Looking forward to L800 but have concerns, what are your thoughts?

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  • Posts: 26,560
    Mike Reeter wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    I think the Dual Mono issue has more to do with the new L800's...maybe ;)

    From my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong. The issue is a balanced architecture does something to the SDA signal. Balanced has an in phase and out of phase signal so it takes away from the SDA side.
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  • Posts: 4,315
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    From my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong. The issue is a balanced architecture does something to the SDA signal. Balanced has an in phase and out of phase signal so it takes away from the SDA side.

    There you go, sounds reasonable to me :)

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  • Posts: 51,352
    edited March 2020
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    From my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong. The issue is a balanced architecture does something to the SDA signal. Balanced has an in phase and out of phase signal so it takes away from the SDA side.

    100% correct. A "regular" dual mono amp or mono blocks are fine to use with the L800's.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Posts: 15,251
    I thought a regular stereo amp fell into the balanced category. What is a balanced amp? Examples.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Posts: 25,715
    edited March 2020
    Balanced Audio Technologies... :p

    My gut tells me that if the amp features XLR on the back, you need to investigate the topology of said amp.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Posts: 3,649
    BlueFox wrote: »
    What is a balanced amp? Examples.
    Pass X600.5 ;)
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  • Posts: 15,251
    FTGV wrote: »
    show previous quotes
    Pass X600.5 ;)

    I would think they fall into the mono block category.
    F1nut wrote: »
    100% correct. A "regular" dual mono amp or mono blocks are fine to use with the L800's.


    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Posts: 3,649
    edited March 2020
    BlueFox wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    I would think they fall into the mono block category.

    While they are mono blocks , they are also a balanced design. Pass calls it SuperSymmetry . Stereo or mono blocks can be balanced/bridged designs.
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  • Posts: 15,251
    So, I can’t use the L800 with my amps, at least not if I wanted the SDA effect. Guess I will stick with regular stereo. :)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Posts: 3,649
    BlueFox wrote: »
    So, I can’t use the L800 with my amps, at least not if I wanted the SDA effect. Guess I will stick with regular stereo. :)
    Correct.

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  • Posts: 15,251
    Thanks. Learn something every day.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Posts: 6,321
    In my past sda \ McIntosh experience, my old integra and sunfire amps played better with the sda's i had . Not saying McIntosh are bad as i have owned several McIntosh pieces over the years and still recommend them to some folks depending on the speakers they are running. I almost suspect the autoformers on the few McIntosh amps I had could have been the culprit. My McIntosh with legacy focus sounded awesome .
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • Posts: 25,715
    I have never been impressed with the McIntosh setups I have heard either, except when paired with the bigger Magnepans…
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Posts: 2,241
    I wonder if having a balanced input to the balanced amps might be the ticket to the best sound from the balanced amps or would it not make a difference?
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  • Posts: 34,537
    edited March 2020
    I am guessing that there's some conflation goin' on here of balanced signal transmission (separate positive and negative signal lines as well as a ground line, i.e., XLR or TRS cables/connectors) vs. single-ended ('hot' line and a ground, i.e., "RCA" or TS cables/connectors) and single-ended vs. push-pull (complementary) amplifier topologies.

    Typically, preamp stages are single-ended (Class A) and power amplifiers are push-pull (and those, typically a Class AB variant) -- so, to that extent, most of the power amplifiers (not all) that y'all use are 'balanced' -- but not at their inputs and/or outputs.

    Amplifiers traditionally use a "phase splitter" to take the single-ended preamp output and split the signal for the push-pull power amplifier.

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  • Posts: 25
    The JC5 is dual mono, but shares a common ground. I use it with my SDA 1A second generation speakers with no issue.

    The type of amps that do not work with SDA are fully balanced or more accurate balanced differential amps. An unbalanced amp can still have balanced inputs, but is not fully balanced from input to output. One way to tell if your amp is fully balanced is if it has balanced pass-through outputs and they only work with the balanced inputs and not the unbalanced inputs. The JC5 is the opposite; it has unbalanced pass-through outputs. This is another way to tell if it is not a fully balanced amp.


    I Also have some xlr splitters and they will only work if both the preamp and the amp are balanced differential. They work with my Ayre V-5XE, but not with the JC5.

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  • Posts: 2,241
    Astropet wrote: »
    The type of amps that do not work with SDA are fully balanced or more accurate balanced differential amps. An unbalanced amp can still have balanced inputs, but is not fully balanced from input to output. One way to tell if your amp is fully balanced is if it has balanced pass-through outputs and they only work with the balanced inputs and not the unbalanced inputs. The JC5 is the opposite; it has unbalanced pass-through outputs. This is another way to tell if it is not a fully balanced amp.

    This isn't quite true. With the addition of a dreadnaught I've been using fully balanced amps on my sda's with excellent results for a couple years now. There's also a switch on the back of my amps that allow the use of either rca's or balanced connections. Having tried both connections I find the balanced connection coming from my balanced preamp is the one that sounds the best as well as having 3db better snr.

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  • Posts: 51,352
    edited March 2020
    Astropet wrote: »
    The JC5 is dual mono, but shares a common ground. I use it with my SDA 1A second generation speakers with no issue.

    The type of amps that do not work with SDA are fully balanced or more accurate balanced differential amps. An unbalanced amp can still have balanced inputs, but is not fully balanced from input to output. One way to tell if your amp is fully balanced is if it has balanced pass-through outputs and they only work with the balanced inputs and not the unbalanced inputs. The JC5 is the opposite; it has unbalanced pass-through outputs. This is another way to tell if it is not a fully balanced amp.

