Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited April 2009
    You guys take this stuff far too seriously. Everyone who has a hobby, a passion, loves to take it to the 'nth degree--it's what we do. You are so into it, you want to ensure you are eeking out every last drop of performance. What's to debate? Either you are into hi-fi at that level, or you're not.

    Example; Bev & I recently joined the "Quad nation" of ATV'ers after years of being motorcyclist. I go to a popular forum (Nyroc) to get my learn on...what do I see but a bunch of quad geeks totally re-building what I consider a fine machine out of the box. Why do they do this? Why do they spend all this money on an already highly regarded machine?













    Because they can, and it's what they love. It's just that simple. Are generic cables fine? Sure they are; but if & when you're ready to kick it up a notch, you might want to experiment.

    There's probably a million other anologies relating to photography, art, firearms, fishing, hunting, cars, trucks, etc; whatever your passion(s) may be.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited April 2009
    Hey guys. I've been following this one from the get go. Last night I embarked on an exhaustive effort to search the web for a solution, and I believe I've struck gold. I found this online "cable recommender" where you simply enter all of your parameters, to include room size, shape, speaker and receiver/amp model (and serial number too, in some cases), as well as the length of your required cable runs. You also tell it how much you want to spend. It then spits out a recommendation for cables that are best suited for your particular system. For a modest fee, it will even send you plans for building your own optimal cables, often for just pennies on the dollar. It's awesome!!!

    PM me if you want more info.:)
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited April 2009
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You guys take this stuff far too seriously. Everyone who has a hobby, a passion, loves to take it to the 'nth degree--it's what we do. You are so into it, you want to ensure you are eeking out every last drop of performance. What's to debate? Either you are into hi-fi at that level, or you're not.

    Example; Bev & I recently joined the "Quad nation" of ATV'ers after years of being motorcyclist. I go to a popular forum (Nyroc) to get my learn on...what do I see but a bunch of quad geeks totally re-building what I consider a fine machine out of the box. Why do they do this? Why do they spend all this money on an already highly regarded machine?













    Because they can, and it's what they love. It's just that simple. Are generic cables fine? Sure they are; but if & when you're ready to kick it up a notch, you might want to experiment.

    There's probably a million other anologies relating to photography, art, firearms, fishing, hunting, cars, trucks, etc; whatever your passion(s) may be.
    All very true;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    seafire wrote: »
    True which is why I didn't make the call.Changed my diapers back up and bouncing again:D
    There is no need to call on Polk business for the forum anyway as there is a very convenient button on the left to report any disrecpectfull post however, we have to realize that one shouldn't reply to such post in the first place (see forum rule in that matter) ;)
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited April 2009
    Hey Techno check out my post and link about jitter..you will enjoy
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    ND13 wrote: »
    How long do you think it would take one man to make an exact copy of VH's braided Cat5 in lets say a 10 ft pr?

    I know that when I'm working, my time is worth about $35-40/hr. Several of these fellas make a lot more per hour than I'll ever see. Do the math, they ain't that cheap.

    Most here would rather buy some PROVEN, solidly built cables from an established, reputable cable manufacturer than spend their free time away from their family and friends braiding some cables that are questionably "equal too" what they can get used and are aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

    He shoots, he scores!!!
    +1... Unless I really feel like experimenting, I feel time is money and realize I wouldn't be gaining/saving any by spending that much time creating my own cables.
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    S
    t
    o
    p

    f
    e
    e
    d
    i
    n
    g

    t
    h
    e

    t
    r
    o
    l
    l
    s
    +++++++++++++++++++++++1! The discussion was starting to be somewhat positive, sharing, agree to disagree BUT NOW, THE KIDS BABBLING HAS STARTED ALL OVER! WOULD THERE BE SOME THAT'S WISE AND MATURE ENOUGH TO IGNORE THE TROLLING?????????????? IGNORE THE **** AND THE **** WILL FADE AWAY! FEED IT AND IT WILL STICK?? ANY ADULTS HEARING THIS WILL ACT ACCORDINGLY!

    Cheers :)
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Hey guys. I've been following this one from the get go. Last night I embarked on an exhaustive effort to search the web for a solution, and I believe I've struck gold. I found this online "cable recommender" where you simply enter all of your parameters, to include room size, shape, speaker and receiver/amp model (and serial number too, in some cases), as well as the length of your required cable runs. You also tell it how much you want to spend. It then spits out a recommendation for cables that are best suited for your particular system. For a modest fee, it will even send you plans for building your own optimal cables, often for just pennies on the dollar. It's awesome!!!

