Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

LessisNevermore

vc69 wrote: »

As so many have stated, it may or may not. To me the differences in cables vary from subtle to striking. To me it's a question of economics. I have some average price transparent cables that I can't tell from good cheap no-names. I also have some extremely expensive Cardas cables that I find to be amazing. I had no idea what they cost when I listened to them and decided they were the ones I "had to have". Turns out I could never afford them (over $1k IC's, ridiculous). But I definitely like them better than any other cable I have heard in my system.

I think part of this discussion's never-ending nature is that some people just can't hear those subtle differences. I say good for them.
But the non believers never seem to be able to say to us "good for you" and be done with it.

The subtle differences are not_so_subtle when you are familiar with the system and source material. If I couldn't hear the differences, I wouldn't bother with it. I can.

/.02

Ok, let me try this another way.....but you're correct. The manufacturers want to keep their recipes a secret.

Guitar strings are available in different winds, with different materials, some are cryogenically treated, etc., etc., yada.

The traits each of them have, are known, and can aid in the selection process. There are other variables that come into play, like what kind of wood the guitar is made from, pickups, amps, etc. Variables similar to what we find in our audio gear.

No, you don't know exactly how they'll sound with your gear until you try them, but if you already have bright sounding gear, you probably don't want to add silver wires everywhere.....it would just be easier, to have an idea of a particular cable's traits ahead of time, because I'd rather spend time listening to music, than listening to wires.

F1nut

Actually i never missed that! Clearly you missed that i already understood that lol

Yeah, I guess I did as I was under the impression you knew nothing.

sTiLlLeArNiNg

F1nut wrote: »

Yeah, I guess I did as I was under the impression you knew nothing.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ROTFLMFAO

Assumption is the mother of all fak-up's don't ya know?

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

F1nut

There is a difference between an impression and an assumption. An assumption would indicate a guess based on little to no facts. An impression is based on facts and since you said you didn't know jack, my impression that you don't know jack remains accurate. However, your assumption is clearly without merit.

kawizx9r

Geez, I just went back and read some of those posts.

I'd just like to say one word to the one that thinks he's learning around here, hypocrite.

To the rest on here that have helped me out along the way to make my setup sound better than it used to, thank you.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the music. :cool:

vc69

LessisNevermore wrote: »

Ok, let me try this another way.....but you're correct. The manufacturers want to keep their recipes a secret.

.....it would just be easier, to have an idea of a particular cable's traits ahead of time, because I'd rather spend time listening to music, than listening to wires.

I agree 100%.

Some manufacturers are more forthcoming than others. I am leery of any that are unwilling to disclose things like materials used and so on. That said, each cable company seems to have different ideas about interleave and twist, number of conductors, dielectric components, etc.
I don't really care about any of that crap. If it sounds better to me, I'd like to understand why.
Fact is, I don't have a background in physics so it escapes me. What doesn't is the result. Certain cables make my system sound a little better to me. That I know for sure.

I'm not sure there is any way to quantify this. I think that it's different for different systems. The cables I like in my setup may not be the ones you would like in yours and so on.

Guitar strings are much the same. I may like Dean Markley on my Tele and Silk on Steele Martins on my Takamine. You could have exactly the same instruments and think I was crazy. Some may be able to tell the difference in the way they sound, some may not. We could though, because we know our instruments. String players prefer certain rosins and such. I might not be able to tell a difference, but because they are intimately familiar with their instruments, they definitely can and who would I be to question their choices?

I actually think the string analogy is a good one. It's just that differences in speaker wire and in particular IC cables is quite a bit more subtle and dependent on synergy with the other components. Also, and quite unfortunately for me, the expensive ones seem to give the most pleasing results. The Cardas cables I am currently using are quite striking. I would challenge anybody NOT to hear a difference.
Not worth the over $2k retail price to me. But definitely the best I have ever heard.

In the end, it is the music that matters, but I do so love to hear it reproduced well.:)

vc69

vc69 wrote: »

Not worth the over $2k retail price to me. But definitely the best I have ever heard.

