Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited October 2009
    The copper in my cables was smelted in the depths of hell by a team of Navy Seals. The terminations are plated with pure gold from The One True Ring, and sheilded with the tears of angels.

    You too can have cables as good as mine. The cost? Only your soul. PM me for details on where to get them...
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    I never once said that i didn't beleive in quality cable's making any noticeble difference, i very much beleive that quality cable's are a necessity! I'm only trying to point out that you can get quality cable's and sound WITHOUT breaking the bank :cool: Why do people misinterpret thing's and put word's in other people's mouth/post?

    If you look around the net you can find most, if not all the same cable used to make "high end" cable's and most of it is priced by the foot or meter :) I would prefer to inform myself on what make's any given cable good or better than another cable and use that info to make an informed purchase and make my own cable's instead of buying them pre-made and paying the extra price for assembly/finish ;)

    Being on disability i don't have the disposable income that some have but i do like to have the best that i can afford :o That's why i was asking about the stranding earlier in post 2013 + 2015.... :o

    Below are a few link's that i think carry some pretty good stuff (from what i can tell) in bulk so that you/i/we can make your/our/his own cable's and use the cash saved for some bluray's, vinyl, beer, hooker's, whatever! lol

    http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/default.asp
    http://www.thecableco.com/index.php
    http://www.vhaudio.com/
    http://www.markertek.com/index.asp

    So again can someone please clarify for us the reason behind the different stranding practice's used? I know that basically it is for "skimming" but i would like to know more :o

    Maybe i asked in the wrong place :confused:
    Thanks for the info and this post and your questions are quite valid and I would like too to be provided with some answers however...
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You'll also find by the time you buy all the materials and tools to build your own you'll be at the same cost or more. If you're going to use Techflex you really need a hot knife to do it properly. For the shrink tube a hot air gun works better and look better than anything. Inexpensive units combined will run you about $50, not to mention a good quality wire snipper.

    I have made my own, without the above and they won't win any beauty contests. Here's a link............you can't make these cables cheaper. I'd suggest these and be done with it.

    http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=61

    Nicely terminated and sheathed Star Quad type wire

    H9
    Valid points and thank you for the link! This:
    List Price: $244.00 HCM Price: $79.95
    really gets me, that sure speaks about the abusive mark-up on those cables!
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    I get it, because i like to save money i am deaf and hear ****?

    So basically you (H9) are saying that anything anyone else has is crap because they didn't pay out the nose for it? That has to be one of the MOST ignorant comment's i have ever heard in my life! lol You have absolutely no idea why a given cable is better or worse than another except for the pricing difference lol The store's must love you!
    I bet you i could make a complete set of speaker, power and IC cable's for the cost of what you paid for a couple cable's and you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between them :) Mine may even sound better! lol

    Can someone with an open mind and some actual knowledge of cable's please explain a little bit about how the different type's of stranding method's and "gauge blending" affect the sound charecteristic's?

    Thank You

    EDIT: Just so you know "heiney", which by the way is a perfect screen name for you! I have all the necessary tool's to make cable's i just need the part's and a clean workspace :D
    sTiLlLeArNiNg,

    First portion in bold: H9 expressed an opinion and offer your option... What's with the attitude?

    Second portion in bold: The way you are replying, can you say YOU have an open mind?

    Third in bold: Totally uncalled for! If you are really still learning, advice is you shouldn't turn many potential help against you, right?

    sTiLlLeArNiNg, the cable on sale is a godd option when you consider your time spent and all the material you bought. I wouldn't pay 250% for the cable I would definitely consider making it my self knowing I do have the appropriate tools however, if the same cable cost me only 20$ extra than what it could potentially cost me if I make my own, I would then buy since I know my time spent on that cable is definitely worth much more than the extra cost!


