Do power cables make a difference?

mhardy6647 · April 2018

I usually insert special characters via Word & then copy 'n' paste to here (or wherever)... or just copy 'em out of google when possible.

But, yeah, a y-umlaut would be tricky. (akin to Spinal Tap's n-umlaut, with which I have had poor success in finding in a pastable form)

but, nope, didn't remember that.

gp4jesus · April 2018

DSkip wrote: »

I'd personally liken it to tires on a car. If you've never bought a higher end tire, how do you actually know that they will improve the performance of the car?

I KNOW this one! Going from no-name garbage to TOTL Michelin grand touring tire on a basic V6 powered Tarus.

Darkest night to the brightest day difference in braking and handling. But... how does one convey that to another? I don’t know.

Ears!

Tony M · April 2018

gp4jesus wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

I'd personally liken it to tires on a car. If you've never bought a higher end tire, how do you actually know that they will improve the performance of the car?

I KNOW this one! Going from no-name garbage to TOTL Michelin grand touring tire on a basic V6 powered Tarus.

Darkest night to the brightest day difference in braking and handling. But... how does one convey that to another? I don’t know.

Ears!

Consumer Reports does or used to do in-depth scientific testing on tires. I used to like the braking differences. The sticking to the road on corners comments. They did a TON of testing on tires. Snow grip, summer grip and wet grip too.

mhardy6647 · April 2018

They (Consumers Reports) used to do extensive, exhaustive tests on things like loudspeakers, too - do folks think their top picks were the subjective 'best'?

Or even tires -- does their ranking of tires match yours (this is a rhetorical question for anyone with strong opinions about tires).

In fairness, they did rate the ol' EPI 100s highly -- and the EPI 100 is a good basic loudspeaker, which sold in far greater numbers because of their high CR rating then they would have otherwise, I am sure.

Unfortunately, they may not have ever ranked flavored, sweetened gelatin products.

Viking64 · April 2018

The thing I remember most about Consumer Reports is that they often over-emphasized features that weren't as important to me. I would cite examples, but I am too busy celebrating Hitler's Birthday (4/20).

Tony M · April 2018

Yea, I saw the decline of their audio product reviews. I don't see too many products in them besides the common I-Phones and Phone service and coverage and rates and such. The wireless age and Internet speeds are reviewed twice a year or so. They do promote Holiday products that are state of the art for that 6 months. They're always fun to look at. Some are $$$$ too.

CR is reviewing to the best of their abilities for our benefit, the consumer. Not the Sellers benefit.

You can choose to open their well informed and experienced testers opinion magazine or leave it closed.

I have chosen to open every one, every month for 40 years.

mpitogo · April 2018

speaking of cables ZeroFidelity

BlueFox · April 2018

K_M wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

Here's a good analogy.

I eat grape jello and cherry jello. I like both, but grape is more satisfying to me and my tastes.

K_M comes along and asks me to prove to her grape tastes better, she can't just rely on my individual tastes as a reference point. I can't prove to her that grape will taste better to her? How would I do that?

On top of it, she's unwilling to taste grape for herself, because I can't prove to her that grape tastes better to me. Like somehow if I can prove grape tastes better to me, then she will try grape for herself.

Sounds pretty illogical to predicate whether something will align with your likes and dislikes, abilities, shortcomings, etc based on someone else's interpretation, impressions, likes, dislikes, abilities, cognitive abilities, etc.

It's a very irrational argument, and has no answer. And deserves no attention. Yet here we are trying to make an illogical premise logical. Spock would be highly disappointed.

H9

We are talking about, whether an individual can actually identify a cable based on sound alone, and not sight. (knowing what is being used)

Who is this ‘We’?

F1nut · April 2018

K_M wrote: »

My why bother attitude, is based on no one being able to step up and "Show" what they claim.
I see you said YES to what I asked Tony.

I posted evidence from a reputable electrical engineer and musician, several posts back. But seems you either didn’t see it, or ignore it.

You misunderstand what type of "proof" I was asking for.
I asked if anyone could provide proof beyond their anecdotal account of being able to identify, a stock cable from an upgraded one.

In other words, simply put, can any of your guys in the forum identify cables based not on appearance, but based solely on listening to music?

DarqueKnight has posted nice color pics here taken from his spectrum analyzer showing the differences in power cords. You'll have to do the leg work to find them though.

gmcman · April 2018

Do mains fuses count?

I'm going to start a separate thread but I let my daughter listen to a few back to back tracks with the recapped REF 50's stock fuse then the Synergestic Blue and she said...oh yeah, this is more defined.

