Best speaker wire
Comments
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All I know is I didn’t believe.
Then I heard it for myself.Joey's Gear:
Current Gear:
Primary:
Digital: Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x
Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
+ Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
Secondary:
Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
Tertiary:
Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2
Main speakers system evolution over the years:
Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???
Old Gear:
Speakers:
BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
Source:
Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
Preamplification:
Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
Amplification:
HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
Subwoofer:
Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2 -
And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” -
nooshinjohn wrote: »And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig.
When Joey goes in he goes all in. Now if he'd just spend some on some new shorts... -
ken brydson wrote: »nooshinjohn wrote: »And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig.
When Joey goes in he goes all in. Now if he'd just spend some on some new shorts...
If Audioquest just made some "wildwear" he'd be styling -
I simply don't get this "placebo effect" "expectation bias" thing. Over the years I've returned, resold or resold and taken a hit over things that didn't work out for me. Some of them were significant outlays compared to my means and I wanted them to work.
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txcoastal1 wrote: »
Besides, no one likes me anyway
I go away for 36 years and come back to this???????
Okay, let's try it again, go to the mirror and repeat after me..."I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me"!
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
HT
Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8B
Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2
2CH
Emotiva: ERC 3 connected via XLR's
Speakers
PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is -
Not me!
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I have discovered, after 53 years above dirt on this fine earth, that it is far easier to simply hate everyone with equal vigor.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” -
All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
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I find much more variety in whiskey and beer than I do wine. Whenever somebody asks me for wine, I start carrying on about crap like a snowflake college brat.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” -
Wires shouldn't be breaking in. They should how they are going to sound from the factory.Sorry to get back on topic, but I just listened to my new DYI cables for about an hour and now they seem a bit bright. Getting back to my earlier question, do speaker cables need time to break in? What I hear now is reminiscent, but now as bad, as when I had my XO's rebuilt and upgraded to RDO194's. Back then the sound was bright and even a little raspy. After about 200 hours, as per F1's advise, they were completely settled in and now sound great. Now with the cable switch, so far, I feel like I am back there again, a bit. Should I wait awhile before passing judgment, or is this a case of it is what it is?
Wire, the metal conductor part of a cable, does not break in, but the dielectric properties of the cable insulation can change over time. This has to do with the ability of the cable insulation to store and release energy - an cause noise and distortion.nooshinjohn wrote: »To hear differences in audio equipment or cables, you need to be using components that are of a level that the typical stuff from Best Buy can’t touch.
You're being elitist and an audio snob.
"So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK -
I would love to see your analysis on the effects of high performance audio cables on entry-level AVR’s, DVD players and speakers.... should make for a fun read. The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Wire, the metal conductor part of a cable, does not break in, but the dielectric properties of the cable insulation can change over time. This has to do with the ability of the cable insulation to store and release energy - an cause noise and distortion.
That shouldn't be happening.
Insulation is supposed to prevent interference with signal transmission. If it is coloring the signal then that is a problem.
There are times when a polarizing insulation is important. Things like radiation barriers or certain kinds of antennas. Otherwise, a dielectric is better suited for things like capacitors where they don't work without it or like in phase shifters, voltage controlled oscillators or tunable filters like what is used in certain radar systems where the dielectric properties improve performance.
In audio, a clean, unfettered, unmolested signal path is the desired result. Wire insulation that has dielectric properties strong enough to create signal abnormalities that manifest in audible manners is undesirable insulation. All insulation is going to have an effect of some sort but to deliberately choose a material for insulation that has a dielectric property that creates force of any kind on the signal path is the exact opposite of what a wire should be doing. If you have cables that are doing that, you need to get different ones because that is a failure, not a feature. Even if it was intended by design.
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
In audio, a clean, unfettered, unmolested signal path is the desired result. Wire insulation that has dielectric properties strong enough to create signal abnormalities that manifest in audible manners is undesirable insulation. All insulation is going to have an effect of some sort but to deliberately choose a material for insulation that has a dielectric property that creates force of any kind on the signal path is the exact opposite of what a wire should be doing. If you have cables that are doing that, you need to get different ones because that is a failure, not a feature. Even if it was intended by design.
Might disagree there John. Nice theory, but in practical use it doesn't hold water because everything in the chain effects the sound in some manner. Change the internal wiring in your speakers and the sound changes, doesn't mean the new wire is broken, just that it has different properties....and that will effect the sound.
From the recording to your ears, the signal path has been molested numerous times. Between the gear playing it, the source, the pre, the dac, the amp and the speakers along with every interconnect and speaker cable used.
In audio, one camp certainly professes a shorter signal path is the best, for the reasons I just explained in the previous paragraph. Less gear, less cabling, shorter path, may indeed grant you a better sound, in theory anyway, but as we know sound is not a one size fits all game to play.
It could be said, everything I just mentioned is simply coloring the sound, and you'd be right. However, coloring the sound plays into personal preferences and one's idea of what good sound should sound like. If nothing molested the signal, in a perfect world, every CDP would sound the same, every pre/dac/amp, cables, and even speakers to some degree.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
mdaudioguy wrote: »All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
Bottle you say? Whats this? I thought it only came in square?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »mdaudioguy wrote: »All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
Bottle you say? Whats this? I thought it only came in square?
more like rectangular or a cardboard cylinder of some some lol...Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 700 x3; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
Master Bedroom
Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Don't you boys get me started on wine.
