home, we decided to do
a toast to my mother.
She picked a wine (IIRC it was about $600 for the bottle).

Everyone drinking it just gushed how good it was.
I swear, I could not tell the difference and actually preferred the cheaper wines I have drank over the
years (I am not a wine drinker, I would be happy with wine in a box).
I was expecting to have that "EUREKA" moment!
It did not happen.

I have tried several "upscale" wines at her house, and just really don't see what the hoopla is all about.
I have had some $30/bottle wine that I thought was really pretty good, and could never justify the cost,
like she does.

Its what she is into, its her hobby.
She likes the best of her hobby like anyone else.
Its a multi-billion dollar business, with hundreds of millions of people into to that hobby.


Wine like that is expensive because that is what someone will pay for them.

To each their own!




Wine like that is expensive because that is what someone will pay for them.
That's an over simplistic generalization. Better "anything" usually costs more because there is more of "whatever" involved to make it better than the average. Sure some things are over-priced and people will pay that price. But to simply say your above statement is pretty silly.

H9

I hear H9 tell everyone on this forum to use experience to to find wisdom,instead of reading whats on the internet! This genteleman here gave us a great example of his own experience,and the all mighty God of Polk Forum,Shoots him down! Hypocrite!
You tell people your done with a subject,and then ride the dead horse into the sunset. Bash me all you want,I come here for the entertainment, including You, The Last word in audio enjoyment! As long as you and F1 keep rubbing nuts,this forum is yours! And thank the good lord above you have a computer to answer to!
P.S I'm a nobody,and have no experience to back any of my claims! And also,I have inferior equiptment,and havent tried any cables,amps,pre-amps,or sda's,and tubes to be qualified to express my opinion on this forum! GoodDay,and GoodLuck on the rest on all your endeavors!

tonyb

nspindel wrote: »

I bet she likes top-notch tubes.

Black plates ? Maybe ??

11tsteve

bobsauto49 wrote: »

Wine like that is expensive because that is what someone will pay for them.

to say something like this is to say there are not higher grade grapes, a better distilling process, better grade barrels... that aging has no affect.... etc.

better ingredients, better process, better product.

tonyb

[QUOTE=bobsauto49;1812089This genteleman here gave us a great example of his own experience,and the all mighty God of Polk Forum,Shoots him down! Hypocrite! ![/QUOTE]

Ok, well lets recap then shall we. He said he couldn't hear a difference between his cheapo cables and many others he had tried. Right there....no problems, not everyone can tell a difference, we all know that. Now the crux of the matter. When asked what other cables he had tried.....crickets. See the problem ?

Nobody plays God around here but some of us are on different playing fields with audio than others and many can benefit from their experience and even past mistakes. Some of you are just going to have to deal with that. Thats the whole point of discussion....to learn, no ?

Btw- you have very nice gear and I'll take your self criticism as sarcasm.

nspindel

tonyb wrote: »

Black plates ? Maybe ??

Matched pair :evil:

tonyb

nspindel wrote: »

Matched pair :evil:

Nah...by her position of her gear, I'd say she needs a rectifier.

nspindel

Lmfao.

heiney9

VR3

I use guitar strings for my interconnects, only the best.

gdb

heiney9 wrote: »

It's been done and the results posted and debated ad nausem right here on our own forum by Darqueknight. Look for his posts and get your read on. In fact he has written a peer reviewed journal piece about it.

This is ALL old, rehashed, recycled stuff that rears it's ugly head from noobs to the forum about twice a year.

Everyone asking the same questions over and over, get your read on as it's been covered 100's and 100's of times.

Yawn

H9

Yawn ??? you've managed to stay awake in this thread long enough to............... make no fewer than TWENTY POSTS !! OMG you are a trip sometimes !

audiocr381ve

VR3 wrote: »

I use guitar strings for my interconnects, only the best.

Does that actually work? I have an unopened pack

gdb

onebadchad wrote: »

Never mind, I fixed it!

Those MIT jumper cables ??? :cool:

Upstatemax

VR3 wrote: »

I use guitar strings for my interconnects, only the best.

If they are not Ernie Ball Slinky strings, you don't know what you're missing...

gdb

Is phosphor bronze a good signal conductor ??

