SDA Compendium 2nd Edition Is Finished

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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited March 2007
    I am thrilled that POLK tech support referred me to this Forum when I called them to ask if there were any upgrades available for my 1987 SDA SRS's.

    Well, I now see that I am not the only SDA fanatic who is still alive and kicking and feel among kindred spirits here in the Forum. I will now spend a few hours catching up on the SDA threads and, if I feel that I have anything to offer, that hasn't been posted already, I will certainly chime in.

    I ordered my SDA Compendium this morning and have already started setting up my work bench in anticipation of its arrival. I will post to this forum when the upgrade is completed.

    Long live SDA
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited March 2007
    rgiles07 wrote:
    I am thrilled that POLK tech support referred me to this Forum when I called them to ask if there were any upgrades available for my 1987 SDA SRS's.

    Well, I now see that I am not the only SDA fanatic who is still alive and kicking and feel among kindred spirits here in the Forum. I will now spend a few hours catching up on the SDA threads and, if I feel that I have anything to offer, that hasn't been posted already, I will certainly chime in.

    I ordered my SDA Compendium this morning and have already started setting up my work bench in anticipation of its arrival. I will post to this forum when the upgrade is completed.

    Long live SDA

    You came to the right looney bin Brother. . .welcome again.
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote:
    Welcome to the forum. I sent you a PM with ordering info. You can also find a lot of upgrade and modification information by doing a search on the forum (e.g. "SDA modification", "Improvements to the SDA SRS", etc.).

    I received the Compendium and have begun the components ordering process. I will have the tweeters replaced by tomorrow and am now making a list of the values of resistors and capacitors that I will need to order.

    In reviewing the crossover components list I am a little confused about exactly what I need. On page 53 of the Compendium is a photo of an SDA SRS crossover. I have compared your example to the ones in my SDA's and it looks exactly like mine, however, I am unable to identify the two yellow colored components. Are these yellow components capacitors? What is the value of each?

    Also, in the SDA SRS crossover schematic in Appendix 3, page 23 I count a total of 9 capacitors. Your actual photo, on Compendium page 52, of the components needed shows only 7 capacitors. Did I misinterpret the schematic? What is that tied to the positive terminal of T3?

    Please clarify these issues for me so that I may get these components ordered and installed asap. The suspense is killing me. I haven't been this excited about a project in a long, long time.

    Thanks for taking the time to author the Compendium; and for being the right man at the right place at the right time to actually get it accomplished.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2007
    rgiles07 wrote:
    In reviewing the crossover components list I am a little confused about exactly what I need. On page 53 of the Compendium is a photo of an SDA SRS crossover. I have compared your example to the ones in my SDA's and it looks exactly like mine, however, I am unable to identify the two yellow colored components. Are these yellow components capacitors? What is the value of each?

    The yellow components are mylar film capacitors, the larger one is 12 uF and the smaller one is 4.4 uF. Each of the mylar capacitors is in parallel with a 750 pf silver mica capacitor.
    rgiles07 wrote:
    Also, in the SDA SRS crossover schematic in Appendix 3, page 23 I count a total of 9 capacitors. Your actual photo, on Compendium page 52, of the components needed shows only 7 capacitors. Did I misinterpret the schematic?

    There are nine capacitors, two of which are 750 pF silver mica bypass capacitors. The bypass capacitors are there to improve the transient response of the mylar capacitors. The silver mica capacitors look like little brown or dark purple "beads". A picture of the silver mica capacitors is attached. I initially left the silver micas in place because Polk's engineering department advised that they were of very high quality and that no audible improvement would be attained by replacing them with polypropylene film capacitors. I (and others) subsequently removed them because they are really not needed with high quality polypropylene film capacitors. Also, on some listening material they can introduce some small, but audible, delay characteristics (artifacts). See posts #36, #37 and #41 of this thread: SDA SRS 4.1TL Upgrade

    With my source material, I never noticed any audible difference with the silver micas in or out of the circuit with the polypropylene capacitors. As an alternative to removing them, you could also short them out of the circuit by soldering a wire between their terminals on the underside of the board.
    rgiles07 wrote:
    What is that tied to the positive terminal of T3?

    Tweeter #3 has a 22.5 ohm resistor in parallel with a 4.4 uf mylar capacitor and a 750 pf silver mica bypass capacitor.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    The yellow components are mylar film capacitors, the larger one is 12 uF and the smaller one is 4.4 uF. Each of the mylar capacitors is in parallel with a 750 pf silver mica capacitor.



