An important message from the Management

wayne3burk

dorokusai wrote: »

Just FYI, no one is paid to moderate here aside from Patrick C.

My resume is in the mail, I'm cheap but not easy.

Serendipity

+1

That's why I don't read certain threads. If you don't respond, the thread will die and that's the end of it. Or don't even make it possible to post certain types of threads. Anything with controversial topics will be removed. Then there won't be bullying, bashing, piling on, etc.

fj_az

I have to admit I didn't read all the posts. I'm a noob here joined last week I believe. I can't believe people getting bashed or bullied enough here on a forum from people they don't even know will probably ever see in their lifetimes. Then turn around and ditch polk. What is the world coming to? As for contributing an answer I have not one idea really. But I will say that in my less than two weeks here on the forum it is very useful and I would hate to see it go.

Serendipity

fj_az wrote: »

I will say that in my less than two weeks here on the forum it is very useful and I would hate to see it go.

I too think that the forum is a wonderful place and a great source of information. I've learned a lot from you guys and it is very appreciated. I hope that it should stay and I would hate to see it go.

Face

Those asking for additional forums and a plethora of new rules, be careful what you wish for. I've seen other boards go this route and it will dilute much of the "close knit" community feel.

But if a little tightening of the belt is what's needed to keep this place going, so be it.

Serendipity

Face wrote: »

But if a little tightening of the belt is what's needed to keep this place going, so be it.

Just a little.

shawn474

Here's my personal opinion. This forum is the best place of its kind on the internet. I come here multiple times a day to research, shop, talk, comment, etc. Some people I like, others I don't. Some people I agree with, some I don't. Sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me, sometimes I don't. I am sure I am on some people's ignore list. Nobody has made it to mine yet.

All that said, I see the only simple solution (and I think it needs to be simple because if Al / Polk feel there is too much involved to change the way they want, they may as well just pull the plug), is to establish a new set of specific rules (or keep them the way they are now). If ANYONE posts outside of those rules, first time is a warning. Second time is a week ban. Third time a month and fourth time is permanent. We are all going to lose our tempers or be emotional on certain topics. But with the knowledge that there are consequences for EVERYONE, maybe we can all just learn to get along and accept that there are other veiwpoints and RESPECT each other-new or old, novice or expert, casual listener or hardcore enthusiast, etc.

Shawn

Serendipity

I would like to say the following -

Polk Audio is a GREAT forum and I really enjoy being a part of it! I've learned so many things about audio and love Polk Audio speakers.

Let's hope that we can keep this place going!

Toolfan66

If the Polk fourm shut down I would have to go back to Internet ****,and I'm not sure my heart could take the abuse...

nadams

Keep in mind, everyone, that internet forums as a whole tend to swell in ranks and posts during the winter. Along with that, comes a lot more arguements, as people spend way more time on the internet when the weather sucks outside, than when it gets nice and outdoor activities can take place. I think a lot of people here are suffereing from cabin fever and a bit of pent-up energy. No, it won't go away totally when it gets warm, but I've just noticed in the past that Winter tends to be the worst season for forums!

thsmith

No matter what I hope CP is not shut down. You are not going to please everyone so I am in for whatever keeps this site alive.

I have been goated a few times on several sites and have been on the Internet long enough to ignore.

Al, you have my support just please do not shut this site down. If there is something I can do please let me know.

I do wish the spammers could be blocked or at least more difficult for them to sell credit card numbers and such.

KrazyMofo24

I hope everything gets worked out this is a great forum. I feel this forum is great for marketing. I know I always consider Polk when I'm in the market for home or car audio more so then prior of joining this forum. I agree that more moderation would help its much better than just shutting it down.

Well from what I get from his message is that he's really not asking for ways to improve or change the forum, he's asking us to stop the name calling, talking down to, foul language, etc.

As far as adding more sections to the forum, the current set up is now is how it's been since I've joined. I like it, but I don't see how it could hurt much by adding a few more I feel this place is a great source of information, a lot of knowledgeable people, and it's very active so I could see some benefits of having a section divided for other common non audio categories.

Demiurge

KrazyMofo24 wrote: »

Well from what I get from his message is that he's really not asking for ways to improve or change the forum, he's asking us to stop the name calling, talking down to, foul language, etc.

Sure is.

Maybe you have some concrete ideas. If so, I want to hear them now. If not, stay tuned. Change is coming.

superjunior

Face wrote: »

Those asking for additional forums and a plethora of new rules, be careful what you wish for. I've seen other boards go this route and it will dilute much of the "close knit" community feel.