    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    Who p1ssed in your cornflake's treitz? lol

    Still looking for some info on stranding + multi gauge wiring technique's/benefit's :o

    @ inspiredsports: i'm just razzing him the same way he's razzing me :)
    You 1ssed in his cornflakes when you insulted a member he consider has highly regarded on this forum!!!
    Kex wrote: »
    sTiLlLeArNiNg, I hope that you are drunk or something. H9 was trying to help you IMO, and offer suggestions that might give you food for thought. You turned around and insulted him, so if you weren't drunk, you were very rude without an excuse. Your not LeArNiNg very fast at this pace IMO. Cool down and don't drink and post!
    +1
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Because I'm am elitist hi-fi snob and I say so!! :D:p.

    So mums the word on the GDA700 you bought from my brother as well as the Dared Mp5. I've been waiting to hear a little feedback. ;)

    In general having the conductors overlapping at close to a 90 degree angle from one another cancels out EMF/RFI. Seriously, I did a lot of reading a few years ago and I just don't have the info at my finger tips, but it's out there if you have some time to do some digging.

    H9
    Makes sense, it somehow deflect the typical induction patern between the inductors... and potentially have an effect on the capacitance also???
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Duell,

    Google "Litz" and that should give you plenty to ponder.

    Here's the Wiki to get you started. This is the principle behind Canare's Stad Quad and other "twisted" type winding patterns

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
    Very interesting link with lots of good info however, at the earlier stage of this thread, I was bashed for providing wiki links ;)

    Some I have issue with are the comments that the flowing of current is happening mainly on the top of the conductor(s)... Logic is flow of electrons and protons are happening through the entire conductor therefore can someone elaborate on those comments (flow mainly through the surface of the conductor)?

    Cheers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2009
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    Some I have issue with are the comments that the flowing of current is happening mainly on the top of the conductor(s)... Logic is flow of electrons and protons are happening through the entire conductor therefore can someone elaborate on those comments (flow mainly through the surface of the conductor)?

    Cheers!
    TK

    Electrons travel on the surface area, not within the conductor. It's physics.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    ^^ Am i correct in thinking that this is due to electron's always taking the path of least resistance? :confused:
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    everpress wrote: »
    1834.jpg

    yummeh! Cotton candy :D

    Anyone see "Bucket list" with him and Jack Nicholson? Freekin' hilarious IMO
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • gavn8r
    gavn8r Posts: 53
    edited October 2009
    This year at RMAF we at MIT Cables demonstrated the difference between "just cable" and high-end networked cable. Specifically, we were using Bruce Brisson's Giant Killer Speaker Cable. During the show I must have done over 100 demos. Not one time did somebody say, "I couldn't hear the difference." Almost everyone said they definitely preferred the networked cables. One person said to me that he could hear a difference, but wasn't sure which he preferred. I thought that was a fair comment. High-end audio is very subjective.
    mitcables.com
    audioevo.org/mitcables
    twitter.com/mitcables
    facebook.com/morethanjustcables
    youtube.com/mitcables
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here you go again with the assumption's, insinuation's and implication's! How old are you, 16? Grow up.

    It cracks me up when folks like you pull the, "how old are you" line. A sure sign that the bag is empty.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited October 2009
    He's got a bag? Was it caught in the maxi pad or what? Human kind must have missed it.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    He's got a bag?

    Just a play on BDT's, "Big 'ol bag of nothing". :D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Brock rocks!

    +1 LearningDissability just fell into the giant bag of dicks that is forming around here as far as I'm concerned simply from the posts to H9.

    Brock is a stand up guy who is on a never ending quest for better audio and tries to help others on the way. Case in point - I would have much more money to spend on other things if I wouldn't have met him and demoed his equipment in my house 2 years ago.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Duell, in my experience multi strand "twisted" wire seems to sound better than straight multi-strand wire. The Star Quad I use in the office rig is a great sounding cable for not a lot of money. I made them myself (Canare bulk wire). Sound a lot better (smoother, more dynamic) than regular rip cord or M cable of the same gauge or larger.

    I used to have a bunch of links about "twisted pairs" but I can't locate them, a good Google search should yield a lot of info. If I run across anything I'll PM you.

    H9

    P.s. I can set you up with a retailer that sells Canare Star Quad in bulk for the cheapest I've seen it. Shoot me a PM if you're interested. A very inexpensive way to get your ears on it. If I had something else to run in the office rig I'd let you borrow my homemade set to see if you like.

