How do the new L800 SDA compare to the Original Legend SDA-SRS 1.2TL?

1246711

Comments

  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,375
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    Love it! We're (I mean you guys) already hot rodding the XO's! :)

    Hot Rodding the broads? I mean boards?

    Here's mine. Look at the inductors on this one. Do you have the capacity to resistor?

    iue5dum7ggus.jpg

    The dude looks like a lady
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,751
    dromunds wrote: »
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    Love it! We're (I mean you guys) already hot rodding the XO's! :)

    Hot Rodding the broads? I mean boards?

    Here's mine. Look at the inductors on this one. Do you have the capacity to resistor?

    iue5dum7ggus.jpg

    The dude looks like a lady

    Is that Russ?
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,640
    edited September 9
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    Hard to tell from the pic, inductors and all :) but is that a Cadillac? Coupe Deville or Eldorado
    I’m guessing.

    I did a little research and found it to be Dick Jackson’s custom 1957 T-bird. :)

    https://kustomrama.com/wiki/Dick_Jackson's_1957_Ford_Thunderbird

    Whew. At least it wasn't Dick Johnson. :/

    OK, I actually want to talk about the new SDA's XOs! :)

    Here's the thought I wanted to share. Passive crossovers are fundamentally simple. Not saying that the design or engineering is simple, but the components are. With fairly rare exceptions (tapped inductors and autoformers, e.g.), we're talkin' rather prosaic L, C, R (inductors, capacitors, and resistors) wired in series and/or parallel, and the wires to hook 'em together and hook the Gemisch to the drivers. Straightforward for a patient person to reverse engineer or for anyone who can read a schematic to clone (or 'improve', at least in terms of component substitution -- not talkin' about actual redesign).

    Now, my point is that 'souping up' the new L800 XOs is a straightforward exercise -- but -- I wonder whether the complexity (i.e., parts count) of the board(s) might mean that souped up XOs containing boutique Cs (especially), but also Ls and maybe even Rs might take up so much space (relative to the manufacturer's stuffed XO boards) as to impact the enclosure volume and thus the tuning of the speaker system?

    Not trying to be an alarmist (!) -- just musing.

  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,630
    edited September 9
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Viking64 wrote: »
    verb wrote: »
    Hard to tell from the pic, inductors and all :) but is that a Cadillac? Coupe Deville or Eldorado
    I’m guessing.

    I did a little research and found it to be Dick Jackson’s custom 1957 T-bird. :)

    https://kustomrama.com/wiki/Dick_Jackson's_1957_Ford_Thunderbird

    Whew. At least it wasn't Dick Johnson. :/

    OK, I actually want to talk about the new SDA's XOs! :)

    Here's the thought I wanted to share. Passive crossovers are fundamentally simple. Not saying that the design or engineering is simple, but the components are. With fairly rare exceptions (tapped inductors and autoformers, e.g.), we're talkin' rather prosaic L, C, R (inductors, capacitors, and resistors) wired in series and/or parallel, and the wires to hook 'em together and hook the Gemisch to the drivers. Straightforward for a patient person to reverse engineer or for anyone who can read a schematic to clone (or 'improve', at least in terms of component substitution -- not talkin' about actual redesign).

    Now, my point is that 'souping up' the new L800 XOs is a straightforward exercise -- but -- I wonder whether the complexity (i.e., parts count) of the board(s) might mean that souped up XOs containing boutique Cs (especially), but also Ls and maybe even Rs might take up so much space (relative to the manufacturer's stuffed XO boards) as to impact the enclosure volume and thus the tuning of the speaker system?

    Not trying to be an alarmist (!) -- just musing.

    @mhardy6647's comments, along with @DarqueKnight's and @Vr3's capture exactly my concerns that prompted my question above.

    Those concerns were: 1) about the compactness of the stock circuit board, which begs the question whether a new "Gimpod" board would be needed to accommodate new "oversized" components [Ls, Cs,Rs], and 2) whether with such a redesigned printed circuit board with oversized components would require an external crossover enclosure, as @Vr3 suggested.

