Best speaker wire

11213151718

Comments

  • MilitoMilito Posts: 571
    edited January 2
    I can only speak about my experience and I don't have near the experience of most of you in home audio. I have a low end setup compared to many here, but when I added my Audioquest type 4 speaker cables I noticed a significant difference from the no name speaker wiring I had.

    I also recently added a Outlaw 5000 to my Yamaha 2070. I had some cheap no name interconnect cables in the attic I had to use till I got some better interconnects. I recently added AudioQuest Black Mamba II Audio Interconnects to my 3:1 setup and the sound has improved more than I thought it would. Much more open and detailed than before, just a better overall sound. It made a believer out of me as far as the improvement you can get from adding better cables.

    I had been little disappointed in the sound after adding the 5000, but thought that hopefully getting better interconnects would allow a true test of the performance of the 5000. Thankfully I was right and now my system sounds much better than before. Now I don't feel like I wasted my money getting the 5000.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Outlaw 5000, HSU VTF-2 MK5, LSiM705, LSiM704, Sony BPD-S3200, Technics PD867, Audio-Technica AT-LP60, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Cullen Gold Power Cable, Signal Power Cables, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F.
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,356
    edited January 2
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    On Another board I frequent, cable topics are reserved for those who only have something positive to contribute, and usually arguments by naysayers are deleted by mods, as they usually have very little to contribute to the conversation. It’s interesting becuase conversations stay on topic, and we don’t have cable non-believers coming out of the wood work to try to “save us from ourselves”.

    I suppose that works when people seek positive reinforcement about a purchase.

    I know when I buy something and later read bad reviews. I get upset also. I like to see good things, it gives you that "good warm feeling", and reading something negative makes me not like my purchase as much or have feelings I do not like.

    Maybe a good idea, maybe not.

    K_M we already have plenty of threads of what your stance is on cable, do we need more?

    That should be sent to me in PM.
    Comments of a personal nature, (my posting style) not related to the topic at hand would be better dealt with on a one to one basis.

    But I get you want to make your comment seen by many, possibly so they can join in and agree with you or "like" your comment, I really do get how it will make you feel wanted and good.
    I get how you guys are, I really do.
    It feels great to get agreement, and have others say the same thing.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,560
    edited January 2
    It was a question, not to make me feel warm and fuzzy. Do you feel warm and fuzzy when people try to close down threads because they think we are "piling on", when they don't know your history of cable threads?

    FYI I can careless about the "like" etc responses, if i cared I would be on facebook

    Besides, no one likes me anyway
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,559
    K_M wrote: »
    I know when I buy something and later read bad reviews. I get upset also. I like to see good things, it gives you that "good warm feeling", and reading something negative makes me not like my purchase as much or have feelings I do not like.

    This is very telling.

    It's really sad that you would be so easily negatively influenced and swayed by the opinions of others. If you like something you should like, or dislike, it because of your perceptions and experience, not because other people like, or dislike, it too.

    The experiences of others can provide some insight, but what really matters is what you hear with your ears, equipment, and room.

    It appears that most of your issues have to do with projecting your own insecurities on others. You don't trust your abilities to evaluate sound, therefore you don't trust anyone else's either...unless it is agreed upon by a large group of people.

    My pursuit of this hobby is driven by the desire to hear music well played, not by the fear and insecurity that someone, or a lot of people, might say something negative about what I like.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,347
    I have read all sides of this and here is my honest opinion:
    Speaker wire - when i went from monoprice Am***n cheap speaker cable to my AQ type 4 factory terminated wires (4 sep wires, two per speaker - biamping) , I noticed a difference in the upper registers of the sound - meaning the highs were more defined. No other changes were noticed.
    When I swapped out my Monster HT power center to the AQ Thunder/Niagara combo, ALL areas of the sound were changed, imaging, mids, lows, highs and overall power.
    To be honest, no other cables and wires have made a large enough difference for me to tell. I have a hard time telling between IC's and the XLR's I have upgraded, along with the power cables (besides the big AQ swap)
    Full disclosure I have had too many upgrades in the past few months to be clear about slight changes in sonics between some of the wire upgrades I did, I am not familiar enough with my components yet. But I am sure that if I go ahead with some of the planned upgraded wires I have coming up, I will be familiar enough with all of them to make an honest judgement.
    @k_m you make the point of "purchase rationalization" otherwise known as placebo effect. I am sure for some, there is some of this going on, but I will tell you for most audiophiles, we are listening for any sonic benefit added for any $$ spent. I have regretted some of my purchases because of no perceivable change but accepted the end result of these as "win some, lose some"
    I have a questions to ask, do you think there is a sonic benefit to separates (pre and amp) vs an all in one unit for amplification and signal processing?