    Brock, Do you know how the Signal Cable Ultra Bi-wire differs (other than being a biwire cable) from the Canare? I had my home made star quads in my 2-channel and when swithing to the Signals it was as if a veil was lifted from my system. Much more open and detailed. I was impressed with the Star Quads to begin with, but the Signals are another step up. (with a higher price tag as well, of course)
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    It cracks me up when folks like you pull the, "how old are you" line. A sure sign that the bag is empty.

    It crack's me up to see you continuing to act like a child instead of growing up and being a man! Now THAT is a sign of the "bag" being empty. LOL
    Lowell_M wrote: »
    +1 LearningDissability just fell into the giant bag of dicks that is forming around here

    You have something against disabled people? or do you just feel the need to pretend you're cool? For your information i am disabled and i don't take kindly to you insulting me in this manner, but i know you don't care because you are ignorant. TBH as far as i am concerned you are both ignorant and not worth any more of my time. When person's act like this it give's a bad rep for the forum, and it's probably why there is more SPAM posted here than anything....

    In Canada the only time we troll is when we're in the water lookin' for fishies :)

    I will continue to assist anyone in anyway that i possibly can and contribute as much as possible to the forum regardless of the few feeble minded person's that are floating around.

    Again i would like to thank those who have contributed usefull information both in the thread and via PM, it is MUCH appreciated! :D

    I should be getting some cable supplies in a week or two and will post a thread on my "build" as i go along. In order to keep the cost's down and maintain simplicity i decided to use the often reccomended and decently reviewed Canare 4s11 for my first attempt at cable building. I know it is not the greatest cable but it should net me some improvement over the 16g rocketfish i'm currently using :o After i familiarize myself some with cable's and get some extra scratch together i will move up to better cable's and do another build :)

    Cheer's!
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2009
    Stillwhateveryouthinkisright...

    Know what dude? I have tried to tolerate your crap, but in the past two days you have earned the dubious distinction of being the first member to make my ignore list. You bring less than nothing to my experience here at Club Polk, and your insults are completely out of line.

    *poof*
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    avoir un bon repos et nous te voir demain, bonne nuit mon amis! :)

    Hey, S:)till learning, what's happening to Salvatore Adamo ? Canadian French, Isn't he? He's got some nice recording back in the 80s. Haven't heard much of the guy laterly.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited October 2009
    deleted....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »
    I have a good news for you Mr."english" and your AvS forum, I have found a couples of physical threats not to me but to other posters. Please forgive my ignorance in computer stuff, I will have my children to teach me how to copy and paste then will have those uncivilized and uncharacteristic threats over here. I've tried do it myself but it did not work. Afterall, I am a caveman.

    When I do not know but as I said : " I have made a promise, I will deliver". Enjoy your football game(s). It will be done as I pronmise. :D

    I noticed something for some time now. All of your posts reference back to krell something, and someone starting a fight something. Something something. I am not sure what it is after reading so many of your posts about so many somethings. One thing I am almost certain of... You are that GEICO GUY!

    One that spotted the Caveman!

    Halen
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    I noticed something for some time now. All of your posts reference back to krell something, and someone starting a fight something. Something something. I am not sure what it is after reading so many of your posts about so many somethings. One thing I am almost certain of... You are that GEICO GUY!

    One that spotted the Caveman!

    Halen

    Sorry! the matter is between me and Williams2 and I have said I would drop it. Yes, I have own a Krell product, should I be ashamed of it? Should I keep my mouth shut when some guy over AVS claimed there was no audible differences among amps ( Carver and Krell).

    If you do not know what transpired over the AVS forum ( when a AVS special member threatened a physical fight in 2 different occasions with 2 diffrent visitors) please do not jump in with your nonsense conclusion.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »
    Sorry! the matter is between me and Williams2 and I have said I would drop it. Yes, I have own a Krell product, should I be ashamed of it? Should I keep my mouth shut when some guy over AVS claimed there was no audible differences among amps ( Carver and Krell).