Upstatemax

Rick88 wrote: »

So do you mean to tell me that the First Act (high E) strings I've been using for speaker wire are no good?

You can use them INSIDE the speaker, but I don't suggest them for external use...

VR3

I actually use the Cobalts... greater sustain, more volume! Mmmmkkk!

SDA1C

tonyb wrote: »

Nobody plays God around here but some of us are on different playing fields with audio than others and many can benefit from their experience and even past mistakes.

LOL Tonyb Funny stuff there. Whenever someone mentions the elite prowess of the self described audio guru I cant help but think of heiny9 and the sweat on his forehead as he is mentally tackled by a little red cap in a 5 way binding post. LOL!

headrott

pepster wrote: »

Crazy how cables are the biggest taboo conversation in audio.
Never could understand that.


A close friend of my late mother collects vintage, "collectable" wines, and everything that goes with it.
She has been collecting and researching for over a decade, anything that has to do with "better" wines.
She also collect expensive cork screws.

After the funeral of my mother, and it was just close family members/friends in her home, we decided to do
a toast to my mother.
She picked a wine (IIRC it was about $600 for the bottle).

Everyone drinking it just gushed how good it was.
I swear, I could not tell the difference and actually preferred the cheaper wines I have drank over the
years (I am not a wine drinker, I would be happy with wine in a box).
I was expecting to have that "EUREKA" moment!
It did not happen.

I have tried several "upscale" wines at her house, and just really don't see what the hoopla is all about.
I have had some $30/bottle wine that I thought was really pretty good, and could never justify the cost,
like she does.

Its what she is into, its her hobby.
She likes the best of her hobby like anyone else.
Its a multi-billion dollar business, with hundreds of millions of people into to that hobby.


Wine like that is expensive because that is what someone will pay for them.

To each their own!

I highly recommend some Rombauer Zinfandel from California (Napa Valley). It is about $35.00 and is one of the best Zinfandels I have ever had. Slightly sweet for a Zinfandel, and a multitude of flavor layers. I know it's off subject, but I don't think Rav and the others are learning anything anyway so...........

Here is a link to the Rombauer site: http://www.rombauer.com/

Definately give it a try and let me know what you think.

PolkieMan

Yea I have done the audio video store thing and if we sold a leader item we better "accessorize the sale".
I have found the best/top line cables etc that Monoprice carries to be of nice quality and price but I guess maybe I'm cheapo

shopdog328 wrote: »

If you've ever worked retail there is a reason sales people always push high end cables. The mark up at the store I worked was between 100 to 150%. The upper end of the spectrum having the highest markup.
Yes there is a difference between entry level and high level stuff. But most people don't have the gear or enough hearing left to tell the difference between mid and high level.
My .02 $

jbooker82

ravaneli wrote: »

The cable is like a pipe, a conduit that the signal needs to go through. The best possible cable has the signal that exits the cable exactly the same as the signal that enters the cable. If any changes to the signal happen during the transit, that is a drawback of the cable. EVEN IF YOU LIKE IT BETTER, if the cable changed the signal, this is no longer true reproduction of the source.

Where has anybody said that the most expensive cable is the best? What cable sounds good for you might not be the best for some one else. I though this thread was about how cables don't make a bit of difference? Your whole argument about how cables don't matter because they are like pipes is wrong. Lay a pipe flowing water across a pipe flowing oil, no matter how much you try you won't get water in the oil pipe, or oil in the water pipe. Now do that will audio cables and power cords. You get interference. How can that be? They are separate. How a cable is constricted dictates how it deals with EMI, wich will also effect how it sounds.

Remember we are not debating weather it is a good or bad change that is an opinion. According to your thinking EMI can't happen because they are separate pipes.

heiney9

Here are todays buzz words class, pay attention and get your learn on

Inductance
Capacitance
Resistance
Electro Magnetic Interference
Bandwidth
Energy
Phase
Attenuation

All cables handle the above differently. Once you have an understanding about how the above interact within a given "closed" system, you can begin to understand how some cables sound different than others.

The above is just in very general terms as there are other physics involved, but let's keep it simple for some of our less than intelligent members posting in this thread.

H9