    Vintage pin/blade SDA's can use any amp or amps in conjunction with the AI-1 or Dreadnought.

    The L800 can use any amp or amps except balanced differential types.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Posts: 508
    edited March 2020
    I got confirmation from Parasound their JC5 topology will work with SDA.
    • Living Room Music-2.1 Polk Legend L800 | SVS SB1000Pro | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Marantz HD-CD1 | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Pro USB to DAC
    • Home Theater-9.7.6/15.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x6], Height LSiM703 [x6], HSU ULS-15Mk2x4, VTF-15HMk2x2, VTF-TN1 | Trinnov Altitude 16+4 (2024) | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Martin Logan MP500x2 | Topping DX7s, E50 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo Z9X | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Sony UBP-X800 | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.1 B&W Formation Duo and Bass
    • Daughter's Gaming Rig-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Martin Logan Forte
    • Orphans DSW microPRO3000x2 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz AV8805A
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | SMSL DO100 Pro 2 | Pass ACA v1.6 Monoblocks
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080 | Fire TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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  • Posts: 26,560
    mpitogo wrote: »
    I got confirmation from Parasound their JC5 topology will work with SDA.

    I knew it would work with my SDA's.
    I just need to win a lotto and I'm all set.
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  • Posts: 508
    edited March 2020
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I have never been impressed with the McIntosh setups I have heard either, except when paired with the bigger Magnepans…

    Hi John,

    My first exposure to McIntosh was in the 80's at an uncle's house where he had a Mac stack with Ohm Walsh Fs, he was playing Madonna. I was so impress with the sound. At the time I was only a kid and our main home system was a Fisher. Since then I've been looking at ways to improve the sound of the music I am into. Later on I used to hang around the public library reading stereo magazines and on the front cover of one which struck me was Matthew Polk in a lab coat with an SDA speaker. The rest is history and a lifetime of Polk speakers and a McIntosh combo.
    • Living Room Music-2.1 Polk Legend L800 | SVS SB1000Pro | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Marantz HD-CD1 | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Pro USB to DAC
    • Home Theater-9.7.6/15.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x6], Height LSiM703 [x6], HSU ULS-15Mk2x4, VTF-15HMk2x2, VTF-TN1 | Trinnov Altitude 16+4 (2024) | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Martin Logan MP500x2 | Topping DX7s, E50 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo Z9X | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Sony UBP-X800 | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.1 B&W Formation Duo and Bass
    • Daughter's Gaming Rig-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Martin Logan Forte
    • Orphans DSW microPRO3000x2 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz AV8805A
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | SMSL DO100 Pro 2 | Pass ACA v1.6 Monoblocks
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080 | Fire TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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  • Posts: 4,916
    mpitogo wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    Hi John,

    My first exposure to McIntosh was in the 80's at an uncle's house where he had a Mac stack with Ohm Walsh Fs, he was playing Madonna. I was so impress with the sound. At the time I was only a kid and our main home system was a Fisher. Since then I've been looking at ways to improve the sound of the music I am into. Later on I used to hang around the public library reading stereo magazines and on the front cover of one which struck me was Matthew Polk in a lab coat with an SDA speaker. The rest is history and a lifetime of Polk speakers and a McIntosh combo.

    so you're saying that if Amar Bose had been on that cover you would now have Bose speakers :D
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • Posts: 508
    Maybe...glad it was Polk.
    • Living Room Music-2.1 Polk Legend L800 | SVS SB1000Pro | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Marantz HD-CD1 | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Pro USB to DAC
    • Home Theater-9.7.6/15.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x6], Height LSiM703 [x6], HSU ULS-15Mk2x4, VTF-15HMk2x2, VTF-TN1 | Trinnov Altitude 16+4 (2024) | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Martin Logan MP500x2 | Topping DX7s, E50 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo Z9X | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Sony UBP-X800 | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.1 B&W Formation Duo and Bass
    • Daughter's Gaming Rig-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Martin Logan Forte
    • Orphans DSW microPRO3000x2 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz AV8805A
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | SMSL DO100 Pro 2 | Pass ACA v1.6 Monoblocks
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080 | Fire TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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  • Posts: 4,315
    ptrooper wrote: »
    50 hours in. Starting to relax in place. They definitely need something to stop the forward and back rocking. These rubber spike protectors are to soft 5sdntumibqn1.jpeg
    cc1297dyr5r1.jpeg

    For the size of those babies, I think they look great in your space!


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  • Posts: 501
    Thanks Mike,They sure fill the whole room very nicely and the miss's absolutely loves them =Me winning sneaking them into place.
    I can stand directly to the side of them and still here the opposite speaker!
    Mike Reeter wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    For the size of those babies, I think they look great in your space!


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  • Posts: 501
    GAIA 2’s. Does any one know the thread size needed on the L800.looks like M10 ,Isoacoustic should supply these.
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  • Posts: 4,916
    I would call isoacoustics as being that close to the weight limit of the gaia 2, they might suggest the gaia 1
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • Posts: 26,560
    edited March 2020
    pull yours off and use a thread gauge to be sure. I'm thinking they would be something like 1/4" x 20 tpi
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  • Posts: 51,352
    Polk typically used 1/4-20 threads, but I think some of the newer stuff is 6mm.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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