Do power cables make a difference?

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Comments

  • Tony MTony M Posts: 9,384
    polrbehr wrote: »
    I had mistakenly thought you might have "turned the corner" with regards to you
    not being so stubborn/skeptical in your mindset about certain things here. But, as I expected, my offer has fallen on deaf eyes and blind ears... your new avatar pic is
    an appropriate expression for how you feel about this Forum, eh? :p

    Anyone (@TonyM ?) want to give this a try, speak up. This is a limited-time offer, folks. Like, it's over before afternoon tea.

    I wish I had a clean environment to do a power-cord swap out. My cottage is crammed with a lot of speakers and electronics I've picked up last year from CL. I went to a yard sale today to see what kind of speakers they had. They advertised speakers in their ad and the sale was like 4 miles away. I was an hour late but there was a set of POLK monitor 30s for 40.00. I didn't want to spend that for them so I passed. I went and looked at the rest of their stuff and was leaving when I heard a girl telling a guy" You don't need any more speakers, what you have just sits on the floor now."

    I about laughed out loud but held back but still couldn't help from smileing. I said , excuse me... to their backs, and they both turned around. I asked "did I hear you say he doesn't need any more speakers?" She said, yea. I said that's what my wife has been telling me for 15 years, lol. They laughed out loud. I said I came just for the speakers they had listed in their ad. They chuckled a bit more and she then said he had just bought a pr. of speakers at another sale earlier. LOL. I said, darn, he beat me to them. LOL.

    Well, My listening room out there in the cottage is a mess. I KNOW I wouldn't be able to tell if my speakers sound improved except it the treble.

    Maybe one day in the future I'll try a new better power cord. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,068
    K_M wrote: »
    polrbehr wrote: »
    your new avatar pic is
    an appropriate expression for how you feel about this Forum, eh? :p

    Nope, not at all.
    I quite like some in here, and like the forum, but merely feel some sadness and frustration, maybe the same some feel for me....

    You don't even like yourself and I don't blame ya.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,587
    I don't know how well my Sony XR500 with an external mic will replicate what I'm hearing, but I'm going to make some recordings on two different tracks, each with a change on the preamp and amp.

    Stock cords
    Upgraded cords
    Upgraded cords with blue fuse in preamp.

    I already have the blue mains in the amp, I'm leaving that alone. Hopefully I can get this close to accurate as possible. I will say, the difference between stock cords and the upgraded cords and fuse was nothing short of shrilling.
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 709
    edited April 2018
    gmcman wrote: »
    I don't know how well my Sony XR500 with an external mic will replicate what I'm hearing, but I'm going to make some recordings on two different tracks, each with a change on the preamp and amp.

    Stock cords
    Upgraded cords
    Upgraded cords with blue fuse in preamp.

    I already have the blue mains in the amp, I'm leaving that alone. Hopefully I can get this close to accurate as possible. I will say, the difference between stock cords and the upgraded cords and fuse was nothing short of shrilling.

    When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best. :D
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,587
    delkal wrote: »
    When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best. :D

    That's the plan for sure.

    Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.


    I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.

    I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 7,512
    I always wanted to say that!
    rpf65 wrote: »
    I’m thinking you’ve reached the point where people are afraid to open your posts.

    I disabled, I am the South Carolina woman who gouged her eyes out on meth.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,567
    HOw can a power cord thread me soooo long
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 709
    gmcman wrote: »
    delkal wrote: »
    When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best. :D

    That's the plan for sure.

    Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.


    I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.

    I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here.

    Make sure you use an upgraded power cord on the recording equipment or we might not be able to hear a difference...........
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,587
    delkal wrote: »
    gmcman wrote: »
    delkal wrote: »
    When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best. :D

    That's the plan for sure.

    Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.


    I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.

    I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here.

    Make sure you use an upgraded power cord on the recording equipment or we might not be able to hear a difference...........

    Actually there has been a progression from the shoulder-mounted beta tape video cameras with the optional power cord....this one has a battery... :p
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 7,512
    rpf65 wrote: »
    I’m thinking you’ve reached the point where people are afraid to open your posts.

    I disabled, I am the South Carolina woman who gouged her eyes out on meth.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 7,512
    Is that a Gripen? If so I trust this guy.
    rpf65 wrote: »
    I’m thinking you’ve reached the point where people are afraid to open your posts.

    I disabled, I am the South Carolina woman who gouged her eyes out on meth.
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,972
    edited April 2018
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.

    Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.

    Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.

    https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/
    Magic sure, but Garth stresses that he is an engineer, and all his claims can be measured. But how? It turns out to be elegantly simple: a difference file. Play a track on a digital system with stock power cables from the wall, and digitally record the output. Then add audiophile power cables or a power conditioner, and record the same track. On a computer, align the recordings perfectly so they start and stop at exactly the same point. Flip the phase on one track and add them together. What you get is a difference file—if the two files are identical, the result would be total silence. If the power cable or conditioner is making a difference (hopefully an improvement), the difference track should be playing all the information that was masked in the stock playback.

    Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.
    I disabled signatures.
  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    msg wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.

    Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.

    Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.

    https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/
    Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.

    Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.

    The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • dolbyddolbyd Posts: 425
    afterburnt wrote: »

    I was watched that today too. He took some time on that video for sure.
    Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 7705, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, GIK room treatments

    Office-Infinity Kappa 600, Kappa Center, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 5012, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 510C 48"

    Master BR- LSi7, Signature S15 Dolby Height, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-SB3000, Marantz 5012, Emotiva XPA-5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" 800B

    Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,972
    edited April 2018
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.

    The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
    Indeed.
    This is better than numbers and measurements. It is an actual recording of the audio information that one may be missing out on - audible proof. "Elegantly simple", indeed.
    I disabled signatures.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,858
    msg wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.

    The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
    Indeed.
    This is better than numbers and measurements. It is an actual recording of the audio information that one may be missing out on - audible proof. "Elegantly simple", indeed.

    I don't mean to throw a wrench in the works, and I'll start by saying that I approve of this idea as objective proof of change (difference), but after watching the Furman YouTube video I realized that while the method shows the difference between the units being compared, it cannot distinguish which unit is making a positive change. That would take a different comparative test.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,068
    Yep, your ears.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,567
    I was the biggest opponent against cables....

    ... then I tried it.

    Terrible.

    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,819
    Joey, I remember that. When you first started posting photos of your new amps I replied you needed better power cords, but that didn’t matter to you then. LOL.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    Bingo.

    ..and Joey isn't BS'n either. He was in the same camp as a few in this thread with the exact same arguments. Which I might also add, we hear a million times over and over again. Until he tried some things for himself.

    The only proof anyone needs, is the proof your ears provide, not anyone else's .
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,858
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,567
    FestYboy wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually.

    I think it's a function of not having the equipment to measure what we are hearing.

    Just because we can't measure it, it's not the fault of the subject being measured, it's the measuring equipment's lack of resolution or completely erroneous object of measurement.

    Either way, I was the biggest anti-cable person around. I never wanted to hear one word about the whole cable thing, then one day I tried it and it was very astounding to hear what I was missing out on.

    Think about it, what would I have had to gain by spendings a chunk of my earnings/hard saved money on a bunch of cables that I did not want to believe in in the first place? But once I heard it, I understood... there are things I cannot explain via measurements or objective data.

    I was fine with my own subjective opinion, I heard it and I knew it was the next thing to upgrade in my system.

    So, the AQ Wels came in. Now, I think the differences between cables at my level is personal preference, the majority of cable shortcomings are no longer present... happy camper I have become.

    Majority of these old timers were there and witnessed the turn... it was something I never thought would happen in all my years in audio. Imagine how humbled I was to Tony, Jesse, etc... when I came back with my tail between my legs...

    ... last thing I wanted to do was give those jerks something to smile about. o:)
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    FestYboy wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually.

    Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,819
    tonyb wrote: »
    FestYboy wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually.

    Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.

    I use my eyes in my HT, and when I upgraded the power cord (stock to Shunyata Zitron Digital) on my Oppo 103 it was obvious. The detail increased, and the colors more vibrant. Avatar is a great test disk for HT changes.

    Power cords. Who would have thought?
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,567
    tonyb wrote: »
    FestYboy wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yep, your ears.

    What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually.

    Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.

    Nope, inability to measure does not discredit the object's existence.

    I agree Tonyb.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    msg wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.

    Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.

    Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.

    https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/
    Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.

    Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.

    The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.

    An interesting read for sure. But with a few Caveats.

    1. While the difference signal for sure is a great indicator of an obvious difference in comparison, and can be quite definitive, to show any difference, it does not indicate FOR SURE if the difference is truly audible to a listener.

    2. And this must be apparent to you also, but you are relying on a very uncontrolled test, as the person that designed/sold the product is providing the difference file, and one must trust that it is accurate and reliable.

    Therefore, it is QUITE interesting for sure, but simply not truly definitive proof, but simply rises to the level, of very possible.

    Now, if one allowed a 3rd party to conduct the test, under somewhat more controlled conditions, the veracity of the test would be more certain.

    Again, not doubting the test results, and they do seem good, but just kind of an evidence chain type issue with it.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 2,131
    Love these cable threads.

    Just curious; Why is it a perfectly acceptable answer, when it comes to speakers and/or electronics to let your own ears decide, and not cables, in any application?

  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 446
    @polrbehr pm sent for demo. Thanks.

    @rpf65 those pieces of equipment have a much larger role in audio reproduction, much like TVs, projectors in video reproduction.
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Marantz HD-CD1 | Denafrips Aries II | Amazon Music Ultra HD via iPad Pro
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
    Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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