Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

You know Tom, I was going to say something about that, but figured that since it already buzzed the tower once that a second time wasn't worth the effort.

Stop making me spit coffee at the screen.....jeez man.:D You are right though,once around for the slow folks,after that,the hell with it.

inspiredsports

speakergeek wrote: »

What the heck is spearker cable????

Same difference as "spearkergeek"

Face

http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/

vc69

Face wrote: »

http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/

Who'd a thunk we weren't just justifying our expenditures?

F1nut

Face wrote: »

http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/

Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:

jinjuku

So I see the Signal Cable offers 30 day in home trials. You just have to worry about the shipping. Cool.

From the Signal Cable website on their 'Analog Two' HT RCA snake cable: this is a reference quality interconnect

I believe AQ unfortunately charges a 20% restock fee. I don't know about KK or MIT.

With a decent amount of ID speaker companies allowing for in home trials I am not sure why with something that isn't as labor intensive or bulky to ship as cables isn't offered. I would think it would be a way to increase sales.

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:

Gotta love the way "believers" will accept anything the manufacturer's claim without question. :rolleyes:

jinjuku

F1nut wrote: »

Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:

As far as their research: For it to have any scientific merit it has to be reproducible. That is the gist of what some of the comments are getting at. I would simply wait for the peer review process to finish.

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote: »

Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. :rolleyes:

I do love them. I really do.

"On the other hand, if you want to insult us "wallpluggers" then expect to be mocked since you are apparently unable to understand basic science." Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 8:59 AM — By Tim L

I did not see in this case, and never have seen, an example of a cable enthusiast insulting or mocking someone only because they chose not to use a higher performance power cord.

"It really irritates me when I see a five or six figure system sitting in a room with glass walls and marble floors. Inevitably these are the systems with the most expensive cables and other sorts of "tweaks"". Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 12:05 PM — By Tim McGeary

I often see comments like this. I don't see any rational reason for anyone to get "irritated" by the wall and floor finishes someone else chooses for their listening room. Some people just like a more "lively" room. It's their house.:)

---

By the way, I have been working on some power infrastructure upgrades for my home theater system. The discontinued xStream Statement SC and xStream Premier SC power cords are being "dumped" at xStreamly attractive prices.

I just picked up nine 2 meter Statement SC power cords at $125 each (+$10 each for shipping) for the components in my HT system. Regular retail was $629. I am replacing all of the Signal Cable MagicPower cords.

More later.

inspiredsports

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Gotta love the way "believers" will accept anything the manufacturer's claim without question. :rolleyes:

Hi William,

We've never "met" before in the forums I guess, but from what I've read above, it seems you've been at it a long time and don't give much credence to the effectiveness of expensive wire.

I'm sure some do, but I don't give a lot of weight to published specs.

I do listen to music between 6 and 10 hours a day, 6 and sometimes 7 days a week sitting dead center in the "SDA sweetspot" of a fairly decent system.

I've personally found by listening, that various interconnects and speaker cables make a huge difference in the quality of sound coming out of my speakers. I've also found, almost to a 100% correlation, that the higher priced wires sound better.

Respectfully,
Greg

SolidSqual

DarqueKnight wrote: »

"It really irritates me when I see a five or six figure system sitting in a room with glass walls and marble floors. Inevitably these are the systems with the most expensive cables and other sorts of "tweaks"". Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 12:05 PM — By Tim McGeary

I often see comments like this. I don't see any rational reason for anyone to get "irritated" by the wall and floor finishes someone else chooses for their listening room. Some people just like a more "lively" room. It's their house.:)

I find criticisms such as the one described here are brought by people who may not be able to afford nicer gear, and feel someone who can afford nice gear and furthermore has the audacity to put it in a nice house . . . well, that person is a real snobby **** in their book.

WilliamM2

inspiredsports wrote: »

I've personally found by listening, that various interconnects and speaker cables make a huge difference in the quality of sound coming out of my speakers. I've also found, almost to a 100% correlation, that the higher priced wires sound better.

