"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
I eat grape jello and cherry jello. I like both, but grape is more satisfying to me and my tastes.
K_M comes along and asks me to prove to her grape tastes better, she can't just rely on my individual tastes as a reference point. I can't prove to her that grape will taste better to her? How would I do that?
On top of it, she's unwilling to taste grape for herself, because I can't prove to her that grape tastes better to me. Like somehow if I can prove grape tastes better to me, then she will try grape for herself.
Sounds pretty illogical to predicate whether something will align with your likes and dislikes, abilities, shortcomings, etc based on someone else's interpretation, impressions, likes, dislikes, abilities, cognitive abilities, etc.
It's a very irrational argument, and has no answer. And deserves no attention. Yet here we are trying to make an illogical premise logical. Spock would be highly disappointed.
H9
That analogy does not work at all
We are not talking about agreeing on a flavor.
We are talking about, whether an individual can actually identify a cable based on sound alone, and not sight. (knowing what is being used)
I eat grape jello and cherry jello. I like both, but grape is more satisfying to me and my tastes.
K_M comes along and asks me to prove to her grape tastes better, she can't just rely on my individual tastes as a reference point. I can't prove to her that grape will taste better to her? How would I do that?
On top of it, she's unwilling to taste grape for herself, because I can't prove to her that grape tastes better to me. Like somehow if I can prove grape tastes better to me, then she will try grape for herself.
Sounds pretty illogical to predicate whether something will align with your likes and dislikes, abilities, shortcomings, etc based on someone else's interpretation, impressions, likes, dislikes, abilities, cognitive abilities, etc.
It's a very irrational argument, and has no answer. And deserves no attention. Yet here we are trying to make an illogical premise logical. Spock would be highly disappointed.
H9
That analogy does not work at all
We are not talking about agreeing on a flavor.
We are talking about, whether an individual can actually identify a cable based on sound alone, and not sight. (knowing what is being used)
That was answered.
YES
You missed it entirely "big face palm"...............sheesh, density is not a becoming attribute.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
I eat grape jello and cherry jello. I like both, but grape is more satisfying to me and my tastes.
K_M comes along and asks me to prove to her grape tastes better, she can't just rely on my individual tastes as a reference point. I can't prove to her that grape will taste better to her? How would I do that?
On top of it, she's unwilling to taste grape for herself, because I can't prove to her that grape tastes better to me. Like somehow if I can prove grape tastes better to me, then she will try grape for herself.
Sounds pretty illogical to predicate whether something will align with your likes and dislikes, abilities, shortcomings, etc based on someone else's interpretation, impressions, likes, dislikes, abilities, cognitive abilities, etc.
It's a very irrational argument, and has no answer. And deserves no attention. Yet here we are trying to make an illogical premise logical. Spock would be highly disappointed.
H9
That analogy does not work at all
We are not talking about agreeing on a flavor.
We are talking about, whether an individual can actually identify a cable based on sound alone, and not sight. (knowing what is being used)
You need to start paying rent. Yeah the analogy works. I hate Jello! You hate cables. Just say it and leave.
Satan I am yours, I am buying an ipad! My frigging phone don't do this revision garbage!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Ya if it was only that simple.
That does nothing to explain guys hearing big differences, when aware of the cable brand, but not being able to identify them when not aware.
I am at a loss to understand why someone must be able to explain a subjective feeling to someone else. But having said that, I have a 2m Signal Cable Magic Power cable I would be willing to live without for awhile, if you PM me your info I'll send it to you to evaluate, on my dime. It is by no means a high end cable as cables go, so try it, and return it to me in two weeks in the same condition (you pay for return shipping, fair enough?). You can choose to write up a report on your findings, or not; I don't care one way or the other, but at least you'll know if you heard any difference.
Worse comes to worst, I figure if you keep it and disappear from the Forum for good, it will be money well spent, though I am sure there will be enough people willing to kick in to cover my loss for doing the community such a beneficial service... j/k
So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
Ya if it was only that simple.
