Best speaker wire

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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,463
    And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig. :pB)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 15,982
    And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig. :pB)

    When Joey goes in he goes all in. Now if he'd just spend some on some new shorts...

    If Audioquest just made some "wildwear" he'd be styling B)
  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 644
    I simply don't get this "placebo effect" "expectation bias" thing. Over the years I've returned, resold or resold and taken a hit over things that didn't work out for me. Some of them were significant outlays compared to my means and I wanted them to work.
  • Geoff4rfcGeoff4rfc Posts: 1,786
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    Besides, no one likes me anyway

    I go away for 36 years and come back to this???????

    Okay, let's try it again, go to the mirror and repeat after me..."I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me"!

    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman

    HT
    Source: Panasonic UB9000 - Display: LG OLED 65 8B
    Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2

    2CH
    Emotiva: ERC 3 connected via XLR's

    Speakers
    PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9


    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 15,982
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    Besides, no one likes me anyway

    doggone it, people like me"!

    Not me!



















































    :o

  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,135
    All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,463
    I find much more variety in whiskey and beer than I do wine. Whenever somebody asks me for wine, I start carrying on about crap like a snowflake college brat.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,637
    edited January 2019
    Jstas wrote: »
    Wires shouldn't be breaking in. They should how they are going to sound from the factory.
    gdphoto wrote: »
    Sorry to get back on topic, but I just listened to my new DYI cables for about an hour and now they seem a bit bright. Getting back to my earlier question, do speaker cables need time to break in? What I hear now is reminiscent, but now as bad, as when I had my XO's rebuilt and upgraded to RDO194's. Back then the sound was bright and even a little raspy. After about 200 hours, as per F1's advise, they were completely settled in and now sound great. Now with the cable switch, so far, I feel like I am back there again, a bit. Should I wait awhile before passing judgment, or is this a case of it is what it is?

    Wire, the metal conductor part of a cable, does not break in, but the dielectric properties of the cable insulation can change over time. This has to do with the ability of the cable insulation to store and release energy - an cause noise and distortion.
    To hear differences in audio equipment or cables, you need to be using components that are of a level that the typical stuff from Best Buy can’t touch.

    You're being elitist and an audio snob. >:)

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,463
    I would love to see your analysis on the effects of high performance audio cables on entry-level AVR’s, DVD players and speakers.... should make for a fun read. :p
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,079
    Wire, the metal conductor part of a cable, does not break in, but the dielectric properties of the cable insulation can change over time. This has to do with the ability of the cable insulation to store and release energy - an cause noise and distortion.

    That shouldn't be happening.

    Insulation is supposed to prevent interference with signal transmission. If it is coloring the signal then that is a problem.

    There are times when a polarizing insulation is important. Things like radiation barriers or certain kinds of antennas. Otherwise, a dielectric is better suited for things like capacitors where they don't work without it or like in phase shifters, voltage controlled oscillators or tunable filters like what is used in certain radar systems where the dielectric properties improve performance.

    In audio, a clean, unfettered, unmolested signal path is the desired result. Wire insulation that has dielectric properties strong enough to create signal abnormalities that manifest in audible manners is undesirable insulation. All insulation is going to have an effect of some sort but to deliberately choose a material for insulation that has a dielectric property that creates force of any kind on the signal path is the exact opposite of what a wire should be doing. If you have cables that are doing that, you need to get different ones because that is a failure, not a feature. Even if it was intended by design.

    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,252
    Jstas wrote: »

    In audio, a clean, unfettered, unmolested signal path is the desired result. Wire insulation that has dielectric properties strong enough to create signal abnormalities that manifest in audible manners is undesirable insulation. All insulation is going to have an effect of some sort but to deliberately choose a material for insulation that has a dielectric property that creates force of any kind on the signal path is the exact opposite of what a wire should be doing. If you have cables that are doing that, you need to get different ones because that is a failure, not a feature. Even if it was intended by design.

    Might disagree there John. Nice theory, but in practical use it doesn't hold water because everything in the chain effects the sound in some manner. Change the internal wiring in your speakers and the sound changes, doesn't mean the new wire is broken, just that it has different properties....and that will effect the sound.

    From the recording to your ears, the signal path has been molested numerous times. Between the gear playing it, the source, the pre, the dac, the amp and the speakers along with every interconnect and speaker cable used.

    In audio, one camp certainly professes a shorter signal path is the best, for the reasons I just explained in the previous paragraph. Less gear, less cabling, shorter path, may indeed grant you a better sound, in theory anyway, but as we know sound is not a one size fits all game to play.

    It could be said, everything I just mentioned is simply coloring the sound, and you'd be right. However, coloring the sound plays into personal preferences and one's idea of what good sound should sound like. If nothing molested the signal, in a perfect world, every CDP would sound the same, every pre/dac/amp, cables, and even speakers to some degree.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 17,055
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.

    Bottle you say? Whats this? I thought it only came in square?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 6,326
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.

    Bottle you say? Whats this? I thought it only came in square?

    more like rectangular or a cardboard cylinder of some some lol...
    Living Room 2.1: Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkii; Martin Logan Grotto sub; Cambridge Azur 851A; Cambridge Azur 851D; Bryston BPD-1
    Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Definitive Technology SM350; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,252
    Don't you boys get me started on wine. :)

    Actually I can relate wine to the thread topic. Some say they can't taste a difference in wine, good, you saved yourself some coin then. Same with cables.

