Best speaker wire

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Comments

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    These type of threads I like seeing a "troll" appear as it normally brings out a few well informed members for rebuttal. Then I get the benefit of learning something new.

    Calling someone a Troll that has taken time to post a polite view that you simply do not like or agree with, is.......?

    If all you seek is agreement and validation of your opinions or views, great, but why get so bent out of shape when another view or idea is presented?

    Perhaps seeing other views (which there are many on audio forums) will truly help you learn something "New", and not just reaffirm what you want to hear.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • motorstereomotorstereo Posts: 1,510
    ^^^^^Hmmm; I don't remember referring to a specific person as being a "troll" but if the shoe fits then by all means wear it. As far as me being "bent out of shape" lol ok if you say so. You may also want to give that "bent out of shape" shoe a quick check for fitting at the same time.
  • K_M wrote: »
    rpf65 wrote: »
    Have to disagree K_M. When I went from no name to Canare wire, thought I heard a little difference, but wasn’t quite sure. After a few weeks, switched back, and noticed that the midrange was less pronounced. Took a while, but got curious again.

    @K_M 's experience differs from yours. She once thought she heard a difference in cables, but when she did a blind test, the differences "disappeared". When I (repeatedly) asked how the test was set up and what evaluation methodology was used (specifically, what performance criteria were listened for), she refused to answer.

    Actually I will say there can be small differences for sure. But most are small enough that they fall into the "maybe, or maybe not" such as early morning listening, or listening on a sunny day, changes my perception of sound.

    The basis of stereophonic listening is sound localization. If the listener is not evaluating the placement of sound images in the stereo sound field and describing the quality of those sound images, then most of what is there can be missed. I have done trials were there was no difference in sound, but there was a difference in the size and location of sound images. I have also done trials were there was no sonic or localization differences, but there was a difference in the degree of tactile sensation generated.
    K_M wrote: »
    I will not get into "Discussions" with you, based on your previous "Style" of discussing, which usually is copying and pasting a bunch of information from other sources, and so on, and asking me specifically to prove you wrong........

    I have never asked you to "prove me wrong". I have only asked you to justify or substantiate your statements. Someone participating in a discussion and acting in good faith and honesty should welcome the opportunity to substantiate their views, if such substantiation exists.

    There is nothing wrong with quoting or "copying and pasting" a bunch of information from other sources as long as it is credible and pertinent to the discussion. However, I do understand that my style of discourse, based on scientific validity and credible research, would be unappealing, and even distasteful, to someone who apparently is not able to grasp basic technical concepts pertaining to stereophonic performance. Your preference for anecdotal and opinion-based discussion is understandable within that context.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • K_M wrote: »
    If all you seek is agreement and validation of your opinions or views, great, but why get so bent out of shape when another view or idea is presented?

    These comments highlight a need for self reflection on your part. You are the one who gets bent out of shape when asked to substantiate, validate, or explain your opinions and views.
    K_M wrote: »
    Perhaps seeing other views (which there are many on audio forums) will truly help you learn something "New", and not just reaffirm what you want to hear.

    This is strange coming from you since you criticized me for referencing credible and pertinent research because it didn't reaffirm, and actually invalidated, what you wanted to believe.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,074
    Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

    Not really....a dozen or so of the same guys, saying the same stuff, on a forum with a very small membership, really does nothing to upset me at all.
    If you venture to much larger audio forums, you would see many different views overall.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,895
    I say go ahead and venture there my man
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT - Parasound P6 - Parasound A21+ - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u

    HT - Panasonic BDP/Tivo Bolt - Marantz SR5013 - Def tech C and In ceiling - Sony XBR 75"
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    K_M wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

    Not really....a dozen or so of the same guys, saying the same stuff, on a forum with a very small membership, really does nothing to upset me at all.

    I don't choose forum memberships based some pathological need to challenge the views of the membership, nor do I choose forum memberships based on the size of the forum. I choose forum membership based on common interest and a desire to exchange useful information. I have a significant, decades-long investment in Polk Audio speakers, therefore this forum is a good fit for my interests.
    K_M wrote: »
    If you venture to much larger audio forums, you would see your views get challenged a lot more.

    But I truly understand it feels good to stay where you feel as if your views are reinforced, but try venturing out some.

    Why such emphasis on "much larger forums", as if the sheer number of people saying something makes it true, correct, and right. Another name for that is "mob mentality". If one person says 2+2=4 and one million people say 2+2=6, the lie does not become the truth because one million people say or believe it.

    Size sometimes matters, but not so much when it pertains to the size of an Internet forum. What is more important is the validity and usefulness of the information being shared.

    The size of a forum, or any other group, has no relationship to whether the group's views are correct or not. The fact that you would imply such calls your integrity into question.

    It appears that your purpose here is to "challenge" rather than to contribute and learn. Nothing wrong with challenging per se, as I've done quite a bit of "challenging" and debunking on this, and other, forums, as well as having my research-oriented views published in other media ( e.g. science journal, audio magazine).

    You are using the logical fallacy known as the "bandwagon fallacy". In other words, when someone's view cannot be substantiated based on credible science or other credible evidence, they say that it must be true because a "large" or "much larger" group of people hold the same view. You are also using the logical fallacy known as "ad hominem" where someone's totally unrelated personal characteristics are attacked as a means of devaluing their arguments. Whether or not a member of this forum is a member of a number of "much larger" forums is totally unrelated to the truth of their views.

    People resort to logical fallacies when they know their views or positions to be weak or false, but want (or need) them to be accepted anyway.

    I would be hesitant to bring up your contributions to other audio forums, as I believe some did not go over well at all, if it is the forum I am thinking of, and am a member of.