+1000^^^ I don't think anyone wants that.

cstmar01

I would be very sadden if the club would get closed. I am still fairly new to everything and enjoy the comments and suggestions that I can get from the members on the different products as well as non polk advice such as amps ect. I find that a lot of members are very helpful and are willing to give great advice, and are just fun to talk to and get help from.
That said I do get highly annoyed with some people that tend to post opinions in cable threads (just an example there are others) but seem to be there more to argue with someone they don't agree with or just call it stupid and then continue to fight and not really help the OP or have a point just to say something is stupid. This to me, is the activity that does need to stop as its just plain, 1 not helpful and 2 makes people get into fights that are not needed.
I think that either a warning system needs to be put in place to give public warnings or that more mods need to be established to help control these types of fights as they can pop up at any time and can take a little while to get taken care of.
I think Mark does a GREAT job being a mod and feel bad at times that he works so hard and always has more to do. I think adding more would just be benaficial to all and would help Mark out.
I am one that does tend to get annoyed by those that just come in and rush to 25 posts to sell something. Also get annoyed by those that pull up 2 year old threads and ask to buy something or just come on here to get a good deal, but not understand why its being offered for less. I do think making it private would help as increasing the amount of time one has to be a member to sell, ect.
All in all I would be sad to see it go, but if it needs to be done, then I understand the position of the company and will continue to buy their products regardless.

KrazyMofo24

Demiurge wrote: »

Sure is.

Nice catch.

*Note to self: Pay more attention.

Serendipity

We need more positive threads.

Hillbilly61

nadams wrote: »

Keep in mind, everyone, that internet forums as a whole tend to swell in ranks and posts during the winter. Along with that, comes a lot more arguements, as people spend way more time on the internet when the weather sucks outside, than when it gets nice and outdoor activities can take place. I think a lot of people here are suffereing from cabin fever and a bit of pent-up energy. No, it won't go away totally when it gets warm, but I've just noticed in the past that Winter tends to be the worst season for forums!

Your points are well taken Nad, but I don't think it has anything to do with the season ... maybe, some folks spending way too much time on line, but that's another thing.... I checked out of this place late last summer as it had gotten very old seeing threads turn into flame wars for the fact that some folks cannot grasp the concept of "I respectfully disagree" and then move on (we all do it a work or would soon be unemployed) and other folk who must get the last word in ... another sign of an impending flame war.

After reading all of these posts, it is suggested that the proposed suspension rules be applied to both parties. No sides taken. It takes two to have a fight & behave inappropriately. A troll post from an isolated individual is easily identifiable and can be dealt with accordingly.

From what I have seen, newbie trolls are usually quickly identified and eliminated in some way shape or form. The problem within this forum lay with the regular posters who have been around here a while, including those with high post counts and years of membership.

Probably due to the lack of moderators, it has been observed that threads are not shut down soon enough and I have never seen a post deleted by a mod. I think there are plenty of well behaving regulars within this forum who would volunteer to mod, if not for the whole forum, then for specific boards.

As a final suggestion it would also be beneficial to put a time limit on a thread's inactivity. Right now, I could reach back to the beginning and find some sort of flame war and resurrect it by posting anew. This has been seen.

About the irritation of newbies running up the 25 post count to sell, it is suggested to add, say, a 45 day window of membership. That would stop those who simply wish to use this forum as some sort of c'list.

bsoko2

The thing is to be "respectful" to one another with all discussion on the forum.

Bill

madmax

inspiredsports wrote: »

"Club Polk is the best forum on the Internet."

Agreed.

madmax

jacob.simpson

I am shocked by this, being said that this was required some time back itself,
sincerely in the last 2 years i have seen some threads and posts which were not required or almost abusive and the trend was more in the upward than stagnant or decremental,
But i cannot see this PF being closed down, that will be one of the saddest day, Hope everthing works out good.
One small suggestion is to have couple of more moderators to regulate and before one registers each point of rules should have 'I accept feature' or a puzzle to each rule with a choose from 2 option and click the right one, this will be like a puzzle game but get the newbies to read all the rules,
But for the existing members an email from Admin with all the rules and guidelines once in a year.....
After looooong time the weather is beautiful hope after all these cold and bad weather in PF turns out like Spring and remains the same.:D

gdb

I don't feel that a voluminous post count transforms anyone to a "Guru","Master" or "ologist" of anything.... except keyboarding activity. I'd just like to request that if it does all come crashing down, that the forum be "left up" as a read only library, so that the past technical posts can be accessed as reference material.:) Thanks

Serendipity

Zero wrote: »

This one is easy... Add 3 or 4 new moderators. The only challenge at this point would be finding those who have a reputation of being even keeled, are not prone to emotional outbursts, have a clean track record, and so on and so forth.

Agreed.

Serendipity

DarqueKnight

kab wrote: »

Maybe you have some concrete ideas. If so, I want to hear them now. If not, stay tuned. Change is coming.

Al,

I communicated some thoughts and suggestions to you last week, one of which was that moderators be properly labeled as such.