    PM me if you want more info.:)
    Is it appropriate to provide the link on this discussion? If so, why don't you provide the info for all to see on this forum?
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited April 2009
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    +++++++++++++++++++++++1! The discussion was starting to be somewhat positive, sharing, agree to disagree BUT NOW, THE KIDS BABBLING HAS STARTED ALL OVER! WOULD THERE BE SOME THAT'S WISE AND MATURE ENOUGH TO IGNORE THE TROLLING?????????????? IGNORE THE **** AND THE **** WILL FADE AWAY! FEED IT AND IT WILL STICK?? ANY ADULTS HEARING THIS WILL ACT ACCORDINGLY!

    Cheers :)

    Bump.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited April 2009
    This thing has a life of it's own now, just like that other thread that troll Ricardo started.;):D:p
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2009
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    +++++++++++++++++++++++1! The discussion was starting to be somewhat positive, sharing, agree to disagree BUT NOW, THE KIDS BABBLING HAS STARTED ALL OVER! WOULD THERE BE SOME THAT'S WISE AND MATURE ENOUGH TO IGNORE THE TROLLING?????????????? IGNORE THE **** AND THE **** WILL FADE AWAY! FEED IT AND IT WILL STICK?? ANY ADULTS HEARING THIS WILL ACT ACCORDINGLY!

    Cheers :)

    The forum policeman is on the loose again.
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Techno
    I have a fairly nice Yamaha receiver w/Energy C-3's in my patio rig. FWIW, I cannot notice cable changes on that system, so I use standard 14awg speaker wire, and some IC's from monoprice. I suspect its because the limited resolution of the system. Add to that, placement is far from ideal (speakers up high), etc. Another factor is that I listen to this system casually; I don't pick it apart like I do my main system.

    Bottom line, Once you move up to more revealing equipment, you will likely notice changes in cables.
    The Yamaha receiver is to stay no matter what as it is the brand I prefer (personal choice). The smallish Polk speaker were chosen for HT purpose as they are not bulky and once the room is finally completed will also look good.

    Now, music wise, since Polk doesn't seem to provide for commercial/proffessional speakers (which I also want for DG purpose); my dream is to acquire a pair of powered QSC speakers. Last Xmas I tested the 82s (4 of them) with QSC amps (2 of them) for our family gatter but unfortunately the bass was horrible, I had to tweek the lows with my mixer in order to get half decent results. Bottom line, they are great for voice but very weak for music (small 8" drivers). This is unfortunate as they (a pair) would have been a good esthetic match with the polished aluminum casing of the RM series (and also innexpensive/affordable)(I wonder if HE cabling could improve the frequency response??). Right now, I have my eyes on the QSC HPR122i. Since this is using balanced XLR cablings (however, very but very expensive), I wonder if you can provide meat why you would think High End I/Cs and or cabling would be of an advantage to the typical interconnects I presently have and normal proffessional XLR cabling?

    I am very fortunate to audition the QSC HPR122i in my daily work and the bass is so warm and overwhelming :cool: (that would mean bye bye little stand alone subwoofer! No comparision), I'd be curious to hear how HE I/Cs and cabling could improve such speakers? I don't recall the user name but in a different discussion he mentioned an audio/video salon exposition this weekend in Montreal. I intend to try make it and hopefully they'll have some of those HE cables for me to look at as this is picking my curiosity as to why so many on this forum swears by them!

    Cheers :)
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited April 2009
    I suppose 2+2 does equal 4;)
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited April 2009
    You don't have to have professional equipment to hear differences. Just experiment with what's available. I'm an old school Yammie fan, and had many Yamaha pieces in the early 80's. Love their stuff. They were always waay ahead of the other Japanese manufacturers in build quality/attention to detail.

    As to why different cables might show differences; probably due to different topolgies, materials, connectors, etc. Impedance matching can also be a factor as RCA analog inputs are all over the map. XLR is a tighter specified 110ohm topology--much like digital's 75 ohm specification.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited April 2009
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    +++++++++++++++++++++++1! The discussion was starting to be somewhat positive, sharing, agree to disagree BUT NOW, THE KIDS BABBLING HAS STARTED ALL OVER! WOULD THERE BE SOME THAT'S WISE AND MATURE ENOUGH TO IGNORE THE TROLLING?????????????? IGNORE THE **** AND THE **** WILL FADE AWAY! FEED IT AND IT WILL STICK?? ANY ADULTS HEARING THIS WILL ACT ACCORDINGLY!

