Do power cables make a difference?
Comments
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I had mistakenly thought you might have "turned the corner" with regards to you
not being so stubborn/skeptical in your mindset about certain things here. But, as I expected, my offer has fallen on deaf eyes and blind ears... your new avatar pic is
an appropriate expression for how you feel about this Forum, eh?
Anyone (@TonyM ?) want to give this a try, speak up. This is a limited-time offer, folks. Like, it's over before afternoon tea.
I wish I had a clean environment to do a power-cord swap out. My cottage is crammed with a lot of speakers and electronics I've picked up last year from CL. I went to a yard sale today to see what kind of speakers they had. They advertised speakers in their ad and the sale was like 4 miles away. I was an hour late but there was a set of POLK monitor 30s for 40.00. I didn't want to spend that for them so I passed. I went and looked at the rest of their stuff and was leaving when I heard a girl telling a guy" You don't need any more speakers, what you have just sits on the floor now."
I about laughed out loud but held back but still couldn't help from smileing. I said , excuse me... to their backs, and they both turned around. I asked "did I hear you say he doesn't need any more speakers?" She said, yea. I said that's what my wife has been telling me for 15 years, lol. They laughed out loud. I said I came just for the speakers they had listed in their ad. They chuckled a bit more and she then said he had just bought a pr. of speakers at another sale earlier. LOL. I said, darn, he beat me to them. LOL.
Well, My listening room out there in the cottage is a mess. I KNOW I wouldn't be able to tell if my speakers sound improved except it the treble.
Maybe one day in the future I'll try a new better power cord.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
You don't even like yourself and I don't blame ya.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I don't know how well my Sony XR500 with an external mic will replicate what I'm hearing, but I'm going to make some recordings on two different tracks, each with a change on the preamp and amp.
Stock cords
Upgraded cords
Upgraded cords with blue fuse in preamp.
I already have the blue mains in the amp, I'm leaving that alone. Hopefully I can get this close to accurate as possible. I will say, the difference between stock cords and the upgraded cords and fuse was nothing short of shrilling. -
I don't know how well my Sony XR500 with an external mic will replicate what I'm hearing, but I'm going to make some recordings on two different tracks, each with a change on the preamp and amp.
Stock cords
Upgraded cords
Upgraded cords with blue fuse in preamp.
I already have the blue mains in the amp, I'm leaving that alone. Hopefully I can get this close to accurate as possible. I will say, the difference between stock cords and the upgraded cords and fuse was nothing short of shrilling.
When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best.
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When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best.
That's the plan for sure.
Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.
I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.
I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here. -
What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Didn't Mommy and Daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?
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I always wanted to say that!
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HOw can a power cord thread me soooo longMagico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best.
That's the plan for sure.
Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.
I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.
I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here.
Make sure you use an upgraded power cord on the recording equipment or we might not be able to hear a difference........... -
When you are making the recording post a video of it. We will tell you which sounds best.
That's the plan for sure.
Any suggestions on how to copy the audio from the video clip in somewhat of a lossless format? I can hear the difference in my Vegas software but in terms of saving and creating a file I'm not well versed in this area.
I tried a few times and the compression kills it, especially going to youtube.
I'd be happy to send the original file to someone if I don't have the means here.
Make sure you use an upgraded power cord on the recording equipment or we might not be able to hear a difference...........
Actually there has been a progression from the shoulder-mounted beta tape video cameras with the optional power cord....this one has a battery... -
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Is that a Gripen? If so I trust this guy.
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I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.
Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.
Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/Magic sure, but Garth stresses that he is an engineer, and all his claims can be measured. But how? It turns out to be elegantly simple: a difference file. Play a track on a digital system with stock power cables from the wall, and digitally record the output. Then add audiophile power cables or a power conditioner, and record the same track. On a computer, align the recordings perfectly so they start and stop at exactly the same point. Flip the phase on one track and add them together. What you get is a difference file—if the two files are identical, the result would be total silence. If the power cable or conditioner is making a difference (hopefully an improvement), the difference track should be playing all the information that was masked in the stock playback.
Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.I disabled signatures. -
I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.
Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.
Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.
Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.
The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 8805A, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra XLR IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, Gik room treatments
Office- Legend L600, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 7704, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 55" 800B, Gik room treatment
Master BR- Signature ES60, Signature S35 Center, Signature S15 Dolby Height, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-SB4000, Marantz 5012, Emotiva XPA5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" OLED
Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3 -
Indeed.Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.
The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
This is better than numbers and measurements. It is an actual recording of the audio information that one may be missing out on - audible proof. "Elegantly simple", indeed.I disabled signatures. -
Let's get real here...What's in the box
Speakers come with those brass/whatever jumpers
Audio video come with those R/W/Y RCA's etc
All your stuff comes with a sub par who knows where from pwr cord
Your house power
Your house plugs
Your audio is plugged into same circuits as wthever in the room
^^^ sharing florescent, HVAC, hair dryers, other device wall wart noise etc
Sub par tubes
Vibrations
When you start improving each of these scenario's with better cables and noise reduction, better tubes, better components, better isolation for your TT's and CD spinners etc.... you will improve your sound a little at time to be better all around
Doesn't have to cost a million $$$
1+1+1++1+1+1+1% = better performance2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Indeed.Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.
The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
This is better than numbers and measurements. It is an actual recording of the audio information that one may be missing out on - audible proof. "Elegantly simple", indeed.