Actually I can relate wine to the thread topic. Some say they can't taste a difference in wine, good, you saved yourself some coin then. Same with cables.
Some say wine, like cables, gets better as you move up in price points. It does...
Some say wine's characteristics are defined by various things such as the type of grape used, the ground it's grown in, climate, storage temps, aging, etc. Everything matters in the chain of processes to the final taste that hits your mouth. Cable building also has a few processes involved, and pairing those characteristics to those of the associated gear will give your ears the best taste of sound defined by your preferences.
Some people are happy as a clam drinking cheap wine, pleases their taste buds and they see no reason to spend more. Others may have a more demanding taste bud and like the more expensive wines. Cables are no different.
The commonality, is personal preferences, which dictate what we buy, what we use, what we listen to. In order to please the various differences in preferences, we have a variety of products to suit any of them. So yes, in food, wine, and audio, everything colors the sound, tastes, to please the end user. Nothing else matters to that one persons preferences.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder
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Don't you boys get me started on wine.
Actually I can relate wine to the thread topic. Some say they can't taste a difference in wine, good, you saved yourself some coin then. Same with cables.
Some say wine, like cables, gets better as you move up in price points. It does...
Some say wine's characteristics are defined by various things such as the type of grape used, the ground it's grown in, climate, storage temps, aging, etc. Everything matters in the chain of processes to the final taste that hits your mouth. Cable building also has a few processes involved, and pairing those characteristics to those of the associated gear will give your ears the best taste of sound defined by your preferences.
Some people are happy as a clam drinking cheap wine, pleases their taste buds and they see no reason to spend more. Others may have a more demanding taste bud and like the more expensive wines. Cables are no different.
The commonality, is personal preferences, which dictate what we buy, what we use, what we listen to. In order to please the various differences in preferences, we have a variety of products to suit any of them. So yes, in food, wine, and audio, everything colors the sound, tastes, to please the end user. Nothing else matters to that one persons preferences.
But Tony.......................what about expectation bias??? If you buy an expensive bottle of wine IT HAS TO TASTE GREAT, I mean.............you're expecting it to. Even if it tastes like vinegar your "human factor" is going to trick you into liking it because it cost so much, RIGHT!!!
LMAO at the whole expectation bias.
If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for. So that theory just doesn't hold water in and of itself, atleast for me personally. For the many things I am well versed in or have dialed in particular preferences, expectation bias is a non-starter.
By nature I am analytical and skeptical to the point of annoyance to those around me when it comes to choosing anything, albeit audio, wine, steaks, craft beer, etc. And I am a cheap skate in the fact that I like things that are a good value.
Anyone can go pick out a great $100 bottle of wine, but I prefer to find that $30-40 bottle of wine that tastes very similar if not almost exactly as good as the $100 bottle of wine, as an analogy.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul! -
mdaudioguy wrote: »All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
10-4.
(Imagine my surprise to find a photo of our wine cellar on the internet...)
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Looks like the start of a great day! Lol
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul! -
What, No strawberry Hill?Hafler DH220 Power amp Recapped
Hafler DH110 Preamp Recapped
Hafler Digital FM Tuner
Virtue Audio M1 Piano CD Player
Technics SL-1210-MK5 with a Rega Exact Cartridge
Polk SDA1c's(Rebuilt XO's by Ben) RDO194 Tweeters -
What, No strawberry Hill?
Country Kwencher...
(but that's a vin blanc -- like that bottle of Thunderbird that snuck into the photo above)
I've told all y'all my Boones' Farm story, right?
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Looks like the start of a great day! Lol
H9
Then comes the baaad night.
RAAALLLPHHHH! -
Consider those wine choices the equivalent to Home Depot copper speaker wire!
RAAALLLLPHHHH.......
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul! -
If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for.
Ed Zachary!
Unfortunately, there seem to be many incapable of obtaining that skill level as it relates to audio and life in general.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
SPEAKER wire.... my bad, I thought this was about SPEARKER cables, and everybody knows those all sound the same.Consider those wine choices the equivalent to Home Depot copper speaker wire!
RAAALLLLPHHHH.......
H9
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” -
Yamaha RX-A2070, Music Hall A70.2 integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, L600, L400, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Fluance RT85, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios.
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DarqueKnight wrote: »
I would have to disagree here. Just like a river. Atoms, molecules and electrons can and will move ever so slightly to create the path of least resistance.Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.
by Dr. Sardonicus -
If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for.
Ed Zachary!
Unfortunately, there seem to be many incapable of obtaining that skill level as it relates to audio and life in general.
Yep, I'm more critical of nicer more expensive things also. Everyone has a certain expectation bias, but one must deal in reality also.
Sometimes I have a higher than normal expectation, and a piece may exceed it., or fall flat on it's face. Sometimes I have a low expectation, and am pleasantly surprised. I just call them as I hear them, no matter if it's my money or someone elses.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