    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,075
    K_M wrote: »
    We all know cables can only make a small difference.

    But how do you know that, since you refuse to try an aftermarket power cable?
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 2,362
    Every time I visit this forum (seems I'm up to 3,993 now), I realize how much I can't stand being here.

    Is there a psychiatrist in the house? :/ :open_mouth:
    How about a rep from Overthinkers Anonymous?
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,560
    polrbehr wrote: »
    Every time I visit this forum (seems I'm up to 3,993 now), I realize how much I can't stand being here.

    Is there a psychiatrist in the house? :/ :open_mouth:
    How about a rep from Overthinkers Anonymous?


    Have you tried "sitting" :p

    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • MilitoMilito Posts: 571
    I learned a lot time ago to not let what people say on a forum bother me too much.

    There are a lot of keyboard experts and warriors out there.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Outlaw 5000, HSU VTF-2 MK5, LSiM705, LSiM704, Sony BPD-S3200, Technics PD867, Audio-Technica AT-LP60, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Cullen Gold Power Cable, Signal Power Cables, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F.
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,052
    Man love this thread, just keeps on giving :)

    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,178
    Some people have made their minds up, could be their gear is the issue, could be they haven't tried the right cables. Once I heard the right cables it became more of an issue of diminishing returns for me. But before I heard the right cables I heard lots of them that did nothing or very little for me, some of them extremely well reviewed for the difference they would make. Whatever, won't do any good to keep this going past 250 posts. It's a new year.
  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 2,362
    edited January 2
    Some of the arguments about what's been said in this thread is based on expectation bias.

    Years ago, I test drove a Ford F150 Lariat Super Crew cab. After reading about them online, I had the idea before I opened the door that it would be sturdy, powerful, roomy, and comfortable. It was all that. So I bought it. Not to join the multitude of F150 owners, or to secure a place on the F150 Forum as a KoolAid drinker. Nope, it was a lot more complex than that - I tried it, I liked it, I own it. For almost 8 years now. And if someone wanted to know what they were like and knew me, I'd toss them the keys and say take it for a spin. Not because I'm a fanboy or getting commission on selling Fords, just because I like them and maybe someone else would enjoy one as much as I do. Shame on me, I guess.

    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,108
    edited January 2
    never mind.

    Beating a dead horse

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,108
    edited January 2
    never mind.

    Beating a dead
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,773
    K_M wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I bought some Zu audio jumpers and they sent paperwork that stated their wires need a good amount of break in time. So even some wire manufacturers believe it as well.

    "Break in" coming from a manufacturer means, if you do not hear what you expect to hear right away, they do not want you to return the item.
    If you give it time to "Break in" the longer you own them the less likely you will be inclined to return something.
    And usually over time, ones feelings of disappointment lessen and you simply do not care as much.

    I'm not looking to jump in the fray here because my opinions on cables are often not taken well because it seems that my position is a personal affront to everyone else so I stay out of the debate.

    However, "break in" is subjective.

    It's not a fake thing nor is it a ploy for a placebo effect to have time to come to fruition.

    In a wire/cable, unless the signal cable has noise reduction capacitors or loopback resistors wired in line, there shouldn't be a "break in" period for them. Wire should not change it's properties under normal use. If it does, there's an issue like oxidation which is counter to proper conduction of an electrical signal.

    In something like a speaker/driver, it's a very real thing. It's not often evident in full range or midrange drivers. But, in something like a high powered subwoofer, heavy surrounds made from thick butyl rubber with heavy voice coil formers and spiders, they can be stiff from the factory. Especially if they sat on a shelf somewhere for a while. It takes some time for one to loosen up and reach it's design specs under use. This is because the movement of the driver diaphragm fatigues the stiff parts to the point where they get compliant enough that they compliment the motor structure instead of fighting it. At this point they are "broken in".