That does nothing to explain guys hearing big differences, when aware of the cable brand, but not being able to identify them when not aware.
I am at a loss to understand why someone must be able to explain a subjective feeling to someone else. But having said that, I have a 2m Signal Cable Magic Power cable I would be willing to live without for awhile, if you PM me your info I'll send it to you to evaluate, on my dime. It is by no means a high end cable as cables go, so try it, and return it to me in two weeks in the same condition (you pay for return shipping, fair enough?). You can choose to write up a report on your findings, or not; I don't care one way or the other, but at least you'll know if you heard any difference.
Worse comes to worst, I figure if you keep it and disappear from the Forum for good, it will be money well spent, though I am sure there will be enough people willing to kick in to cover my loss for doing the community such a beneficial service... j/k
This type of person has no intention of trying anything for themselves. They aren't really interested in the outcome. It's the contrarian nature of someone like K_M to constantly parrot the same circular logic about audio. She has her mind already made up and there is no chance of changing it.
It's a great offer, but I predict some excuses will be posted, just like other times similar offers were made. If excuses aren't made your offer will be ignored or she will simply stop posting in this thread and wait for the next one. That's her modus operandi.
Her end game is NOT to ever find out for herself, because she's already made up her mind. She'd rather hold her perceived superiority over those of us who actually have an open mind and can and do discern differences in gear/cables/tubes, etc.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
This is all Clipdat's fault. He installed a Shunyata Venom power cable on his CD player, and was amazed at the improvement he heard. Just wait until this new cable settles into its new home, and he puts the cables on his other gear. Then he will say he really is amazed at the improvement, and others will say he is just imagining the improvement.
Can't wait until I get home tonight to listen to some imaginary improvements.
Ya if it was only that simple.
That does nothing to explain guys hearing big differences, when aware of the cable brand, but not being able to identify them when not aware.
If you have a nice room space to hear something if it happens.
If I had a spacious area in front of my stereo, I would, since I can afford it now, buy that cord Drew was suggesting for a 30 day trial. But I have the speakers and semi-high-end gear to try it with. Many pieces as a matter of fact. Maybe one day but I'm not dying if I don't get one either.
Drew has been the forums' experimental member for a while now. He's checking out a new rack this weekend maybe too.
Take him up on his offer. I want to know for my interest more than anything else. Maybe it will or a placebo effect or it won't change the sound. I have never done a power cord change out. But I know speaker wire does change sound from my speakers. The tweeters become brighter or duller. I have 2 thick wires. The Monster brand...duller. The A/R brand...brighter.
But power cords...No experience yet.
Life is short, come on, let him mail you the cord. It can't cost much. PLEASE.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
My point was with the jello analogy, why is it up to me to prove to you why something is preferred based on my own subjective interpretation. How is my preference (and proof of) somehow tied to your enjoyment or ability to discern a difference.
Probably wasn't the best based on it's face, the underlying predication stands. Why/How is proof of my experience going to somehow establish your experience? Just because I can't prove it to your liking, doesn't mean I didn't (don't) experience it.
The ultimate answer lies in trying it for yourself.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Jello pudding pops. Jello is a brand. It most certainly was J-E-L-L-O.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Otherwise known as gelatin. Jell-O or Jello is a brand
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Now add Vodka and chill................that's how I like my Jell-O. In a Dixie cup w/Vodka. You know Summer is here when people break out the Jell-O shots!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
fun Jello/Jell-O/gelatin fact: One cannot -- well, one shouldn't -- put fresh pineapple into Jell-O; it won't gel. Pineapple contains a thiol protease called bromelain which will digest the gelatin.
Canned pineapple is OK, because the canning process inactivates the bromelain.
Comments
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
I am about ready to smash this tablet
That analogy does not work at all
We are not talking about agreeing on a flavor.
We are talking about, whether an individual can actually identify a cable based on sound alone, and not sight. (knowing what is being used)
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
That was answered.