I should point out for posterity that I have two pair in play, a 2m set of Gold Standards and a set of prototype's that a friend loaned me. They are both amazing but the prototype set is just stunning between my amp and preamp. They are probably worth more than the gear they are connected to.

everpress

There is a hi-fi shop somewhat close to me that I've found on the interbuttz; before I hit just one, I'd like to see if I can hit more than one all at once. I want to audition some cable and make comparison. I can't tell **** with numbers anyway and from what I keep reading, while there could be numbers to back claims, it keeps coming to preference.

So I'll look for a bang-to-buck ratio.

I think someone posted two brands of cables in one post on here... Could've been oine of the George's or F1nut... One of them was Bluejean Cables but I can't remember the other... Both seemed reasonable in price (to me, not my wife!).

So, two prong request: 1) if anyone knows of any other hi-fi shops in the Cincinnati area, please fess up. Maybe we can make a day of comparing cable? 2)I don't remember what page the reasonably priced cable was... but if anyone as any other ideas for pure budget band-for-your-buck cabling, I'd like to look at it. I realize that 'budget' for some of you rich mo-fo's means something different than it does for some of us...

concealer404

everpress wrote: »

There is a hi-fi shop somewhat close to me that I've found on the interbuttz; before I hit just one, I'd like to see if I can hit more than one all at once. I want to audition some cable and make comparison. I can't tell **** with numbers anyway and from what I keep reading, while there could be numbers to back claims, it keeps coming to preference.

So I'll look for a bang-to-buck ratio.

I think someone posted two brands of cables in one post on here... Could've been oine of the George's or F1nut... One of them was Bluejean Cables but I can't remember the other... Both seemed reasonable in price (to me, not my wife!).

So, two prong request: 1) if anyone knows of any other hi-fi shops in the Cincinnati area, please fess up. Maybe we can make a day of comparing cable? 2)I don't remember what page the reasonably priced cable was... but if anyone as any other ideas for pure budget band-for-your-buck cabling, I'd like to look at it. I realize that 'budget' for some of you rich mo-fo's means something different than it does for some of us...

Blue Jeans, Monoprice.

I run Audioquest Sidewinders. They're very reasonable in price for what you get. I love them. They pop up from time to time here for VERY cheap. I have 4 pairs of them, i can usually get my local shop to give them to me for $40 a 1m pair if i buy more than one pair at a time.

jinjuku

Kex wrote: »

You totally missed the point I was making. You drew a comparison earlier to people criticizing expensive gear, just because it was expensive, with those that criticize Emotiva's "affordable" gear, just because it's Emotiva and not an expensive, established brand such as X, Y, or Z.

If one listens to Emotiva gear, and finds it lacking, and then reports one's findings on an internet forum such as C.P., one is not bashing Emotiva. The person reporting did not like it, when compared to other equipment within that person's experience, and it's as simple as that. Many Emotiva owners (and they seem to be large majority) have difficulty in taking negative evaluations at face value. In their opinion, the person reporting must have some axe to grind, or some other reason that explains this ridiculous (perceived) hatred for Emotiva.

I don't know if its that. What my perception at PF has been is more blanket recommendations of get a 'real' amp (used if you have to). Usually involving Adcom/Rotel/Parasound/B&K etc... Instead of more sage advice of try it out and use your ears.

There is another thread here that goes to proving my point.

bikezappa

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I do love them. I really do.

I did not see in this case, and never have seen, an example of a cable enthusiast insulting or mocking someone only because they chose not to use a higher performance power cord.

You have mocked me and many others for not buying into your fuse testing.

everpress

concealer404 wrote: »

Blue Jeans, Monoprice.

I run Audioquest Sidewinders. They're very reasonable in price for what you get. I love them. They pop up from time to time here for VERY cheap. I have 4 pairs of them, i can usually get my local shop to give them to me for $40 a 1m pair if i buy more than one pair at a time.

Thanks- I'm looking at Monoprice now. Their 12 gage loudspeaker cabling is super cheap. I might order a couple hundred feet for these prices... Seriously.

I went to Audioquest's site... Jeebus, you are getting a good deal for your cables... But that's way too rich for my blood right now.

