How do the new L800 SDA compare to the Original Legend SDA-SRS 1.2TL?

verb

Ha! Possibly, or travel down the path vicariously!

stones89

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

Seems logical!!!

K_M

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

nooshinjohn

K_M wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

If you ask the guys around here what they think of your opinion, most would say “KM who?”

tonyb

K_M wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

Depends on who you ask. If you ask people who design speakers to make a profit from, then of course your not going to use top flight crossover parts.

Ask the designers to make a speaker based on performance with no worries about profit margins, you'll find top flight crossover parts.

It's not that crossover parts don't matter, because they do, it's most are beholden to a bottom line and price point to achieve first and foremost.

You can find the same things in cars. A benz has some cheap parts in it too. You'll never see those however visually, and it's the same with crossovers.

mhardy6647

Benzes and Beemers are chockablock with cheap parts -- which is pretty obvious five or six years on
Both of 'em have had a predilection, at least in the not-too-distant past, for puttin' plastic parts in the darndest places.

That's why some folks say:

The most expensive car you'll ever own is a cheap used Mercedes

dromunds

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Benzes and Beemers are chockablock with cheap parts -- which is pretty obvious five or six years on
Both of 'em have had a predilection, at least in the not-too-distant past, for puttin' plastic parts in the darndest places.

That's why some folks say:

The most expensive car you'll ever own is a cheap used Mercedes

Lol. I used to hear the most expensive car you'll ever own is a cheap used Saab

K_M

nooshinjohn wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

If you ask the guys around here what they think of your opinion, most would say “KM who?”

Well yeah, but many guys here, get off on having no one dare to question things, they believe, and have no ability to to see other views.

Not including you, obviously.....

F1nut

Broken record

mhardy6647

F1nut wrote: »

Broken record

or



oh.
wait.
I know.

mhardy6647

exactly.
exactly.
exactly.

Nightfall

DSkip wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Broken record

or



oh.
wait.
I know.

What what what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3PUu88nOcw

DarqueKnight

K_M wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

I thought it was clearly understood by most people that most manufacturers, of anything, do not officially support boutique, aftermarket modifications of their products. To do so could potentially open a gigantic can of worms with regard to product liability and warranty issues.

Polk Audio never officially stated any recommendations for performance improvements of their speakers. However, unofficially, co-founder Matthew Polk, former engineering VP Stu Lumsden, and an engineer I spoke to many years ago, Chris, all made recommendations on where improvements could be made with regard to improved crossover components.

For most people, what the manufacturer, of anything, provides is more than adequate. For the performance enthusiast, of anything, aftermarket/boutique parts can provide a more enjoyable ownership experience.

SIHAB

HOWEVER,

Allen Shaw is not a fan of the upgraded crossover route and didn't
think it did anything to the voicing of his speakers. (paraphrasing)
His comment was about his anniversary editions.

I'm not saying that modifications aren't useful if you know what
you are doing. I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the
Mod is better rule.

WLDock

IMO, it obviously makes sense to wait until after the warranty period is over before modding a speaker. By then one might be bored and looking for something more.

For those that don't wait and jump in right away, and like to do things with their hands...maybe go a different route and build a set of speakers.

If one wants to go all out, there are some crazy kits out there. Can start right out of the gate with some premium drivers and crossovers that one might see in speakers costing much much more from a major manufacture or boutique brand. Also, can use MDF, Medite, Rusian/Baltic Birch, hardwood, etc. for the enclosure, then cover in the veneer, paint, leather, suede, etc. finish of choice.

One of many.... SB Acoustics, PBN Audio, and Madisound have a new kit out that seems like a crazy good project for the brave builders out there. $3609 for drivers and crossover!

It uses the top Satori drivers, Beryllium domes, ClarityCap CSA, Mundorf Mresist MOX resistors, and custom wound inductors.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/3-way-speaker-kits/satori-sba-951-speaker-kit-by-peter-noerbaek-pair/

https://pbnaudio.com/sba-951/

tonyb

Man, those crossovers are huge.....me likey.

tonyb

Dropping a 4 cylinder engine in a Camaro is "adequate" too, gets you around town, back and forth no problem. Who the heck wants that though. No doubt some will, but most won't.

People have to remember that a speaker company is a business, guided by profits. It's not there to swap dollars so you can afford them. The challenge is always going to be, how to put out a product, year after year, that offers improvements, in a market where your customer base has disposable income that keeps shrinking.....and the cost of doing business keeps rising.