    There are nine capacitors, two of which are 750 pF silver mica bypass capacitors. The bypass capacitors are there to improve the transient response of the mylar capacitors. The silver mica capacitors look like little brown or dark purple "beads". A picture of the silver mica capacitors is attached. I initially left the silver micas in place because Polk's engineering department advised that they were of very high quality and that no audible improvement would be attained by replacing them with polypropylene film capacitors. I (and others) subsequently removed them because they are really not needed with high quality polypropylene film capacitors. Also, on some listening material they can introduce some small, but audible, delay characteristics (artifacts). See posts #36, #37 and #41 of this thread: SDA SRS 4.1TL Upgrade

    With my source material, I never noticed any audible difference with the silver micas in or out of the circuit with the polypropylene capacitors. As an alternative to removing them, you could also short them out of the circuit by soldering a wire between their terminals on the underside of the board.



    Tweeter #3 has a 22.5 ohm resistor in parallel with a 4.4 uf mylar capacitor and a 750 pf silver mica bypass capacitor.

    Partsconnexion does not have the 4.4 uF and 92uF Solen capacitors. Would the 4.3 uF and 91uF Solen caps, which they do have, suffice? Nor do they have the 22.5 Ohm Mills MRA-12 resistor. Would the 22 Ohm Mills MRA-12 suffice?

    I know that this may seem like a silly question, considering the tolerances of these components, but I want this crossover upgrade project to have every chance of success. I just want to confirm this with you before I order the components.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2007
    rgiles07 wrote: »
    Partsconnexion does not have the 4.4 uF and 92uF Solen capacitors. Would the 4.3 uF and 91uF Solen caps, which they do have, suffice? Nor do they have the 22.5 Ohm Mills MRA-12 resistor. Would the 22 Ohm Mills MRA-12 suffice?

    As you noted, the available values for the upgrade capacitors and resistor are well within the 10% tolerances of the original parts. The 4.3 uF and 91 uF Solen caps and the 22 ohm Mills MRA-12 are what I used.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Sumbrada77
    Sumbrada77 Posts: 37
    edited April 2007
    Hello, I am interested in getting the SDA 2nd edition book. I have Monitor
    10s now that I am upgrading and am looking for SDA sets. I do not have
    enough posts yet to send a direct message. Any help? Thanks!
    CARPE CEREVISI!!
    A Wise man, Keeps his Friends close, but keeps his
    Enemies Closer !!

    Yamaha RX-V659 A/V receiver, Maganox CDP482 CD,
    Pansonic DVD F85, Marantz 6300 TT w/Apature KOCE
    Polk 10s (mains), M&K 3B (backs), Polk 5b Center
    HSU Research VTF-2 Mk1 subwoofer
    DIY twisted speaker cable
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  • Eric21590
    Eric21590 Posts: 2
    edited April 2007
    Hey DarqueKnight, and the rest of you. I'm new here but my SDA2B's are 17 and I finally repowered them. Wow. I want to do the RDO198-1 tweets and the mods to the xovers etc and need info. The SDA Compendium 2E sounds like a good place to start. Could you send me the ordering info? Thanks for any help on this. This is a great site.
    Eric
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited April 2007
    Eric21590 wrote: »
    Hey DarqueKnight, and the rest of you. I'm new here but my SDA2B's are 17 and I finally repowered them. Wow. I want to do the RDO198-1 tweets and the mods to the xovers etc and need info. The SDA Compendium 2E sounds like a good place to start. Could you send me the ordering info? Thanks for any help on this. This is a great site.
    Eric

    Welcome to the club Eric!
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    As you noted, the available values for the upgrade capacitors and resistor are well within the 10% tolerances of the original parts. The 4.3 uF and 91 uF Solen caps and the 22 ohm Mills MRA-12 are what I used.

    I finally received my crossover upgrade components from Parts Connexion today. The first thing I noticed when I opened the box was the enormous size of those Solen 130 uF caps. They're as large as coke cans! The next thing I noticed was the relative short length of the leads protruding from the ends; definitely too short for this crossover upgrade project.

    Were your Solen leads too short?

    What kind of wire should I use to extend the lead lengths so I can stack those babys up like you did?

    I have already upgraded the tweeters and, just as every other upgrader on this Forum, noticed an immediate improvement in high end sound quality.

    I have ordered 20 feet of Silver Serpent speaker cable to build my new SDA interconnect. I have heard so many people rave about the improvement in sound obtained from using this cable that I decided to give it a try. I am also going to build one interconnect using Monster cable, just so I can see for myself which is the better wire.

    As soon as I get your advise on the short cap lead issue, I will get started on my crossover upgrade. The anticipation of the aural end result is killing me.
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  • NeilGabriel
    NeilGabriel Posts: 1,487
    edited April 2007
    Does the Compendium cover only SDA speakers, or does it include the 80's Monitor series? Inquiring minds need to know? And is there a foldout?
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Welcome to the Forum!!!

    Did you get your SDA SRS's in 1987?