I think Bluejean's are about as high as I'm able to go, but they are 3 or 4 times as expensive as the monoprice...

hmmmm.....

heiney9

everpress wrote: »

Thanks- I'm looking at Monoprice now. Their 12 gage loudspeaker cabling is super cheap. I might order a couple hundred feet for these prices... Seriously.

I went to Audioquest's site... Jeebus, you are getting a good deal for your cables... But that's way too rich for my blood right now.

I think Bluejean's are about as high as I'm able to go, but they are 3 or 4 times as expensive as the monoprice...

hmmmm.....

Try Canare Star Quad from Performance Audio........you can thank me later. Mucho better than Monoprice cable. I have bought from Performance Audio on 2 occasions and they do a nice job. The 4S8 is a good compromise on price vs. performance.

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/search.cgi?search_for=canare

H9

P.s. This is assuming you are looking for bulk wire to terminate yourself.

sTiLlLeArNiNg

F1nut wrote: »

There is a difference between an impression and an assumption. An assumption would indicate a guess based on little to no facts. An impression is based on facts and since you said you didn't know jack, my impression that you don't know jack remains accurate. However, your assumption is clearly without merit.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here you go again with the assumption's, insinuation's and implication's! How old are you, 16? Grow up.

I would like to publicly thank those that have helped answer some of the real question's at hand and supplied us with valuable link's to inform ourselve's with I would also like to pass on a couple link's that were forwarded to me for other's to read:

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf < A LOT of great tech info IMHO

http://www.psaudio.com/ps < Haven't really checked it out much but seem's like they cover many area's as well

Happy listening!

EDIT: heiney thank's for the link to performanceaudio! Canare star quad @ $1.19/foot is too good of a deal to pass up!

everpress

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here you go again with the assumption's, insinuation's and implication's! How old are you, 16? Grow up.

I would like to publicly thank those that have helped answer some of the real question's at hand and supplied us with valuable link's to inform ourselve's with I would also like to pass on a couple link's that were forwarded to me for other's to read:

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf < A LOT of great tech info IMHO

http://www.psaudio.com/ps < Haven't really checked it out much but seem's like they cover many area's as well

Happy listening!

phuz

The copper in my cables was smelted in the depths of hell by a team of Navy Seals. The terminations are plated with pure gold from The One True Ring, and sheilded with the tears of angels.

You too can have cables as good as mine. The cost? Only your soul. PM me for details on where to get them...

TECHNOKID

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

I never once said that i didn't beleive in quality cable's making any noticeble difference, i very much beleive that quality cable's are a necessity! I'm only trying to point out that you can get quality cable's and sound WITHOUT breaking the bank :cool: Why do people misinterpret thing's and put word's in other people's mouth/post?

If you look around the net you can find most, if not all the same cable used to make "high end" cable's and most of it is priced by the foot or meter I would prefer to inform myself on what make's any given cable good or better than another cable and use that info to make an informed purchase and make my own cable's instead of buying them pre-made and paying the extra price for assembly/finish

Being on disability i don't have the disposable income that some have but i do like to have the best that i can afford That's why i was asking about the stranding earlier in post 2013 + 2015....

Below are a few link's that i think carry some pretty good stuff (from what i can tell) in bulk so that you/i/we can make your/our/his own cable's and use the cash saved for some bluray's, vinyl, beer, hooker's, whatever! lol

http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/default.asp
http://www.thecableco.com/index.php
http://www.vhaudio.com/
http://www.markertek.com/index.asp

So again can someone please clarify for us the reason behind the different stranding practice's used? I know that basically it is for "skimming" but i would like to know more

Maybe i asked in the wrong place

Thanks for the info and this post and your questions are quite valid and I would like too to be provided with some answers however...

heiney9 wrote: »

You'll also find by the time you buy all the materials and tools to build your own you'll be at the same cost or more. If you're going to use Techflex you really need a hot knife to do it properly. For the shrink tube a hot air gun works better and look better than anything. Inexpensive units combined will run you about $50, not to mention a good quality wire snipper.

I have made my own, without the above and they won't win any beauty contests. Here's a link............you can't make these cables cheaper. I'd suggest these and be done with it.

