Spearker cables..fact or fiction?
Comments
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Lets go I am ready:D
Have to get hold of my friend today (electronic engineer) who's scope we used.
Oh....OK. Get back when you can.I think it was both we measured
You must realize that some signal distortions will not be easily apparent in time domain analysis, which is why frequency domain analysis is so important...particularly if the noise tends toward whiteness (equal amounts of energy at each frequency).Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
One question have you tried any type of solid core wiring yet??
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If you would read, you would know. Damn, why do you have to be such an ****?OK so we can move the noise equation out right now.
Yes I believe you now the crunch question...what are you comparing this too..what did you have before??
Do you know who you are going up against and how many posts he has lost in the depths of this forum with PROOF that you are full of ****?
Keep it up, you'll find out about it and with it you will lose any and all credibility. As if you and others on this thread had any to begin with. :rolleyes: For your own sake, just STFU. Your mother would approve.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
For what it's worth we did RTA sweeps with pink and white noise too
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Yawn whatever I am here to learn as well. Life is about give and take not constant insults and threats.If he proves me wrong I will learn from it and be the first to admit it ..big whoopeeIf you would read, you would know. Damn, why do you have to be such an ****?
Do you know who you are going up against and how many posts he has with PROOF that you are full of ****?
Keep it up, you'll find out and with it any and all credibility. As if you and others on this thread had any to begin with. :rolleyes: For your own sake, just STFU. Your mother would approve. -
OK so we can move the noise equation out right now.
Yes I believe you now the crunch question...what are you comparing this too..what did you have before??
I certainly don't mind answering your question, but I believe I asked you first. Furthermore, I provided a link to one of my prior speaker cable reviews that should have provided some insight into what I had before.
Can we address this before we go on to something else?:DarqueKnight wrote: »I would be interested in reading the results of some of your comparative studies listing the specific cables evaluated.
I prefer to discuss things in a linear fashion. Darting about from topic to topic confuses me.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Empirical evidence. Intelligent enough? Now you can go Google it and come back with your lame **** response.TECHNOKID wrote:.....NEVER any of those bashers have brought anything intelligent to this discussion!~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Many should learn from this post! Civilized and straigth to the point! Now, reporting someone that has a different opinion than yours... I'd more likely see reporting people who trolls by posting insults and poor comments (which I did earlier in the thread and didn't lead anywhere!).Guys ... you are talking about speaker wire right? My god.
If you wanna use cat 5 for speaker wire, go right ahead. If you feel cheaper wire is better then higher end wire, then use it. If you don't agree with what others say, try it out for yourself and form your own opinion. What's so damn hard about it?
If you feel this guy is making a stink of the forum, report him. Don't add fuel to the fire.
So I'll just say this, wire makes a difference. It has to have the correct guage and length to carry the proper signal from the amp to the speaker without losing or picking anything up on the way. I don't care who makes the wire, I don't care what it looks like, I don't care what it is made out of, I don't care what one person says or another, all I care about is hearing what was send out. That's all . Once you can do this, there is nothing you can do to that wire to make it any better.
There is some truth to this forum on both sides but both sides are going further then it need to be.
While all you guys are in here arguing who has the best wire for the job, I'll be listening to my Kimber Kables and enjoying my system.
Good luck with the rest of this.
DanDARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
I apologize DarqueKnight, back to the topic at hand.......~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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One question have you tried any type of solid core wiring yet??
Wow. You really aren't going to answer any of my questions are you?
To answer your question, yes I have.
If you insist on consistently changing the subject, I must assume that you do not wish to engage in technical discourse and that your purpose here is just to argue...I which case, I will have no further interest in communicating with you.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
No prob on my way to work (8am here) but will chat latter.Would you like a list of cables I have reviewed by ear or tested scientifically or bothDarqueKnight wrote: »I certainly don't mind answering your question, but I believe I asked you first. Furthermore, I provided a link to one of my prior speaker cable reviews that should have provided some insight into what I had before.
Can we address this before we go on to something else?:
I prefer to discuss things in a linear fashion. Darting about from topic to topic confuses me.
Gee seems like I have my work cut out:eek:
Where can I see your reviews? and I still dont have an answer whether you have tested any solid core cable combos yet?? -
Hello not so fast...so what is it you are asking there seems to be lag see my last postDarqueKnight wrote: »Wow. You really aren't going to answer any of my questions are you?
To answer your question, yes I have.