Respectfully,
Greg

I used to think the same thing. Then I did an honest blind listening test. Suddenly those "huge" differences disappeared, not just for me, but for all the other participants as well.

For some reason, we could all hear the "huge" differences when we knew which cables were being used, go figure.

TECHNOKID

SolidSqual wrote: »

I find criticisms such as the one described here are brought by people who may not be able to afford nicer gear, and feel someone who can afford nice gear and furthermore has the audacity to put it in a nice house . . . well, that person is a real snobby **** in their book.

OK, I think the issue is material that is not suitable for sound (IE: Glass walls and marbles) ratter than the looks. Big $$$ in sound equipment which is not optimized due to poor sound management material used for walling/ceiling/flooring. That is the point being made, NOT the looks or the expense.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I used to think the same thing. Then I did an honest blind listening test. Suddenly those "huge" differences disappeared, not just for me, but for all the other participants as well.

For some reason, we could all hear the "huge" differences when we knew which cables were being used, go figure.

Now, if you go back up in the discussion, you will notice that many don't see blind testing as an accurate mean to prove the usefullness or uselessness of the cable comparision.

This subject has proven to be a very sensitive issue and there is no way to solve this issue with any technical, scientific or practical experience. Technical and scientific will say nay while the listener will say yay and your own post proves this by your own statements:

Then I did an honest blind listening test. Suddenly those "huge" differences disappeared,

Your personal listening experience said YES while your technical experiment said NO. So, now you choose to trustt the technical/scientific testing over the listening experience while many choose to trust their listening experience instead. Thus, the entire discussion is simply subjective to ones preference, belief and/or experience.

Cheers!
TK

SolidSqual

TECHNOKID wrote: »

OK, I think the issue is material that is not suitable for sound (IE: Glass walls and marbles) ratter than the looks. Big $$$ in sound equipment which is not optimized due to poor sound management material used for walling/ceiling/flooring. That is the point being made, NOT the looks or the expense.

Yes, I understand that. I'm just talking about the underlying motivation whether subliminal or otherwise.

EDIT: Some people like to badmouth gear they can't afford. And then, they convince themselves the gear is not worth the money so they can feel better about it. It's the "snobby audiophile" complex.

anhchungdoan

SolidSqual wrote: »

Yes, I understand that. I'm just talking about the underlying motivation whether subliminal or otherwise.

EDIT: Some people like to badmouth gear they can't afford. And then, they convince themselves the gear is not worth the money so they can feel better about it. It's the "snobby audiophile" complex.

Touche' .:D

DarqueKnight

SolidSqual wrote: »

Some people like to badmouth gear they can't afford. And then, they convince themselves the gear is not worth the money so they can feel better about it.

What? You think it's "sour grapes"?

Nahhhh...it couldn't be that. That would be wrong...and remember: naysayers are the "good" guys.;)

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I absolutely HATE, HATE, HATE expensive cables.

Why? What have expensive cables...and the people who use them...ever done to you?~DK

Nothing! I'm just mad because the only kind of cable that can take the heat down here is 0 gauge steel welding cable.

jinjuku

SolidSqual wrote: »

Yes, I understand that. I'm just talking about the underlying motivation whether subliminal or otherwise.

EDIT: Some people like to badmouth gear they can't afford. And then, they convince themselves the gear is not worth the money so they can feel better about it. It's the "snobby audiophile" complex.

What's worse is some people like to badmouth good gear (IMO) that every one can afford cough Emotiva cough

Face

jinjuku wrote: »

What's worse is some people like to badmouth good gear (IMO) that every one can afford cough Emotiva cough

The irony here is, he is an ex-Emotiva owner.

anhchungdoan

Just received some HDMI 1.3 C.2 from Monoprice. These 24 Gauge HDMI cables with Net Jacket are awesome. They fit perfectly with my Pio gear. I tried to shake them lightly but they refused to come off . Good products for the price. Highly recommended.

Does anyone have good experience with their HDMI switcher?

Toolfan66

Face wrote: »

The irony here is, he is an ex-Emotiva owner.