Not as easy as one may think, to build mass produced speakers in such an environment, let alone ones that sound good to boot, and keep them reasonably affordable.

I personally think Polk has excelled in that endeavor. It's easy to see why higher end crossovers are not offered, not because they don't matter, but to keep costs and profits in line so they stay in business.

VR3

The problem with diy is the resale value is virtually zero

tonyb

VR3 wrote: »

The problem with diy is the resale value is virtually zero

Yes and no Trey. Your customer base is more shallow for sure.

For instance, if you or someone like Jay or other DIY guys around here were to build a speaker, I'd buy them. Only because I know the quality of these peoples work. Others would not.

Plus DIY doesn't come with a warranty like mass produced speakers. That adds value no matter what the product is. That could explain also, why speakers take a nose dive in value after the warranty period is over.

VR3

There are exceptions for sure but in general if the average Joe builds a speaker in his basement, the resale is nill.

Even some of the small companies making speakers, not to name any, their resale value is abysmal

tonyb

True that...

btw, I didn't realize PBN had so many speaker kits.

https://pbnaudio.com/self-assemble-speaker-kits/

JayCee

tonyb wrote: »

...if you or someone like Jay or other DIY guys around here were to build a speaker, I'd buy them.

Hmmm, Trey, looks to me like Tony's contracted for your first @VR3 speakers. I'd call this post legally binding under CP rules.

nooshinjohn

VR3 wrote: »

The problem with diy is the resale value is virtually zero

If the DIY project looks like a DIY project typically does, resale value can be very low. I suspect a project like my tube amps would not have that problem.

VR3

Yeah but Bob Carver has endorsed your build, there's a difference and exceptions

WLDock

VR3 wrote: »

The problem with diy is the resale value is virtually zero

I seriously doubt few get their money back if they buy a new set of speakers at or close to MSRP. Then, dump a ton of money and time into modding the crossovers. I'm sure very few break even on that deal. I think it would come down to how well a person is connected to a particular community that might be interested in a modified speaker and willing to pay for it.

The same would apply to a DIY set. When you look at some of the builds over at www.htguide.com like the Wavecor Ardent builds. There are some guys doing incredible work that probably won't get the their money back given the time and money spent on some of these project. OTOH, there are some that will pay the asking price for some of these DIY builds. I see guys selling their builds all the time. I doubt there is a profit or break even in the deal once labor is added in.





I think one that goes down a DIY path does it for a different reason and realize there might be a loss on the resale.

tonyb

Gorgeous man...wow.

Agreed, a DIY type is usually in it for personal enjoyment, not to resell and make a buck.

WLDock

tonyb wrote: »

Gorgeous man...wow.
Agreed, a DIY type is usually in it for personal enjoyment, not to resell and make a buck.

Yes, they are!
I keep telling myself that I can build something that sounds and looks good (maybe not as good as the above?) for the HT in the family room. I've been looking at the massive Statements II or Anthology and center channel over on Jim Holtz site:
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_1.html
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_6.html
Plus this BIG center channel: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41930-New-center-channels-for-the-Statements-II-and-The-Finalists
Maybe I give up on this for now and consider some Polks again down the line?

The reality is... maybe I should focus on building a set of small high performing monitors that I want for music listening in the living room.
Right now the Jeff Bagby SB Revolution Mini Be (Beryllium tweets!) would be a dream build. https://meniscusaudio.com/product/sb-revolution-mini-be-loudspeaker-kit/
I'm seriously thinking about these: They have the Oval woofer on the back like the Buchardt S400 and are supposed to sound much fuller and play much lower then their size would suggest. Great feedback from the DIY community.

mhardy6647

Speaking of these Bagby designs/kits, I just happened to see a new post to a build thread on one of them at:
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/stevenzs-diy-jeff-bagby-helix-dome-speaker-build.4818/

Seemed worth mentioning in the context of this thread.






(photos nicked from the above-mentioned thread)

gmcman

K_M wrote: »

If you ask the guys that design/engineer speakers, most do not believe in the botique crossover parts route.
Yes some speakers use truly mediocre crossover parts, and can be improved, but not all..

Safe bet the engineers aren't going to use caps in the neighborhood of $200 to $1K per cap or more, especially when trying to get a series of speakers back on its feet.....throws the profit margin out the window as well as potential sales.

It's up to the consumer to take the product to that last possible 10% if they so desire....that's what makes this hobby even more fun.

Nightfall

If you ask the guys that design/engineer cars, most will not tell you to put a big fat turbo, higher flowing fuel injectors and fuel pump on any of their cars either.