    I have praised some stuff you say, but I do not blindly agree with anyone.

    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,665
    edited December 2018
    K_M wrote: »
    I would be hesitant to bring up your contributions to other audio forums, as I believe some did not go over well at all, if it is the forum I am thinking of, and am a member of.

    I have praised some stuff you say, but I do not blindly agree with anyone.

    You should take your own advice and be hesitant to accept something just because a "huge" number of people agree with it. You say you don't blindly agree with anyone, but you appear to blindly agree to a concept if a large number of people agree with it.

    There is no need for me to be hesitant about discussing my comments on other forums because I have consistently based my views on credible science and my own credible personal experience.

    Again, my interest is in learning and sharing credible information, and not being "praised".

    As for you, I have never requested blind disagreement. I have only asked you to credibly substantiate your views.

    Again, whether something "goes over well" with a particular group is not an indication of truth. Truth stands on its own, whether 0 or 1 billion people accept it. You seem to be hung up on mass acceptance. I find security and validation in truth and scientific credibility...not in whether or not a lot of people agree with me.


    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,074
    K_M wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

    Not really....a dozen or so of the same guys, saying the same stuff, on a forum with a very small membership, really does nothing to upset me at all.
    If you venture to much larger audio forums, you would see many different views overall.

    I am a member of larger forums, some are better in terms of personal experience with higher quality audio gear and some are overrun by those with little or no personal experience with higher quality gear. It is those inexperienced folks that tend to be the naysayer type. As such there is little to learn from those folks as opposed to this forum where bettering ones audio experience is a common goal making it one of the best audio forums. This forum is also a rather unique in the way many have become good friends and open their doors to just about anyone interested in audio.

    As for you not being upset by being schooled once again proves once again that your mind was and remains closed. In addition, your posts in this thread leave little doubt as to your passive aggressive character trait. Some self reflection on your part could do you well.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,895
    @DarqueKnight I am pretty sure the Saul Alinsky method is being used here.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT - Parasound P6 - Parasound A21+ - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u

    HT - Panasonic BDP/Tivo Bolt - Marantz SR5013 - Def tech C and In ceiling - Sony XBR 75"
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,895
    That’s awesome!! 👏 👏
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT - Parasound P6 - Parasound A21+ - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u

    HT - Panasonic BDP/Tivo Bolt - Marantz SR5013 - Def tech C and In ceiling - Sony XBR 75"
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 26,327
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    If we got F1 into vinyl. We can get K_M into cables!

    that sounds a little funny, out of context.

    :|
  • FaustinFaustin Posts: 988
    I just love these discussions. So much passion. Someone needs to start one titled " What are the best interconnects".
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 26,327
    edited December 2018
    It's an odd thing about which to get passionate, from my perspective. Loudspeakers, sure. Sources ('specially analog ones), no doubt. Amplifiers, all righty then.

    Pieces of wire...


  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    Pieces of wire...


    Lol!
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,074
    Well Mark, I can get passionate about caps, resistors, spikes, speaker stands, binding posts, IEC's, solder, outlets, etc., so why not cables? :)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,860
    F1nut wrote: »
    Well Mark, I can get passionate about caps, resistors, spikes, speaker stands, binding posts, IEC's, solder, outlets, etc., so why not cables? :)

    And now vinyl... Whodathunkit??
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • joecoulson wrote: »
    @DarqueKnight I am pretty sure the Saul Alinsky method is being used here.

    Oh, OK. Thanks. I had to look up Saul Alinsky. In "Rules for Radicals" he wrote:

    "The job of the organizer is to maneuver and bait the establishment so that it will publicly attack him as a 'dangerous enemy'. The hysterical instant reaction of the establishment [will] not only validate [the organizer's] credentials of competency but also ensure automatic popular invitation."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/newt-gingrich-is-a-saul-alinsky-republican-1088701

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    How about Himalayan salt lamps? No joke.... I was reading an article to my wife (basically making fun of) about the use of salt lamps in the listening room.... apparently it benefits sound quality. Can anyone guess what I got for Christmas?
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,105
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    How about Himalayan salt lamps? No joke.... I was reading an article to my wife (basically making fun of) about the use of salt lamps in the listening room.... apparently it benefits sound quality. Can anyone guess what I got for Christmas?

    A heck a lot cheaper than negative ion generators for audio use.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    marvda1 wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    How about Himalayan salt lamps? No joke.... I was reading an article to my wife (basically making fun of) about the use of salt lamps in the listening room.... apparently it benefits sound quality. Can anyone guess what I got for Christmas?

    A heck a lot cheaper than negative ion generators for audio use.

    From what I read there is scientific evidence that it cleans air. So far.. I find it relaxing to use in my listening room.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,322
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    If we got F1 into vinyl. We can get K_M into cables!

    You'll have better luck training me to be a Michael Phelps grade swimmer....

    And if those salt lamps clean the air then the Himalayas and India should be prestine air right.
    LOL
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,895
    Pretty dead on right @DarqueKnight ?
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT - Parasound P6 - Parasound A21+ - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u

    HT - Panasonic BDP/Tivo Bolt - Marantz SR5013 - Def tech C and In ceiling - Sony XBR 75"
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    F1nut wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

    Not really....a dozen or so of the same guys, saying the same stuff, on a forum with a very small membership, really does nothing to upset me at all.
    If you venture to much larger audio forums, you would see many different views overall.


    As for you not being upset by being schooled once again proves once again that your mind was and remains closed. In addition, your posts in this thread leave little doubt as to your passive aggressive character trait. Some self reflection on your part could do you well.

    Some alcohol could do me well also....
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

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