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=61

Nicely terminated and sheathed Star Quad type wire

H9

Valid points and thank you for the link! This:

List Price: $244.00 HCM Price: $79.95

really gets me, that sure speaks about the abusive mark-up on those cables!

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

I get it, because i like to save money i am deaf and hear ****?

So basically you (H9) are saying that anything anyone else has is crap because they didn't pay out the nose for it? That has to be one of the MOST ignorant comment's i have ever heard in my life! lol You have absolutely no idea why a given cable is better or worse than another except for the pricing difference lol The store's must love you!
I bet you i could make a complete set of speaker, power and IC cable's for the cost of what you paid for a couple cable's and you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between them Mine may even sound better! lol

Can someone with an open mind and some actual knowledge of cable's please explain a little bit about how the different type's of stranding method's and "gauge blending" affect the sound charecteristic's?

Thank You

EDIT: Just so you know "heiney", which by the way is a perfect screen name for you! I have all the necessary tool's to make cable's i just need the part's and a clean workspace

sTiLlLeArNiNg,

First portion in bold: H9 expressed an opinion and offer your option... What's with the attitude?

Second portion in bold: The way you are replying, can you say YOU have an open mind?

Third in bold: Totally uncalled for! If you are really still learning, advice is you shouldn't turn many potential help against you, right?

sTiLlLeArNiNg, the cable on sale is a godd option when you consider your time spent and all the material you bought. I wouldn't pay 250% for the cable I would definitely consider making it my self knowing I do have the appropriate tools however, if the same cable cost me only 20$ extra than what it could potentially cost me if I make my own, I would then buy since I know my time spent on that cable is definitely worth much more than the extra cost!

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

Who p1ssed in your cornflake's treitz? lol

Still looking for some info on stranding + multi gauge wiring technique's/benefit's

@ inspiredsports: i'm just razzing him the same way he's razzing me

You 1ssed in his cornflakes when you insulted a member he consider has highly regarded on this forum!!!

Kex wrote: »

sTiLlLeArNiNg, I hope that you are drunk or something. H9 was trying to help you IMO, and offer suggestions that might give you food for thought. You turned around and insulted him, so if you weren't drunk, you were very rude without an excuse. Your not LeArNiNg very fast at this pace IMO. Cool down and don't drink and post!

+1

heiney9 wrote: »

Because I'm am elitist hi-fi snob and I say so!! .

So mums the word on the GDA700 you bought from my brother as well as the Dared Mp5. I've been waiting to hear a little feedback.

In general having the conductors overlapping at close to a 90 degree angle from one another cancels out EMF/RFI. Seriously, I did a lot of reading a few years ago and I just don't have the info at my finger tips, but it's out there if you have some time to do some digging.

H9

Makes sense, it somehow deflect the typical induction patern between the inductors... and potentially have an effect on the capacitance also???

heiney9 wrote: »

Duell,

Google "Litz" and that should give you plenty to ponder.

Here's the Wiki to get you started. This is the principle behind Canare's Stad Quad and other "twisted" type winding patterns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire

Very interesting link with lots of good info however, at the earlier stage of this thread, I was bashed for providing wiki links

Some I have issue with are the comments that the flowing of current is happening mainly on the top of the conductor(s)... Logic is flow of electrons and protons are happening through the entire conductor therefore can someone elaborate on those comments (flow mainly through the surface of the conductor)?

Cheers!
TK

vc69

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Some I have issue with are the comments that the flowing of current is happening mainly on the top of the conductor(s)... Logic is flow of electrons and protons are happening through the entire conductor therefore can someone elaborate on those comments (flow mainly through the surface of the conductor)?

Cheers!
TK

Electrons travel on the surface area, not within the conductor. It's physics.

sTiLlLeArNiNg

^^ Am i correct in thinking that this is due to electron's always taking the path of least resistance?

sTiLlLeArNiNg

everpress wrote: »

yummeh! Cotton candy

Anyone see "Bucket list" with him and Jack Nicholson? Freekin' hilarious IMO

gavn8r

This year at RMAF we at MIT Cables demonstrated the difference between "just cable" and high-end networked cable. Specifically, we were using Bruce Brisson's Giant Killer Speaker Cable. During the show I must have done over 100 demos. Not one time did somebody say, "I couldn't hear the difference." Almost everyone said they definitely preferred the networked cables. One person said to me that he could hear a difference, but wasn't sure which he preferred. I thought that was a fair comment. High-end audio is very subjective.