So safe bet the cords make a difference...I know mine did....it's just going to be system dependent.

Viking64 · April 2018

I bought one of those 7-gauge Pangea cords for my power amp. It wasn't that hard to manipulate and the instant improvement on the bottom end was *cough* SUBstantial.

BlueFox · April 2018

You need to beat the AC-9 with a rubber mallet for a few hours before using it in order to break it in.

Viking64 · April 2018

BlueFox wrote: »

You need to beat the AC-9 with a rubber mallet for a few hours before using it in order to break it in.

Initially, I plugged it directly into an old wall receptacle, and it seemed like it was going to rip it right out of the plaster/lath. HAHAHA

I ran a dedicated 20-amp home run to both my amp and my power conditioner, and now each receptacle is laying on the carpet in it's own box. Even more freedom for the AC-9.

dolbyd · April 2018

Viking64 wrote: »

I bought one of those 7-gauge Pangea cords for my power amp. It wasn't that hard to manipulate and the instant improvement on the bottom end was *cough* SUBstantial.

Did you go with the regular AC9 or the SS version?

I keep hearing that subs are really impressive with that cable.
Maybe they are eating Jell-O too.

Viking64 · April 2018

dolbyd wrote: »

Did you go with the regular AC9 or the SS version?

I keep hearing that subs are really impressive with that cable.
Maybe they are eating Jell-O too.

My amp's power cord is the regular AC-9. My other 3 power cords are the AC-14SE cords and my USB is a Premier SE.

verb · April 2018

F1nut wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

My why bother attitude, is based on no one being able to step up and "Show" what they claim.
I see you said YES to what I asked Tony.

I posted evidence from a reputable electrical engineer and musician, several posts back. But seems you either didn’t see it, or ignore it.

You misunderstand what type of "proof" I was asking for.
I asked if anyone could provide proof beyond their anecdotal account of being able to identify, a stock cable from an upgraded one.

In other words, simply put, can any of your guys in the forum identify cables based not on appearance, but based solely on listening to music?

DarqueKnight has posted nice color pics here taken from his spectrum analyzer showing the differences in power cords. You'll have to do the leg work to find them though.

I believe this is the beginning of his multi-part series of threads. Pictures are gone though. Part one is missing too.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/71382/studies-on-residential-power-line-noise-part-2

mdaudioguy · April 2018

verb wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

My why bother attitude, is based on no one being able to step up and "Show" what they claim.
I see you said YES to what I asked Tony.

I posted evidence from a reputable electrical engineer and musician, several posts back. But seems you either didn’t see it, or ignore it.

You misunderstand what type of "proof" I was asking for.
I asked if anyone could provide proof beyond their anecdotal account of being able to identify, a stock cable from an upgraded one.

In other words, simply put, can any of your guys in the forum identify cables based not on appearance, but based solely on listening to music?

DarqueKnight has posted nice color pics here taken from his spectrum analyzer showing the differences in power cords. You'll have to do the leg work to find them though.

I believe this is the beginning of his multi-part series of threads. Pictures are gone though. Part one is missing too.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/71382/studies-on-residential-power-line-noise-part-2

No, you're not getting it. Look closer. This means he's 100% certain there's a difference, plus a weeee bit more!

verb · April 2018

I did get it.

mdaudioguy · April 2018

verb wrote: »

I did get it.

I demand you prove to us that you got it.

verb · April 2018

LOL!

Viking64 · April 2018

mdaudioguy wrote: »

verb wrote: »

I did get it.

I demand you prove to us that you got it.

I am verb's gynecologist and I can assure you that he got it.

gp4jesus · April 2018

Viking64 wrote: »

I bought one of those 7-gauge Pangea cords for my power amp. It wasn't that hard to manipulate and the instant improvement on the bottom end was *cough* SUBstantial.

Hmmm... Now why doesn’t that surprise me? Oh that right because I’m OCD about “Mo’ bigga, mo’ betta” on most anything that carries electrify in one form or another.

Ears!

delkal · April 2018

gmcman wrote: »

Do mains fuses count? I'm going to start a separate thread but I let my daughter listen to a few back to back tracks with the recapped REF 50's stock fuse then the Synergestic Blue and she said...oh yeah, this is more defined.

So safe bet the cords make a difference...I know mine did....it's just going to be system dependent.