    I just bought a pair of 1.2TL's but I bought my 1st pair of SDA's also in 1987 :)

    Las

    I bought my SDA SRS's new in 1987 at the Army/Air Force Exchange in Vogelweh, Germany. The pair cost $2000.

    I have owned them for 20 years and have never been able to fully enjoy them for lack of a sufficient listening room. In fact, they have been stored in my garage in their original boxes for the last two years. I unpacked them about four weeks ago to see if they would still play. Well, they still play, as well as they ever did, and now they are set up in a room where I can truly appreciate them. The holographic imaging is amazing and I can't stop listening to them.

    I have upgraded the tweeters and am thrilled at the improvement in high end listening pleasure. I will be upgrading the crossovers tomorrow as per the instructions in DarqueKnights' SDA Compendium. I am like a kid in anticipation of Christmas toys.

    These speakers are the best investment I ever made and, with the installation of the upgrades referenced on this Forum, they sound even better than when they were new.
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    NeilGabriel wrote: »
    Does the Compendium cover only SDA speakers, or does it include the 80's Monitor series? Inquiring minds need to know? And is there a foldout?

    The Compendium is written for the SDA series only.

    There are no foldouts, but none are needed.
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  • rgiles07
    rgiles07 Posts: 9
    edited April 2007
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Welcome to the Forum!!!

    Did you get your SDA SRS's in 1987?

    I just bought a pair of 1.2TL's but I bought my 1st pair of SDA's also in 1987 :)

    Las

    I bought my SDA SRS's new in 1987 at the Army/Air Force Exchange in Vogelweh, Germany. The pair cost $2000.

    I have owned them for 20 years and have never been able to fully enjoy them for lack of a sufficient listening room. In fact, they have been stored in my garage in their original boxes for the last two years. I unpacked them about four weeks ago to see if they would still play. Well, they still play, as well as they ever did, and now they are set up in a room where I can truly appreciate them. The holographic imaging is amazing and I can't stop listening to them.

    I have upgraded the tweeters and am thrilled at the improvement in high end listening pleasure. I will be upgrading the crossovers tomorrow as per the instructions in DarqueKnights' SDA Compendium. I am like a kid in anticipation of Christmas toys.

    These speakers are the best investment I ever made and, with the installation of the upgrades referenced on this Forum, they sound even better than when they were new.
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited April 2007
    DarqueKnight...I don't know if I ever mentioned it but I LOVE the Compendium! What a great reference even if my SDA-1C's are a transition of speakers between a 1B and a 1C! Call it a learning experience. lol...

    Bravo again....
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2007
    rgiles07 wrote: »
    Were your Solen leads too short?

    Absolutely.
    rgiles07 wrote: »
    What kind of wire should I use to extend the lead lengths so I can stack those babys up like you did?

    I used some solid copper hookup wire that I had lying around. You can get it from Radio Shack or any electronic parts house. Other types of hookup wire will work just fine, as long as the wire is not too big to fit in the circuit board holes.
    rgiles07 wrote: »
    I have ordered 20 feet of Silver Serpent speaker cable to build my new SDA interconnect. I have heard so many people rave about the improvement in sound obtained from using this cable that I decided to give it a try. I am also going to build one interconnect using Monster cable, just so I can see for myself which is the better wire.

    I look forward to reading about your results.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited April 2007
    Lasareath wrote: »
    rgiles07,

    I'm so jealous that you are doing the crossover upgrades, I want to do mine so bad!!!!

    I am getting together with Hearingimpared and one other Polk fan and the 3 of us are going to do ours together at HearingImpared's house most likely mid May. So I can't wait to get it done.

    This weekend I am bluiding new side panels out of MDF and oak and I am going to have them Black Lacquered.

    I got my 8 new RDO0198's two days ago but I dont want to install anything untill the sides are done.

    In order to make sure that I do not get any unwanted resonance I am going to bolt the side panels to the the 1.2's speaker box in exactly the same manner as which the top and bottom plates are bolted.

    Please post pics of your new IC cable, I want to make a new one as well.

    Las

    Come on ya big wuss install the RD0198s and give them some break in time!!! One suggestion though, get some speaker gasket from Parts Express here and surround each tweeter with it. I didn't do that with mine when I installed them and am planning on doing so this weekend. I hate taking those screws out again but the toothpick fix works really well if any of the holes strip out.