If you insist on consistently changing the subject, I must assume that you do not wish to engage in technical discourse and that your purpose here is just to argue...I which case, I will have no further interest in communicating with you. -
Ok so where are you? no reply.In the meantime I read your review which oddly features cables made up of SOLID CORE MULTI STRAND = 9 gauge.Read my post above..further this review views your opinion and no scientific results.Just like I have my opinion..any scientific results pages you can refer me too??I am really interested:D
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No prob on my way to work (8am here) but will chat latter.
Enjoy your work day.Would you like a list of cables I have reviewed by ear or tested scientifically or both
Both.I still dont have an answer whether you have tested any solid core cable combos yet??
Why are you on so much about solid core cable just now? First, Cat45 was the greatist thing in the world and now solid core is the cat's meow. I told you in post #725, that, yes, I had tried solid core cable. My current interconnects and speaker cables are solid core designs.Where can I see your reviews?
If you go back to post #701, you will see that I conveniently provided a link to one of my speaker cable reviews, some of which were your newly beloved solid core.
Here are some links to a few of my other studies:
Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 1
Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 2
Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 4- PS Audio Premier SC Power CordProud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Ok so where are you? no reply.In the meantime I read your review which oddly features cables made up of SOLID CORE MULTI STRAND = 9 gauge.Read my post above..further this review views your opinion and no scientific results.Just like I have my opinion..any scientific results pages you can refer me too??I am really interested:D
Sorry, didn't realize you were sitting in front of the computer waiting on me to respond. You said you were going to work so I took you at your word.
I trust the links provided at the bottom of my last post meet your approval?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I read your review and thank you for a good contribution (I hope this thread had taken this turn right from start!). I disagree with your statement that such tool doesn't exist. While not available to the common audiophile nor most have the knowledge to use it. I have worked with spectrum analyser which allowed me to take accurate measurements of cable simulators.DarqueKnight wrote: »No need to be confrontational. There are some of us here who have spent some time quantitatively evaluating cable performance and who have tried to correlate quantitative performance with subjective listening perceptions.
Here is a link to one of my speaker cable evaluations:Review Of Audioquest Volcano Speaker Cable. If you scroll down to the conclusion section of that review, you will see I did a comparison of the AQ Volcanoes to three other cables and attached a summary in a PDF file.
I would be interested in reading the results of some of your comparative studies listing the specific cables evaluated.
With your oscilloscope measurements, did you evaluate the cable's performance in both the time and frequency domains, or just the time domain?
While we all know cables have LCR effects, I personally thing our focus shouldn't be to try to resolve the problem within the cable it self but ratter externally by mean of components that are specifically tasked for such (IE: EQ). Afterall, have you ever heard of musicians or other proffessionals buying such cables IE: MYTHS) :rolleyes: If one wants to play with the individual frequencies, that is the way proffessionals do. As pointed out so many times, the goal is to reproduce exactly what was done in the studio!DARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
Simple question, to all of you that think he or thread is so full of ****, why don't you move along? Doing so would surely get the thread to die. Simple, when people always intervene with their but... simply means some different!nooshinjohn wrote: »I guess you have never had a run of bad luck in your life, except whe the doctor dropped you on your head when u were born. you arent selling anyone here that your theory has any value whatsoever so move on already. I think those that have invested big money in cables have spent their money wisely because to them it is a tremendous improvement in sound. to me, I would rather spend money in other areas, so choose not to go big bucks on cables. I paid 150 bucks for my main speaker wires and about 20 bucks a pair for my rca cables... they sound fine to me, but that is why people have choices. Stop trying to be the cable guru, because to most you are just full of ****, and to those of us that dont want to spend a bunch on cables you are also full of ****...DARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
+1 (If that discussion had started and kept going in such matter... it would be put to rest by now!)Yawn whatever I am here to learn as well. Life is about give and take not constant insults and threats.If he proves me wrong I will learn from it and be the first to admit it ..big whoopee
To conclude, this discussion is starting to have some intelligent views which will make it just that much more interesting (learning) and contributing as the name callers are vanishing to leave place to an interesting exchange of views. DarqueKnight, thank you for stepping in along with seafire and hopefully the name callers (trollers) will abstain of any more dirt contribution( DARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
C3PO sighting.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Looks like someone recognised themselves but couldn't resist showing how much brain they haveC3PO sighting. DARE TO SOAR:
Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life -
Of course nothing can come out of this thread as long as the so called beleivers keep the poor attitude they had all along. As long as your new thread stays within the beleivers guidelines, you'll get good results but don't expect the pros and cons. You have to realize people sell that stuff here and can not afford an un-biased thread wich would jeopardize their own turf. This discussion could have been fruitfull, if you look back seriously at the thread, you will find who where actually highjacking/trolling this thread!