    It's a lot like when you get a new pair of fine leather shoes. They were probably fitted to your feet then oiled and worked to gain compliance. Even so it still takes quite a few steps of walking in the them for the leather to stretch, flex and fatigue in all the rights spots to fit your foot shape, movement and walking gait. At first wear, you may think you just dumped a ton of money on a nice look pair of torture devices. But in a week's time, that changes, not because you are used to it but rather because the shoes are now accustomed to you.

    Wires shouldn't be breaking in. They should how they are going to sound from the factory.

    Wires with noise reduction and other passive modifiers attached to them can break in because those electrical components can change properties over repeated heat cycling under use.

    Almost any electronics device that isn't solely digital and needing an external DAC from a turntable to a tuner and even an amplifier can change over time as they break in and even as they wear out. This is especially evident with tube amplification. Any component that has an analog output (i.e.: left and right RCA cables) will eventually experience some level of signal degradation through deterioration of the components from normal use. Fully digital has no in between. It's either on or off despite the strength of the signal. If the digital signal strength is so far reduced that it falls outside of allowable error correction parameters then it will just not be picked up and not work at all. Because of this, to spend silly amounts of money on an HDMI cable or a TOSLINK cable is absurd. I mean, yeah, get a decent cable with good jacketing and good ends with good stress relief so that the cable lasts a good long time for you. But, unless a cable that transfers a digital signal either by electrons or by lasers (TOSLINK, fiber optic) is damaged, there's no need to replace it. There's also no discernible difference to a human ear between the signal quality provided by a $15 Monoprice HDMI cable and a $1500 Jim Bob's Expensive Magic Cable Company cable. If there is then, one of the cables is damaged in some way or even defective in such a manner that maybe a contact point is not fully engaging or a ground connection is inadequate due to a manufacturing defect.

    Speakers certainly do change over time as their parts fatigue and gain mass through dust collection in some areas and lose mass through use and fatigue in other areas. Enclosures that the drivers are mounted in can experience degradation from use as well and color the sound too.

    Break-in is a real thing. In some cases it's important as if you overdrive a speaker before it breaks in, you can damage it beyond repair. Wires, though...I'm seriously skeptical and would like to see some evidence of the changes in performance from a pre-break in period vs. a post break in period.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,122
    And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig. :p B)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,019
    And now you have more money invested in two power cables than I have in my entire rig. :p B)

    When Joey goes in he goes all in. Now if he'd just spend some on some new shorts...

    If Audioquest just made some "wildwear" he'd be styling B)
  • OleBootOleBoot Posts: 515
    I simply don't get this "placebo effect" "expectation bias" thing. Over the years I've returned, resold or resold and taken a hit over things that didn't work out for me. Some of them were significant outlays compared to my means and I wanted them to work.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,052
    I envy those who can’t hear a difference. I detest those who claim nobody else can. If you have to be one, be the former.

    I’ve heard massive changes in a clients system when the client heard no discernible difference. This is a cable believer too. To be honest I was quite shocked he didn’t hear them, but most of those changes weren’t tonal but spatial. The spatial qualities are what really improve as you move up into high end gear. Tone should be easy at that point though some gear does muck that up, including some cables.

    For the record, I don’t sell cables in demos. I sometimes will swap them and every time the client notices the difference. If it piques their interest I go in more. If they aren’t interested, well then, neither am I. There is no point in preaching that which will not be heard.
  • Geoff4rfcGeoff4rfc Posts: 1,748
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    Besides, no one likes me anyway

    I go away for 36 years and come back to this???????

    Okay, let's try it again, go to the mirror and repeat after me..."I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me"!

    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too

    HT
    Source: Oppo 103 - Display: Samsung QLED 65F
    Pre/Processor: Marnantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2

    2CH
    Emotiva: ERC 3

    Speakers
    PolkAudio Mains: LSiM707, C-706, SS: 702F/X, RS: RTiA9


    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,019
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    Besides, no one likes me anyway

    doggone it, people like me"!

    Not me!



















































    :o

  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,082
    All red wines taste the same, right? I mean, they pretty much do to me, at least in the $10-$15/bottle range.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,122
    I find much more variety in whiskey and beer than I do wine. Whenever somebody asks me for wine, I start carrying on about crap like a snowflake college brat.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!