    I just got off the phone will Billy (LibertyC) and we are looking at doing the xovers around the end of May or beginning of June.
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  • dbnh
    dbnh Posts: 194
    edited April 2007
    NeilGabriel wrote: »
    Does the Compendium cover only SDA speakers, or does it include the 80's Monitor series? Inquiring minds need to know? And is there a foldout?
    Sounds like the foldout question should be forwarded to the audio **** part of the forum...;)
    My system

    A-Gon Feedback; Head-Fi Feedback; ebay Feedback
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  • Gary Batson
    Gary Batson Posts: 124
    edited May 2007
    I haave to have one of these books. I've had my SDA 1's since March '83. One of the first's. And want to know everything about them all!!! Some way, Some how, I WILL have a pair of 1.2 tl"s soon. If It kills me. I just started looking. It's my dream that someone somewhere will want to sell a pair of big old speakers for a little money just to get rid of them... I can dream can't I.

    Anyway... This is just my 14th post. And I don't know how the message system works. I know I can't contact you yet. What do I do???:) :):)
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited May 2007
    I cannot send you a private message because you have not enabled private messaging.

    Go to the user control panel ("User CP" link above).
    Go to "Edit Options".
    Go to "Private Messaging" in the "Messaging & Notification" section.
    Select the "Enable private messaging" option.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Gary Batson
    Gary Batson Posts: 124
    edited May 2007
    It should work now!!! :)
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited May 2007
    Still not working. Did you scroll all the way to the bottom and click the "save changes" button when you edited your profile?

    If you do a left click on my user name to the left of this post, you will see that "Send a private message to DarqueKnight" is one of the options. When you do a left click on your user name, the private messaging option is not listed.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Gary Batson
    Gary Batson Posts: 124
    edited May 2007
    Yea...There was a box to allow private messages and I checked that one. There was another box to allow messages from other people. Don't know what the difference is. But it's done now. :)

    MY TEACHERS CALLED ME SPECIAL!!! :rolleyes:
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2007
    Gary Batson wrote: »
    Yea...There was a box to allow private messages and I checked that one. There was another box to allow messages from other people. Don't know what the difference is. But it's done now. :)

    MY TEACHERS CALLED ME SPECIAL!!! :rolleyes:

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Welcome to the Club!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,511
    edited May 2007
    I hate taking those screws out again but the toothpick fix works really well if any of the holes strip out.


    A wood dowel rod fix works great too. Drill a hole for the dowel rod, cut a short piece of rod, glue it in, and drill a pilot hole for the screw when it sets up.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2007
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    A wood dowel rod fix works great too. Drill a hole for the dowel rod, cut a short piece of rod, glue it in, and drill a pilot hole for the screw when it sets up.


    This is the best fix! The sell dowel pins at Home Depot, etc. that have "fins" lengthwise along the pin. The glue sits in there real nice and if you drill the hole size correctly, the pin needs to be tapped in with a hammer. The compressed "fins" with the glue really holds nice. I was able to drill a pilot hole and insert a screw without the glue being set.
    Carl

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  • Eric21590
    Eric21590 Posts: 2
    edited May 2007
    Hey DarqueKnight, been really busy but I got the book to end all books and thank you so much! It's GREAT. Thanks to all of you here I am now the proud owner of a new pair of SDA 2B TL's. I used all Sonicaps and Mills resistors and the x-over mod went smoothly. The RDO198's take some getting used to and the 100 hrs is comming soon. Just have to stop changing other stuff. Did the Cardas Rhodium posts and spades on + - and IC. New IC cable too. Now have to work on room positioning ... OK honey? Anyway THANKS AGAIN! and I'll try to post some pics.
    Eric
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2007
    schwarcw wrote: »
    This is the best fix! The sell dowel pins at Home Depot, etc. that have "fins" lengthwise along the pin. The glue sits in there real nice and if you drill the hole size correctly, the pin needs to be tapped in with a hammer. The compressed "fins" with the glue really holds nice. I was able to drill a pilot hole and insert a screw without the glue being set.

    Funny that you and Rich are writing about this tonight in that I had to mess with the PR again and again do the toothpick thing. My wife was watching HGTV (I'll never admit to watching it, never!!!) and one of the carpenters was saying to add wood glue to the toothpicks set them in place, let the glue dry and the whole is like new.

    I gotta try that because THAT **** F@#%K#@G rattle is back.

    This time it is down low on the right side of the cabinet. When I press the oak wood strip that runs from top to botton on the side the rattle stops. It also stops when I press on the screw at 2:00 on the PR.

    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I'm not taking that PR out again. I'm gonna try to put up with it until I take the crossovers out, hopefully in the next two weeks. Then I'll see what the heck is going on in there.
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  • Gary Batson
    Gary Batson Posts: 124
    edited May 2007
    OK.. I thought something might still be wrong so I looked and the box I checked didn't stay checked.

    By the time this is over I'll have my 20 posts.:rolleyes:
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  • Gary Batson
    Gary Batson Posts: 124
    edited June 2007
    Got mine Saturday!!! I spent the day reading thru it. Anyone with SDA's should have one. Lots of usefull information. It's already come in handy.
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