    Cheers :)

    You might follow your own advice there. By telling everyone to ignore the ****, you are, in fact, acknowledging and contributing to the ****.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited April 2009
    I think this will be my last post here.I NEED TO GET TO BED AS I START MY CAT 5 BREADING CLASSES TOMORROW.Glasses check Knitting needles check x3 spools cat 5 cable check;););)
    Life is a beach let's lay on it:D:D:D
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited April 2009
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    Is it appropriate to provide the link on this discussion? If so, why don't you provide the info for all to see on this forum?

    Well... I would post the link right here, right now... but...


    Did you take a look at the date?:rolleyes:




    Gotcha!:D


    (Ok, kinda lame, I know....)
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited April 2009
    So, who has dibs on One-Triple-Oh?
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You don't have to have professional equipment to hear differences. Just experiment with what's available. I'm an old school Yammie fan, and had many Yamaha pieces in the early 80's. Love their stuff. They were always waay ahead of the other Japanese manufacturers in build quality/attention to detail.

    As to why different cables might show differences; probably due to different topolgies, materials, connectors, etc. Impedance matching can also be a factor as RCA analog inputs are all over the map. XLR is a tighter specified 110ohm topology--much like digital's 75 ohm specification.
    Like I said, I am using my HD DVD players for music therefore HDMI cable to I/C the audio to the yamaha receiver/amp. The professional speakers also have the other function of DJ. We both agree on the XLR properties and balanced advantage. So, from what you are saying, in my particular set-up the high end cabling wouldn't be of any improvement? All I guess I'd have to be concerned is the proper interfacing of the RCA pre-out (unbalanced) to XLR balanced cabling (DIs could take care of this).

    I guess this http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000 is definitely a good idea for the up-coming weekend (as long as it doesn't provide for impulsive spending on my part :rolleyes:) Thanks for your input steveinaz.

    Cheers :)
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Well... I would post the link right here, right now... but...


    Did you take a look at the date?:rolleyes:




    Gotcha!:D


    (Ok, kinda lame, I know....)
    an April FOOL link would be greatly appreciated, afterall some humor is always healthy during emotional debates (as steveinaz points out, we shouldn't take it so seriously) :)

    How many PMs have you received so far???? ;)
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2009
    See link below:

    http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vintagepostcards.org/cathy/april-fools-day-holiday-fantasy-aviation-flying-fish.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vintagepostcards.org/april-fool39s-holiday-aviation-fantasy-flying-fish-p-5601.html&h=475&w=303&sz=21&tbnid=jpAzr2r53W0LqM::&tbnh=129&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dapril%252Bfool%252Bfish%252Bpicture&hl=en&usg=__fRMNlVsmGIgA9geU4Y_C1YsIDjE=&ei=XvvTSaOYGI2eM6DZseoO&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited April 2009
    C3PO sighting.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2009
    makes_no_sense.jpg
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited April 2009
    ND13 wrote: »
    How long do you think it would take one man to make an exact copy of VH's braided Cat5 in lets say a 10 ft pr?

    I know that when I'm working, my time is worth about $35-40/hr. Several of these fellas make a lot more per hour than I'll ever see. Do the math, they ain't that cheap.

    Most here would rather buy some PROVEN, solidly built cables from an established, reputable cable manufacturer than spend their free time away from their family and friends braiding some cables that are questionably "equal too" what they can get used and are aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

    He shoots, he scores!!!

    I'm trying to be serious here too as I have spent a lot on wires to reach the point where I'm happy. However it was money WELL SPENT as I was able to recoup much of it in reselling them on the way up.

    While I understand that this is a hobby and invest hour upon hour tweaking, braiding a 10' speaker cable out of Cat5 would cost me over $2,000, (and IC's who knows how much more) if I charged myself what I charge my customers for consulting.

    I would love to get my hands on some of these Cat5's to test them alongside my MIT's and several other wires I have on hand, but the Cat5's simply cost too darn much to produce.

    (it's teed up guys)
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
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    NAD SS rigs w/mods
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited April 2009
    /////////\\\\\\\\\
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,194
    edited April 2009
    1,001
    Alea jacta est!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited April 2009
    I vote slap:eek::p
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,194
    edited April 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    I vote slap:eek::p
    Nah ... they might actually like that!

    This one sure got pushed over the bump with a lot less excitement than Ricardo's epic Emotiva Story.
    Alea jacta est!
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited April 2009
    Congrats on snagging the 1000th post Ben
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,194
    edited April 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    Congrats on snagging the 1000th post Ben
    He cheated, IMO, since he didn't actually say anything interesting. I think he should have told a joke or something, just to cheer us all up a little bit.

    P.S. Just noticed that Ben posted within 60 seconds of post 999, since the time is the same on both posts! He must have been waiting, with his answer ready and his little piggy hovering with feverish excitement over the Enter button!
    Alea jacta est!
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