Like the 50-100 feet of cheap Romex cable behind the wall. What happens inside an audio device is also ignored. You can spend many hundreds+ on the thickest power cord with the purest conductor and lowest resistance............then all that current has to go thru a ~30 ga (at best) wire of some unknown alloy (mostly tin/ lead but some fuses use iron). Even though a fuse is only 1 inch it will have relatively high resistance compared to the power cable.

Makes you wonder what your stereo would sound like if you jumped the fuse with 99.999 ultrapure crystal free copper or silver (with Cardas solder of course). Has anyone tried that? It's risky but this should make MUCH more of a difference than just an upgraded power cord.

gmcman · April 2018

Like the 50-100 feet of cheap Romex cable behind the wall.

Perhaps you were referring to that differently, correct me if I'm wrong....but it's a moot point and gets beat to death out of speculation. Doesn't matter if its 50' or 500', what happens from the receptacle to the component is what's also very important. Just because one person either doesn't hear a difference on their system, or for whatever reason, chooses to ignore a proven science...doesn't give them the right to poopoo other peoples systems and tell them what they are hearing....that's just ridiculous.

It's not just a fuse in some cases, I've upgraded my cords and I could tell the difference immediately, more so on my CDP/DAC, ie, SA 8005. So by that alone, does that mean it doesn't happen? I'm not tone deaf however I'm far from being a piano tuner...lol.

Case in point, I swapped my AC5 from my Marantz CDP, (SA 8004 at the time of this incident) one day to a stock cord to compare on other components and didn't put it back. Came back days later and noticed on a very familiar track the soundstage was somewhat closed in between the speakers and sounded like it was missing that spatial sense the SDA's give. I went back to check around and noticed the cord I didn't replace and used one of my spare AC9's and while not the same as the AC5, the dynamics somewhat returned along with the openness of the soundstage, likely due to increased clarity of the incoming signal.

So with that being said...did this not happen? It wasn't placebo I can assure you.

It's risky but this should make MUCH more of a difference that just an upgraded power cord.

In some cases it might not make any difference.

However if you look at your statement, that says it all right there. You are basing on assumption and speculation. True some fuses are likely very cheap and poor conductors, but why can a fuse get a free ride and not a power cord?

K_M · April 2018

heiney9 wrote: »

My point was with the jello analogy, why is it up to me to prove to you why something is preferred based on my own subjective interpretation. How is my preference (and proof of) somehow tied to your enjoyment or ability to discern a difference.

Probably wasn't the best based on it's face, the underlying predication stands. Why/How is proof of my experience going to somehow establish your experience? Just because I can't prove it to your liking, doesn't mean I didn't (don't) experience it.

The ultimate answer lies in trying it for yourself.

It is not up to you to prove WHY something is preferred......
....but asking if you have the ability to discern that same preference when not looking at what you are tasting/listening to.

Your experience does not impact mine at all for sure.

I have tried hard to find evidence beyond anecdotal accounts of improved sound, and found that there is very little evidence to support claims when unaware of what product is being used.
Sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

polrbehr · April 2018

I had mistakenly thought you might have "turned the corner" with regards to you
not being so stubborn/skeptical in your mindset about certain things here. But, as I expected, my offer has fallen on deaf eyes and blind ears... your new avatar pic is
an appropriate expression for how you feel about this Forum, eh?

Anyone (@TonyM ?) want to give this a try, speak up. This is a limited-time offer, folks. Like, it's over before afternoon tea.

gp4jesus · April 2018

K_M wrote: »

I have tried hard to find evidence beyond anecdotal accounts of improved sound, and found that there is very little evidence to support claims when unaware of what product is being used.

Blind testing* is the old fashioned term for what you’re driving at. I did that comparing* bass response of two Rotel amps, preferring one over the other.

Several made that* clear several times over. One member “extended an olive branch,” to loan you a cord to try in familiar surroundings. But you persist to the contrary.

I admire you “stickin’ to your guns.” Pity you come across as a troll, wasting people’s time.

K_M · April 2018

polrbehr wrote: »

your new avatar pic is
an appropriate expression for how you feel about this Forum, eh?

Nope, not at all.
I quite like some in here, and like the forum, but merely feel some sadness and frustration, maybe the same some feel for me....

mpitogo · April 2018

Seems like everyone is too busy to trolling on differences of opinion. Enjoy the music weather you hear a difference or not. Personally I spent $900 on cables and don’t hear a lick of difference in my Living Room 2.0.

Just picked up 11 new albums for RSD2018. Kid in a candy store but must leave it all behind for Mom’s birthday.

Jstas · April 2018

I don't have these problems.

Do power cables make a difference?

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