NOTE: The name calling started with the beleivers and never stopped since! NEVER any of those bashers have brought anything intelligent to this discussion! What are they so afraid of?
C3P0 sighting. -
Hi Darqueknight
I phoned my friend(electronic engineer)who owns the scope.These tests were run in 2006 so we are both a bit vague....1mm zip core showed the most difference that was visible in sine wave as well fft.If my friends memory serves him correct there were differences of up to 8db.The cables we used to compare were Nordost flatline gold.The difference between flatline gold and cat 45 3 meter cable x8 twisted pairs (x6 pairs terminated all negs together all pos together on low end driver(up to 220hz)x2 pairs terminated as above to hi end 220hz and up bi amped) max fft db difference 1.6 db no change in sine wave.My friend also reminded me that the flat golds were solid core pairs.I owned these for about two years but sold them on.
currently in my possesion are various cat 45 formats. Oelbach twinmix 2 x 4 mm.Various interconnects made up myself off spools of Oelbach NF113-NF1-NF14.Also some older multi strand esoteric I bought in the late 90's.I had to make a second call to my friend at the audio shop to find out what we had listened to in the last years
Nordost Valhalla used in the hi end listening room
Nordost spm and flatline
Audioquest type 4
Kimber select ks 3035 (not sure if this series is correct)
kimber 8tc
Oelebach refeferenz 4.0 mm
Oelebach silver & rattlesnake
Crystal reference which is also used in the hi end rooms .
I have to commend you on your highly scientific approach to the subject at hand!I asked for it and got it:eek:
You seem to be a highly respected member of this forum so I would have trust in your objective opinions so I have a proposal
If I gave you two of my Cat 5 cable recipes would you be prepared to do the valuation for us pitching it against some top end and mid level product?
Looking forward to your reply:) -
To add to the above post.We all heard differences in cable but as we moved up the ladder these differences became minute.This is when the blindfold test was recommended and honestly we all failed dismally in the end not being able to call the sound signatures to the respected cables anymore and I now had a certain sonic picture in my brain to chase..after a couple different tries I came up with a cable or two that even fooled some serious die hard audiophiles in the blindfold tests.I would love for us to try that here for everybody's advantage.This would be done after your scientific evaluation:D
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Yep! http://www.skysound.com/Afterall, have you ever heard of musicians or other proffessionals buying such cables IE: MYTHS) :rolleyes:"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Afterall, have you ever heard of musicians or other proffessionals buying such cables IE: MYTHS) :rolleyes:
Yep, DarqueKnight and Reeltrouble just to name a couple. -
No tech kidPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Fellas, please let this **** die. It's obvious that they don't want to learn anything. Let them move along in their sonic bliss as they appear very happy with their stance on this topic. To them, the world is flat, period.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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This post is an example and maybe an answer to GG's post about why many older members don't visit here anymore.
I just don't get why people need to be disrespectful to other members. Because people don't agree doesn't mean they can ridicule, call them names or make fun of them.
Sad. -
This post is an example and maybe an answer to GG's post about why many older members don't visit here anymore.
I just don't get why people need to be disrespectful to other members. Because people don't agree doesn't mean they can ridicule, call them names or make fun of them.
Sad.
This plagues MANY other forums on practically any topic or hobby you can name.
Well respected members with years of experience and domain expertise get shouted down by anyone with an internet connection and a forum account.
And the senior members with knowledge to share get tired of being 'deconstructed' to be on the same level as newbies or those who think they are supposed experts but have nothing more than a big bookmark of links to sites which they may or may not have actually read or have actual experience.
It happens all the time....and it is a shame....everyone is a frakin' expert...yeah right...
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »This plagues MANY other forums on practically any topic or hobby you can name.
Well respected members with years of experience and domain expertise get shouted down by anyone with an internet connection and a forum account.
And the senior members with knowledge to share get tired of being 'deconstructed' to be on the same level as newbies or those who think they are supposed experts but have nothing more than a big bookmark of links to sites which they may or may not have actually read or have actual experience.
It happens all the time....and it is a shame....everyone is a frakin' expert...yeah right...
Many forums do not tolerate name calling.
I wonder if name calling gives them a hard on.
I just don't get it, but it's there.
This discussion has been closed.