I don't mean to throw a wrench in the works, and I'll start by saying that I approve of this idea as objective proof of change (difference), but after watching the Furman YouTube video I realized that while the method shows the difference between the units being compared, it cannot distinguish which unit is making a positive change. That would take a different comparative test. -
Yep, your ears.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I was the biggest opponent against cables....
... then I tried it.
Terrible.
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Joey, I remember that. When you first started posting photos of your new amps I replied you needed better power cords, but that didn’t matter to you then. LOL.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Yep, your ears.
Bingo.
..and Joey isn't BS'n either. He was in the same camp as a few in this thread with the exact same arguments. Which I might also add, we hear a million times over and over again. Until he tried some things for himself.
The only proof anyone needs, is the proof your ears provide, not anyone else's .HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yep, your ears.
What I'm getting at is there's a way to show which cable is doing what and show it visually. -
I think it's a function of not having the equipment to measure what we are hearing.
Just because we can't measure it, it's not the fault of the subject being measured, it's the measuring equipment's lack of resolution or completely erroneous object of measurement.
Either way, I was the biggest anti-cable person around. I never wanted to hear one word about the whole cable thing, then one day I tried it and it was very astounding to hear what I was missing out on.
Think about it, what would I have had to gain by spendings a chunk of my earnings/hard saved money on a bunch of cables that I did not want to believe in in the first place? But once I heard it, I understood... there are things I cannot explain via measurements or objective data.
I was fine with my own subjective opinion, I heard it and I knew it was the next thing to upgrade in my system.
So, the AQ Wels came in. Now, I think the differences between cables at my level is personal preference, the majority of cable shortcomings are no longer present... happy camper I have become.
Majority of these old timers were there and witnessed the turn... it was something I never thought would happen in all my years in audio. Imagine how humbled I was to Tony, Jesse, etc... when I came back with my tail between my legs...
... last thing I wanted to do was give those jerks something to smile about.
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.
I use my eyes in my HT, and when I upgraded the power cord (stock to Shunyata Zitron Digital) on my Oppo 103 it was obvious. The detail increased, and the colors more vibrant. Avatar is a great test disk for HT changes.
Power cords. Who would have thought?Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Not really, I know of not a single person who listens with their eyes. I also know of no visual test, measurement, that can tell me about the soundstage, imaging, decay of notes, tone or prat. Unless they came up with one I'm not aware of.
Nope, inability to measure does not discredit the object's existence.
I agree Tonyb.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.
Just skimming this thread quickly while I wait for my hair to dry, being Saturday evening an' all.
Mikey, your post caught my attention, and I went in search of this interview. I think this may be it linked below. This is an interesting method to determine a component design's audible effect, in this case, the component being a cable. It takes numbers out of the discussion altogether, and presents the result simply, and in a way that is irrefutable, one way or the other, blind tested or not.
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-products/Garth sent me two difference tracks, one from a Niagara 7000 and one from Power Conditioner X, retailing at $5000. The tracks were created about a year ago at Bernie Grundman Mastering, and compared the Niagara 7000 to a number of competing conditioners. I expected to hear a collection of unidentifiable blips and clicks—random leading edges and low-level details. Instead, I heard music. It's metallic and thin sure, and there's little low frequency information, but you can identify the track; here, the opening bars of "Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho " from Friday Night in San Francisco by Paco de Lucía, John McLaughlin, and Al Di Meola. You can hear the cheers and clapping, and clearly identify the guitars and follow the melody. I was startled, because that's a lot of information to lose. Power Conditioner X's difference file was a lot quieter and even went silent for a few moments, showing it was doing less work than the Niagara.
Thank you! The anti cable guys always want “proof” or some sort of evidence/measurements. There are a ton of interviews online with Garth, and you tube videos. This guy isn’t afraid to provide actual eveidence to prove the improvements with power.
The cable naysayers want proof, you provide it, they ignore it, then demand you to be able to pick out a cable during a blind test. Oh well. Anyone who doesn’t believe cables needs to attend a Nordost cable demonstration, it’s eye opening that’s for sure.
An interesting read for sure. But with a few Caveats.
1. While the difference signal for sure is a great indicator of an obvious difference in comparison, and can be quite definitive, to show any difference, it does not indicate FOR SURE if the difference is truly audible to a listener.
2. And this must be apparent to you also, but you are relying on a very uncontrolled test, as the person that designed/sold the product is providing the difference file, and one must trust that it is accurate and reliable.
Therefore, it is QUITE interesting for sure, but simply not truly definitive proof, but simply rises to the level, of very possible.
Now, if one allowed a 3rd party to conduct the test, under somewhat more controlled conditions, the veracity of the test would be more certain.
Again, not doubting the test results, and they do seem good, but just kind of an evidence chain type issue with it.
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Love these cable threads.
Just curious; Why is it a perfectly acceptable answer, when it comes to speakers and/or electronics to let your own ears decide, and not cables, in any application?
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@polrbehr pm sent for demo. Thanks.
@rpf65 those pieces of equipment have a much larger role in audio reproduction, much like TVs, projectors in video reproduction.Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
Media Room HT-7.2.4/11.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x4], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV | JVC RS2100
Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X, DSW microPRO3000 | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570 (Treble) | Rotel RB-1590 (Bass) | Marantz HD-CD1
Office-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
Daughter's Bedroom 1-2.0 TBD Martin Logan Forte
Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Martin Logan Forte
Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080 | TV
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
https://youtu.be/FwK4K0fBBhU