Touche' :cool:

DarqueKnight

anhchungdoan wrote: »

Just received some HDMI 1.3 C.2 from Monoprice. These 24 Gauge HDMI cables with Net Jacket are awesome. They fit perfectly with my Pio gear. I tried to shake them lightly but they refused to come off . Good products for the price. Highly recommended.

I use the Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cables in my home theater rig. I still have yet to see a performance difference in HDMI cables in my home theater system. Here is a link to an HDMI cable comparison I did a couple months ago: Tweaking Home Theater Pt. 4.

However, I don't doubt that other people, with other eyes, other televisions, other DVD and Blu-ray players, and other associated electronics and speakers DO see and hear a difference.

I am a cable cultist.

SolidSqual

jinjuku wrote: »

What's worse is some people like to badmouth good gear (IMO) that every one can afford cough Emotiva cough

Eh, Emotiva isn't hated just criticized for marketing hype. I love them, just moved past them.

TECHNOKID

SolidSqual wrote: »

Yes, I understand that. I'm just talking about the underlying motivation whether subliminal or otherwise.

EDIT: Some people like to badmouth gear they can't afford. And then, they convince themselves the gear is not worth the money so they can feel better about it. It's the "snobby audiophile" complex.

Gear is a different subject than cables. I am convinced that most people that do not consider the extra expense on high end cable (not meaning garbage cable) consider that higher end gear is futile. I know I don't, there are different class of amping technology and we all know there is a price tag for this. I personnally don't think that for most the cable debate is the same as gear debate.

Now, debate/beliefs/subtility are totally different than hate. No one that believe that high end cables are futile hate those cables or their users... simply a difference of opinions, simply subtle (in that specific discussion anyway).

However, I find arrogant, disrecpectfull people that jumps in discussions on the merit/evaluation/report/testing/reviews of such high end cables where people like DarqueKnight discuss such merits. If you want to read them, do so but refrain from trashing down their reviews. If you can't bear to even read their reviews, refrain from doing so. Why read some you don't believe in (maybe trying to convince your self? )? This discussion is fair for debating the pros and cons but not the discussions dedicated to the believers, who ever does such is rude and arrogant!

Cheers!
TK

Cheers!

anhchungdoan

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I use the Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cables in my home theater rig. I still have yet to see a performance difference in HDMI cables in my home theater system. Here is a link to an HDMI cable comparison I did a couple months ago: Tweaking Home Theater Pt. 4.

However, I don't doubt that other people, with other eyes, other televisions, other DVD and Blu-ray players, and other associated electronics and speakers DO see and hear a difference.

I am a cable cultist.

For abt 8 or 9 bucks a piece , these cables are too good for the price. I don't know much abt digital cable so I cannot say there is any difference or not. Judging by the way they are built, I am happy as long as they support 1080p.

WilliamM2

TECHNOKID wrote: »

This subject has proven to be a very sensitive issue and there is no way to solve this issue with any technical, scientific or practical experience.

With the differences that people describe when listening to cables, it would be easy to settle this.

Your personal listening experience said YES while your technical experiment said NO. So, now you choose to trustt the technical/scientific testing over the listening experience while many choose to trust their listening experience instead.

They were both personal listening experiences. Only difference was, one relied on the ears only.

TECHNOKID

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I use the Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cables in my home theater rig. I still have yet to see a performance difference in HDMI cables in my home theater system. Here is a link to an HDMI cable comparison I did a couple months ago: Tweaking Home Theater Pt. 4.

However, I don't doubt that other people, with other eyes, other televisions, other DVD and Blu-ray players, and other associated electronics and speakers DO see and hear a difference.

I am a cable cultist.

However, it is known that with digital signals don't require higher end cables. 0s and 1s are and will always be 0s and 1s as long as they can go throught the cables (maybe the reason in this case you didn't see subtle differences ). However, you are still right some people will arguee to death that there is (Mon$$ter as an example).

Cheers!
TK

TECHNOKID

WilliamM2 wrote: »

With the differences that people describe when listening to cables, it would be easy to settle this.



They were both personal listening experiences. Only difference was, one relied on the ears only.