    If you do not know what transpired over the AVS forum ( when a AVS special member threatened a physical fight in 2 different occasions with 2 diffrent visitors) please do not jump in with your nonsense conclusion.

    The only problem is your problem. This is not your AVS forum. You are in a whole different place.

    My conclusion, you are a drama queen. That is my impression of you.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    It crack's me up to see you continuing to act like a child instead of growing up and being a man! Now THAT is a sign of the "bag" being empty. LOL

    Hilarious stuff coming from the guy who hasn't made a single contribution or a single friend for that matter. Must really suck to be you.

    The BOZO list grows again.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »

    My conclusion, you are a drama queen.

    Hehe....that's going to leave a mark!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    You keep stating "Mr. Scientist", and "I am a caveman", ****. No drama allowed. Violaters will be **** slapped!

    Halen
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    The only problem is your problem. This is not your AVS forum. You are in a whole different place.

    My conclusion, you are a drama queen. That is my impression of you.

    That's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. I do not run around and bite people. Frankly, my dear, I do not give a damn what you think.

    Look youself in a mirror before criticize some else. I do not believe today is the end of the month yet. :D
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    You keep stating "Mr. Scientist", and "I am a caveman", ****. No drama allowed. Violaters will be **** slapped!

    Halen

    I do not know you from Adam but judging by your language in the public, I have an idea where you are coming from.

    Man is a creature of habit that passes on from generation to generation. It is a vicious circle. So I do not blame you at all. The apple does not fall far from the tree, you know that!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    Why should I look at myself in the mirror? I am completely content with myself and my belongings. I have nothing to prove to anyone what so ever. Get a grip of yourself. You have a sense of where I am coming from? Really? I would not expect anything less from the caveman drama queen that you are.
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    You keep stating "Mr. Scientist", and "I am a caveman", ****. No drama allowed. Violaters will be **** slapped!

    Halen

    Well, why haven't you dropped a F bomb ? What are you waiting for? Do not hold back and try to be someone your are not. Go ahead. It must be a nice four letter word coming out of your mouth. :D
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    Why should I look at myself in the mirror? I am completely content with myself and my belongings. I have nothing to prove to anyone what so ever. Get a grip of yourself. You have a sense of where I am coming from? Really? I would not expect anything less from the caveman drama queen that you are.

    You seem to be good at reading but not at comprehension. Your language reflects your culture, your background, your enviroment where you grow up. That's what I am try to convey the messge to you. Again, the apple does not fall far from the tree, if you know what I mean. :D
    .
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »
    That's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. I do not run around and bite people. Frankly, my dear, I do not give a damn what you think.

    Look youself in a mirror before criticize some else. I do not believe today is the end of the month yet. :D


    Eat your words. I do not by any extent "bite people". You are running around on this forum like a dog in heat. Look at what you have stated. Said person trie to fight me, blah blah blah. Where is the evidence to show? You referenced someone else, but acted as if it were yourself. Come on Drama! What are you trying to prove? What? I have tried and reread your post so many times, with no conclusion.
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    Why should I look at myself in the mirror? I am completely content with myself and my belongings. I have nothing to prove to anyone what so ever. Get a grip of yourself. You have a sense of where I am coming from? Really? I would not expect anything less from the caveman drama queen that you are.


    Again, this is your opinion and keep it to yourself. I will not lower myself to your level by using profanity language here but you have your own choice to express yourself. :D
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,394
    edited October 2009
    The apple that fell far from the tree, is the same apple that is telling you, that you are an idiot.
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    halenhoang wrote: »
    Eat your words. I do not by any extent "bite people". You are running around on this forum like a dog in heat. Look at what you have stated. Said person trie to fight me, blah blah blah. Where is the evidence to show? You referenced someone else, but acted as if it were yourself. Come on Drama! What are you trying to prove? What? I have tried and reread your post so many times, with no conclusion.

    Why this is your concern? Do you own this forum ? You do not want to prove anything or have nothing to prove that frankly I do not give a crap. It's not my concern. My concern is not to disgrace my ancestors by spitting out dirty language . :DPeople who brought me up deserve better than that. Reflect that upon yourself and people who brought you up.
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