    @Vr3 had to be extremely creative to build his top-of-the-line SDA SRS 1.2tl crossovers in a configuration that would fit into stock speaker enclosures. The pictures I have seen of the L800 crossovers and enclosures indicate to me that even Trey might not be creative enough to build very high-end crossovers that could be put in the speaker enclosures of the L800s. The crossovers appear to be very compactly designed, and it is not obvious where there would be space available in the speaker enclosures.
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II; AQ Sky XLRs, McIntosh MC 220 Tube Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,640
    Two thoughts spring to mind.

    Thought the first:
    It would be possible, if inelegant, to use the stock board and wire the boutique
    components to it via "pigtails" (and, mind you, I am all about inelegance, as y'all know!).

    Thought the second:
    There's a lot to be said for outboarding XOs (IMO). If nothing else, one'll see the smoke if too much power is bein' dissipated by 'em. :|


  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,654
    VR3 wrote: »
    Absolutely, changing them with a cap like the Clarity Cap CSA and the resistors to Jantzen superes would yield gains. Everything can be improved, there is truly no limit in audio. You could build an enclosure externally the size of the speakers, drop $30k in duelund caps and resistors. The world is your oyster!! haha
    Yes ,the only limitations are your cash flow and your desire.
    I see in the pics of the stock crossovers that the parts have been tested and values written on them. I wonder if this was done for the prototyping only? Or if it will be done in production? Holding crossover parts to a tight tolerance would certainly help keep frequency response consistent from sample to sample.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,946
    edited September 9
    FTGV wrote: »
    VR3 wrote: »
    Absolutely, changing them with a cap like the Clarity Cap CSA and the resistors to Jantzen superes would yield gains. Everything can be improved, there is truly no limit in audio. You could build an enclosure externally the size of the speakers, drop $30k in duelund caps and resistors. The world is your oyster!! haha

    I see in the pics of the stock crossovers that the parts have been tested and values written on them. I wonder if this was done for the prototyping only? Or if it will be done in production? Holding crossover parts to a tight tolerance would certainly help keep frequency response consistent from sample to sample.

    I was also wondering that same thing. I honestly couldn't see them doing it for the production models but one never knows. Although I'm sure a lot has changed since early Polk when some XO's looked like Monday morning or Friday mix and maybe somewhat matched parts. Looking at my factory SRS 2.3tl XO's they looked completely different from each other and explained why I could never get them dialed in at all. I bought them used and the owners nephew had told me his uncle always thought something was missing as the in store demo models sounded so much better. I figured it was just his gear and room interactions were so different from the store demo models. Seems he was onto something actually as he had not used them in 20 yrs. and replaced them with Legacy Whispers according to the nephew.
  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,654
    edited September 9
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I was also wondering that same thing. I honestly couldn't see them doing it for the production models but one never knows. Although I'm sure a lot has changed since early Polk when some XO's looked like Monday morning or Friday mix and maybe somewhat matched parts. Looking at my factory SRS 2.3tl XO's they looked completely different from each other and explained why I could never get them dialed in at all. I bought them used and the owners nephew had told me his uncle always thought something was missing as the in store demo models sounded so much better. I figured it was just his gear and room interactions were so different from the store demo models. Seems he was onto something actually as he had not used them in 20 yrs. and replaced them with Legacy Whispers according to the nephew.

    Yeah, with that amount of complexity and the use of inexpensive ,probably wide tolerance parts. The potential for frequency response errors/differences from unit to unit is certainly possible if they don't attempt to match them.


  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,557
    edited September 12
    I haven't read through all the threads focused on the new SDA model, but I wonder if they can be pulled out into the room a bit?

    The only "downside" to the older models, to ME, is the Stage is a little shallow, it would be keen if you could obtain a deeper stage with the new Series, as well as the width and imaging of the Original.
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,530
    I think the placement away from the front wall is more like a conventional speaker than the original SDA design allowed. It looks like the L800s were set up in the RMAF hotel suite about 2 to 3 feet in front of a long row of curtain covered windows. Not ideal, but such setups rarely are.