    Some say wine, like cables, gets better as you move up in price points. It does...

    Some say wine's characteristics are defined by various things such as the type of grape used, the ground it's grown in, climate, storage temps, aging, etc. Everything matters in the chain of processes to the final taste that hits your mouth. Cable building also has a few processes involved, and pairing those characteristics to those of the associated gear will give your ears the best taste of sound defined by your preferences.

    Some people are happy as a clam drinking cheap wine, pleases their taste buds and they see no reason to spend more. Others may have a more demanding taste bud and like the more expensive wines. Cables are no different.

    The commonality, is personal preferences, which dictate what we buy, what we use, what we listen to. In order to please the various differences in preferences, we have a variety of products to suit any of them. So yes, in food, wine, and audio, everything colors the sound, tastes, to please the end user. Nothing else matters to that one persons preferences.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,692
    Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    tonyb wrote: »
    Don't you boys get me started on wine. :)

    Actually I can relate wine to the thread topic. Some say they can't taste a difference in wine, good, you saved yourself some coin then. Same with cables.

    Some say wine, like cables, gets better as you move up in price points. It does...

    Some say wine's characteristics are defined by various things such as the type of grape used, the ground it's grown in, climate, storage temps, aging, etc. Everything matters in the chain of processes to the final taste that hits your mouth. Cable building also has a few processes involved, and pairing those characteristics to those of the associated gear will give your ears the best taste of sound defined by your preferences.

    Some people are happy as a clam drinking cheap wine, pleases their taste buds and they see no reason to spend more. Others may have a more demanding taste bud and like the more expensive wines. Cables are no different.

    The commonality, is personal preferences, which dictate what we buy, what we use, what we listen to. In order to please the various differences in preferences, we have a variety of products to suit any of them. So yes, in food, wine, and audio, everything colors the sound, tastes, to please the end user. Nothing else matters to that one persons preferences.

    But Tony.......................what about expectation bias??? If you buy an expensive bottle of wine IT HAS TO TASTE GREAT, I mean.............you're expecting it to. Even if it tastes like vinegar your "human factor" is going to trick you into liking it because it cost so much, RIGHT!!!

    LMAO at the whole expectation bias.

    If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for. So that theory just doesn't hold water in and of itself, atleast for me personally. For the many things I am well versed in or have dialed in particular preferences, expectation bias is a non-starter.

    By nature I am analytical and skeptical to the point of annoyance to those around me when it comes to choosing anything, albeit audio, wine, steaks, craft beer, etc. And I am a cheap skate in the fact that I like things that are a good value.

    Anyone can go pick out a great $100 bottle of wine, but I prefer to find that $30-40 bottle of wine that tastes very similar if not almost exactly as good as the $100 bottle of wine, as an analogy.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    Looks like the start of a great day! Lol

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • gdphotogdphoto Posts: 151
    What, No strawberry Hill?
    Hafler DH220 Power amp Recapped
    Hafler DH110 Preamp Recapped
    Hafler Digital FM Tuner
    Virtue Audio M1 Piano CD Player
    Technics SL-1210-MK5 with a Rega Exact Cartridge
    Polk SDA1c's(Rebuilt XO's by Ben) RDO194 Tweeters
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 24,898
    edited January 2019
    gdphoto wrote: »
    What, No strawberry Hill?

    Country Kwencher...
    (but that's a vin blanc -- like that bottle of Thunderbird that snuck into the photo above)

    I've told all y'all my Boones' Farm story, right? :)

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 15,982
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Looks like the start of a great day! Lol

    H9

    Then comes the baaad night.
    RAAALLLPHHHH!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    Consider those wine choices the equivalent to Home Depot copper speaker wire!

    RAAALLLLPHHHH.......

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,040
    edited January 2019
    If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for.

    Ed Zachary!

    Unfortunately, there seem to be many incapable of obtaining that skill level as it relates to audio and life in general.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,463
    edited January 2019
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Consider those wine choices the equivalent to Home Depot copper speaker wire!

    RAAALLLLPHHHH.......

    H9
    SPEAKER wire.... my bad, I thought this was about SPEARKER cables, and everybody knows those all sound the same.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • MilitoMilito Posts: 818
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    gdphoto wrote: »
    What, No strawberry Hill?

    I've told all y'all my Boones' Farm story, right? :)

    I've got a few college stories about Boones Farm also.

    Yamaha RX-A2070, B&K 4420 Reference, HSU VTF-2 MK5, LSiM705, LSiM704, Technics PD867, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Cullen Gold Power Cable, Signal Power Cables, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Fluance RT85, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 1,987
    Jstas wrote: »
    Wires shouldn't be breaking in. They should how they are going to sound from the factory.
    Wire, the metal conductor part of a cable, does not break in

    I would have to disagree here. Just like a river. Atoms, molecules and electrons can and will move ever so slightly to create the path of least resistance.
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,252
    F1nut wrote: »
    If anything, for me, I am even more critical of something I have high expectations for.

    Ed Zachary!

    Unfortunately, there seem to be many incapable of obtaining that skill level as it relates to audio and life in general.



    Yep, I'm more critical of nicer more expensive things also. Everyone has a certain expectation bias, but one must deal in reality also.

    Sometimes I have a higher than normal expectation, and a piece may exceed it., or fall flat on it's face. Sometimes I have a low expectation, and am pleasantly surprised. I just call them as I hear them, no matter if it's my money or someone elses.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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