But again, many will disagree with you or I! Who's right or wrong, can you honestly say? Do you or I have enough expertise or evidence to determine we are right? If so, this debate would have been long closed

Cheers!
TK

anhchungdoan

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I use the Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cables in my home theater rig. I still have yet to see a performance difference in HDMI cables in my home theater system. Here is a link to an HDMI cable comparison I did a couple months ago: Tweaking Home Theater Pt. 4.

However, I don't doubt that other people, with other eyes, other televisions, other DVD and Blu-ray players, and other associated electronics and speakers DO see and hear a difference.

I am a cable cultist.

Sorry to be off the subject. Since you have the BDP09, please tell me about its analog performance. I have the BDP95/bdp51/ 58 and I am quite happy with their 2 channel analog ouput. Love to upgrade to the 09 but the price bracket is way above my head.

Kex

jinjuku wrote: »

What's worse is some people like to badmouth good gear (IMO) that every one can afford cough Emotiva cough

Actually, you got that backwards, to some extent. Emotiva fanboys want everyone to admit several things that not everyone is prepared to accept as truth:

1) Emotiva is better than ALL expensive equipment. Those who have owned expensive equipment and are prepared to buy Emotiva and love it are invited to join the Emotiva Lounge immediately and proclaim said discovery ASAP. Just admit it: expensive equipment cannot ever sound better than Emotiva.

2) Emotiva is great. If you don't like it, you're wrong. There is no possible way you could have listened objectively and not thought it was great too.

3) Specifications are everything! They are the truth, they are the path, they are the light, they will lead you to salvation and eternal redemption! Emotiva plays the specs. game the same way receiver manufacturers have been doing for years, only they're better at it.

4) Emotiva's "free trial" is awesome, nobody has a better buying experience! Actually, it costs more than a bricks & mortar store's free trial (you don't have to pay to bring it back to a store). All Internet Direct sales models include a "free trial, just pay shipping" clause, including my own sales in the Club Polk Flea Market (no, really ... I keed U not!). They are not being "awesome" or "fantastic", they are doing what it takes to do business via the internet. In fact, here's a company that many will know that really puts its money where it's mouth (mouse) is:

http://www.polkaudio.com/whypolk.php

So Why Buy Direct from Polk Audio? We want your shopping experience from Polk to be as smooth and pleasant as possible. Just click the "Buy Now" button on the top of product pages on polkaudio.com to purchase from us.

...

30-Day Sound Satisfaction Guarantee
You can read spec sheets all day long, but unlike video you can't easily quantify the performance of audio gear. So the best place to audition audio components is in your home, with your favorite material, on your equipment. With Polk's satisfaction guarantee, if you're not totally satisfied, call us up and we'll even pay the return shipping.

TECHNOKID

Kex wrote: »

Actually, you got that backwards, to some extent. Emotiva fanboys want everyone to admit several things that not everyone is prepared to accept as truth:

1) Emotiva is better than ALL expensive equipment. Those who have owned expensive equipment and are prepared to buy Emotiva and love it are invited to join the Emotiva Lounge immediately and proclaim said discovery ASAP. Just admit it: expensive equipment cannot ever sound better than Emotiva.

2) Emotiva is great. If you don't like it, you're wrong. There is no possible way you could have listened objectively and not thought it was great too.

3) Specifications are everything! They are the truth, they are the path, they are the light, they will lead you to salvation and eternal redemption! Emotiva plays the specs. game the same way receiver manufacturers have been doing for years, only they're better at it.

4) Emotiva's "free trial" is awesome, nobody has a better buying experience! Actually, it costs more than an bricks & mortar store's free trial (you don't have to pay to bring it back to a store). All Internet Direct sales models include a "free trial, just pay shipping" clause, including my own sales in the Club Polk Flea Market (no, really ... I keed U not!). They are not being "awesome" or "fantastic", they are doing what it takes to business via the internet. In fact, here's a company that many will know that really puts its money where it's mouth (mouse) is:

http://www.polkaudio.com/whypolk.php

Very well said!