    I think from what I've seen so far that the dual driver ported woofer design is intended for clean output that is not all that placement dependent relative to walls. They appear to be more like conventional speakers except that they can't be toed in and they need to have side walls to reflect sound off of and envelope a listener in the sweet spot. Side walls can't be too close nor can they be too far, but I have no idea yet what the workable distances are.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,557
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I think the placement away from the front wall is more like a conventional speaker than the original SDA design allowed. It looks like the L800s were set up in the RMAF hotel suite about 2 to 3 feet in front of a long row of curtain covered windows. Not ideal, but such setups rarely are.

    I think from what I've seen so far that the dual driver ported woofer design is intended for clean output that is not all that placement dependent relative to walls. They appear to be more like conventional speakers except that they can't be toed in and they need to have side walls to reflect sound off of and envelope a listener in the sweet spot. Side walls can't be too close nor can they be too far, but I have no idea yet what the workable distances are.

    Then I would guess, without the set-up constraints of the old SDA, that the new version "should" throw a deeper stage. This would be the Icing for me,

    F1nut wrote: »
    My demo at Polk of the L800 had an extremely wide soundstage, well outside of the cabinets. In fact, I have no problem calling it huge.

    Good to know, a proper Demo is on my "Priority List". I might have to make trip to Texas if Derek can get a pair lined up.



    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • BDTBDT Posts: 212
    F1nut wrote: »
    In fact, I have no problem calling it huge.

    That's what she said.

    HAAARRRRRRRR!

    BDT

  • verbverb Posts: 8,260
    F1nut wrote: »
    My demo at Polk of the L800 had an extremely wide soundstage, well outside of the cabinets. In fact, I have no problem calling it huge.

    I have not heard them, want to badly, but as always got to defer to Jesse's opinion here. Can't wait! :)
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • F1nut wrote: »
    My demo at Polk of the L800 had an extremely wide soundstage, well outside of the cabinets. In fact, I have no problem calling it huge.

    Wow, that's a drastically different perception that what I experienced at the RMAF. I was really hoping they would blow away the old SDAs, but that's not the opinion I walked away with. Did anyone else go to RMAF and think the demo didn't do them justice? I'd guess the room and/or placement was less than ideal...

    I'll definitely check them out again when they show up in a showroom floor somewhere in Denver!
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,606
    edited September 13
    I don't care about a showroom... That is just the introduction. How they play, at home and with your gear, that is what you need to see and hear.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,571
    I'm curious to know more about the Amp limitations
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,640
    VR3 wrote: »
    I'm curious to know more about the Amp limitations

    me, too...
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,303
    me too...love my CRS+'s that are 4.1 TL'ed...and my SDA 2B's that I stole the crossover's from my CRS since they are the same :) all made by Dave as was my Dreadnaught or how ever you so choose to spell it.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • I don't care about a showroom... That is just the introduction. How they play, at home and with your gear, that is what you need to see and hear.

    Good point, it's hard to argue with that, expect $6,000 is a bit steep for most average people to just try on a whim without being convinced in a showroom. Ironically, it's almost about the same amount of money you would have paid for some SRS's/1.2's back in the day (adjusted for inflation)...
  • nikolas812nikolas812 Posts: 2,944
    I know it's early. But my money is on modded 1.2tl's...


    Nik
  • ptrooperptrooper Posts: 321
    stock to stock or modded 1.2's and Modded L800'S
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,606
    How ya doing Nik! Long time no see.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • gudnoyezgudnoyez Posts: 7,084
    edited September 14
    BDT wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    In fact, I have no problem calling it huge.

    That's what she said.

    HAAARRRRRRRR!

    BDT

    To funny they always say that :o if the L800S can best my 2.3tls then I wouldn't mind dropping that amount of coin on them being my last pair of Speakers I purchased. Listening to the 2.3tls today was a pleasure like always.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,297
    Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • verbverb Posts: 8,260
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Or one could just buy a speaker and enjoy it for a few years before trying to make it better.

    Yep! Probably that'll be my path. At the beginning of course! :)
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,606
    I see 2k minimum just in caps/resistors and chokes on that crossover board. My only wish not met on these speakers is they did not go DmD or ribbon on those tweets.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!