YES
You missed it entirely "big face palm"...............sheesh, density is not a becoming attribute.
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
You need to start paying rent. Yeah the analogy works. I hate Jello! You hate cables. Just say it and leave.
Satan I am yours, I am buying an ipad! My frigging phone don't do this revision garbage!
To be a pot stirring troll.
Ding, ding, ding!!!!!
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
I am at a loss to understand why someone must be able to explain a subjective feeling to someone else. But having said that, I have a 2m Signal Cable Magic Power cable I would be willing to live without for awhile, if you PM me your info I'll send it to you to evaluate, on my dime. It is by no means a high end cable as cables go, so try it, and return it to me in two weeks in the same condition (you pay for return shipping, fair enough?). You can choose to write up a report on your findings, or not; I don't care one way or the other, but at least you'll know if you heard any difference.
Worse comes to worst, I figure if you keep it and disappear from the Forum for good, it will be money well spent, though I am sure there will be enough people willing to kick in to cover my loss for doing the community such a beneficial service... j/k
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
I went for Chinese the other night, and I received complementary jello cubes for desert.
I forgot how good jello was.
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
This type of person has no intention of trying anything for themselves. They aren't really interested in the outcome. It's the contrarian nature of someone like K_M to constantly parrot the same circular logic about audio. She has her mind already made up and there is no chance of changing it.
It's a great offer, but I predict some excuses will be posted, just like other times similar offers were made. If excuses aren't made your offer will be ignored or she will simply stop posting in this thread and wait for the next one. That's her modus operandi.
Her end game is NOT to ever find out for herself, because she's already made up her mind. She'd rather hold her perceived superiority over those of us who actually have an open mind and can and do discern differences in gear/cables/tubes, etc.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
That explains everything
Kelly give it a rest.
If you have a nice room space to hear something if it happens.
If I had a spacious area in front of my stereo, I would, since I can afford it now, buy that cord Drew was suggesting for a 30 day trial. But I have the speakers and semi-high-end gear to try it with. Many pieces as a matter of fact. Maybe one day but I'm not dying if I don't get one either.
Drew has been the forums' experimental member for a while now. He's checking out a new rack this weekend maybe too.
Take him up on his offer. I want to know for my interest more than anything else. Maybe it will or a placebo effect or it won't change the sound. I have never done a power cord change out. But I know speaker wire does change sound from my speakers. The tweeters become brighter or duller. I have 2 thick wires. The Monster brand...duller. The A/R brand...brighter.
But power cords...No experience yet.
Life is short, come on, let him mail you the cord. It can't cost much. PLEASE.
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Probably wasn't the best based on it's face, the underlying predication stands. Why/How is proof of my experience going to somehow establish your experience? Just because I can't prove it to your liking, doesn't mean I didn't (don't) experience it.
The ultimate answer lies in trying it for yourself.
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
I have no idea why I typed "jelly" and not "Jell-O". Maybe some subsconscious anti-Cosby bias?
With Cosby it was pudding............not jello
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
I must be a Jello-head... umm, I mean, a puddinghead.
It does have a dash, but it's all caps. Derp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jell-O
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
...
That was a pretty generous offer back there, K_M, one that you should take up on.
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
Now add Vodka and chill................that's how I like my Jell-O. In a Dixie cup w/Vodka. You know Summer is here when people break out the Jell-O shots!
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
bromelain which will digest the gelatin.
Canned pineapple is OK, because the canning process inactivates the bromelain.
Office-Infinity Kappa 600, Kappa Center, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 5012, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 510C 48"
Master BR- LSi7, LSiC, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-PC 2000, Marantz 7704, Emotiva XPA-5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" 800B
Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3
Maybe you remember the "legal pressure" Kraft Foods applied on the band Green Jellÿ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Jellÿ
Dig the way I stole.....errr.....copied and pasted the umlaut from my Wiki link. HAHAHA