F1nut

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here you go again with the assumption's, insinuation's and implication's! How old are you, 16? Grow up.

It cracks me up when folks like you pull the, "how old are you" line. A sure sign that the bag is empty.

treitz3

He's got a bag? Was it caught in the maxi pad or what? Human kind must have missed it.

F1nut

treitz3 wrote: »

He's got a bag?

Just a play on BDT's, "Big 'ol bag of nothing".

Lowell_M

F1nut wrote: »

Brock rocks!

+1 LearningDissability just fell into the giant bag of dicks that is forming around here as far as I'm concerned simply from the posts to H9.

Brock is a stand up guy who is on a never ending quest for better audio and tries to help others on the way. Case in point - I would have much more money to spend on other things if I wouldn't have met him and demoed his equipment in my house 2 years ago.

Lowell_M

heiney9 wrote: »

Duell, in my experience multi strand "twisted" wire seems to sound better than straight multi-strand wire. The Star Quad I use in the office rig is a great sounding cable for not a lot of money. I made them myself (Canare bulk wire). Sound a lot better (smoother, more dynamic) than regular rip cord or M cable of the same gauge or larger.

I used to have a bunch of links about "twisted pairs" but I can't locate them, a good Google search should yield a lot of info. If I run across anything I'll PM you.

H9

P.s. I can set you up with a retailer that sells Canare Star Quad in bulk for the cheapest I've seen it. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. A very inexpensive way to get your ears on it. If I had something else to run in the office rig I'd let you borrow my homemade set to see if you like.

Brock, Do you know how the Signal Cable Ultra Bi-wire differs (other than being a biwire cable) from the Canare? I had my home made star quads in my 2-channel and when swithing to the Signals it was as if a veil was lifted from my system. Much more open and detailed. I was impressed with the Star Quads to begin with, but the Signals are another step up. (with a higher price tag as well, of course)

sTiLlLeArNiNg

F1nut wrote: »

It cracks me up when folks like you pull the, "how old are you" line. A sure sign that the bag is empty.

It crack's me up to see you continuing to act like a child instead of growing up and being a man! Now THAT is a sign of the "bag" being empty. LOL

Lowell_M wrote: »

+1 LearningDissability just fell into the giant bag of dicks that is forming around here

You have something against disabled people? or do you just feel the need to pretend you're cool? For your information i am disabled and i don't take kindly to you insulting me in this manner, but i know you don't care because you are ignorant. TBH as far as i am concerned you are both ignorant and not worth any more of my time. When person's act like this it give's a bad rep for the forum, and it's probably why there is more SPAM posted here than anything....

In Canada the only time we troll is when we're in the water lookin' for fishies

I will continue to assist anyone in anyway that i possibly can and contribute as much as possible to the forum regardless of the few feeble minded person's that are floating around.

Again i would like to thank those who have contributed usefull information both in the thread and via PM, it is MUCH appreciated!

I should be getting some cable supplies in a week or two and will post a thread on my "build" as i go along. In order to keep the cost's down and maintain simplicity i decided to use the often reccomended and decently reviewed Canare 4s11 for my first attempt at cable building. I know it is not the greatest cable but it should net me some improvement over the 16g rocketfish i'm currently using After i familiarize myself some with cable's and get some extra scratch together i will move up to better cable's and do another build

Cheer's!

vc69

Stillwhateveryouthinkisright...

Know what dude? I have tried to tolerate your crap, but in the past two days you have earned the dubious distinction of being the first member to make my ignore list. You bring less than nothing to my experience here at Club Polk, and your insults are completely out of line.

*poof*

anhchungdoan

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

avoir un bon repos et nous te voir demain, bonne nuit mon amis!

Hey, S:)till learning, what's happening to Salvatore Adamo ? Canadian French, Isn't he? He's got some nice recording back in the 80s. Haven't heard much of the guy laterly.

nooshinjohn

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