Several members have mentioned more and effective moderation. I would like to speak more about that.

An Internet forum, like any public gathering place, must have some procedures in place to deal with people who get "out of place". Armed security is not required at a public library, but people know that if they get out of place, the police are just a phone call away. Likewise, I do not think that heavy handed moderation is required here. Except for those few persons who come here specifically to start trouble, most of us would respond respectfully and appropriately to "courteous correction" from a properly identified moderator. Heated debates can still occur...as long as they remain civil and respectful. Lawyers engage in heated debates in courtrooms without resorting to name calling and threats. Of course, in a courtroom environment, the moderator (the judge) can have offensive lawyers thrown in jail.

It has been mentioned that, perhaps a few members should be given moderator authority. I must say, that has already been tried with mixed results. Your initial statement in this thread was precipitated by a situation where a long time member, who now has moderator authority, misused that authority to "settle" some long-running reciprocal animosity with another member. This same moderator has engaged in repeated verbal abuse toward members (see attached for examples). If Polk management says they want a civil forum environment, then they can't have a moderator going around "fanning the flames". While I respect Mark's long time contributions to the forum in particular and to audio in general, his moderator service has been tarnished by his habit of "getting down and dirty" and "going toe-to-toe" with the membership. This has negatively impacted morale and has caused people inside and outside the forum to question Polk management's integrity for allowing this to go on. We should all be aware that Polk is an international company and this forum is read by people all over the world.

We should all consider what a "moderator" does. A moderator moderates, i.e. mediates, arbitrates, and makes sure that an activity or process stays within certain bounds. As an authority figure, a moderator must "stay above the fray" and must not actively participate in the activity in which he or she moderates. Examples of proper moderation are nightclub security not dancing with or conversing with patrons, police officers not socially interacting with citizens at an event for which they are on duty and political debate moderators not participating in the debate...except to enforce rules. If people walk into a nightclub and see all the security staff out on the dance floor, it gives the impression that there really is no security enforcement and "anything goes". How much credibility would a political debate have if the moderator engaged in arguments with the debaters?

Another thing to consider is that effective moderation requires a certain skill set and a certain temperament. One is no good without the other. If someone is prone to getting easily riled up by other's words, then dealing with the public in an authoritative capacity is not the right place for such an person because their temper and patience will be tested time and time again. Justin seemed to be able to diffuse "situations" with a few words. Sometimes he would just lock a thread and ask members to move on. I think that if we had a few moderators of this sort, it would lay the framework for a civil forum environment.

I would not want to be a moderator because I enjoy interacting with other members too much to give that up. Those qualified members who are interested in moderator authority should be made to realize that they are expected to "stay in the background" and only intervene when necessary. I expect that, like me, most members would not want to pay this price for moderator authority.

To summarize:

1. Any public gathering place must be actively and effectively managed. Install a few moderators who are have the temperament and proper training for dealing with the public and make sure they are properly labeled as moderators.

2. Even if a hundred moderators were available, they could not be everywhere at once. Some forums have installed "mood watch" software that prevents certain words or word combinations from being posted and/or certain keywords trigger a "moderation review" and the post is not published until it has been reviewed. For example, the software could be set to refer any post with the word "Emotiva" or "cable" to moderation review. Of course, such software can easily be circumvented by writing "c-a-b-l-e" rather than "cable", but an individual who does so identifies themselves as someone who is trying to circumvent forum rules and they should be dealt with accordingly.

==========================

Ours is one of the better and more informative audio forums around. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be here. The forum can be made even better by the implementation of a few of the "best practices" that other successful forums use for member management.

shack

I personally think Mark has done an excellent job as moderator. I too have contacted Al in the past to make him aware of my opinion on the subject.

Serendipity

DarqueKnight -

I get an error message "The file is damaged and could not be repaired." Has anyone else been able to view the PDF files properly?

concealer404

It works for me, and to an extent, i agree.

A moderator doesn't necessarily have to remove themselves from the discussions, but definitely does need to rise above and be held to the same if not a higher standard. Moderators can have fun just like the rest of us. But it has to be the clean fun, and remain fun.

DarqueKnight

Serendipity,

You may need to update your Adobe Reader software.

Serendipity

DarqueKnight wrote: »

You may need to update your Adobe Reader software.

Trying that right now. And it's taking a very long time.

jimbo1421

I would like to see Polk Audio enforce the standards of civility that they keep in their own working environment. That PA has not done so already reflects badly on the company, to the point that I am reluctant to recommend Polk speakers to my friends. The forum here is too much of an embarrassment. By comparison, check out Vinyl Engine (http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/index.php). I have yet to encounter a flame war going on there.

There is one big structural difference between Vinyl Engine and Club Polk: there is no New Posts button. The forum just displays its categories. I just go to the areas that I am interested in and provocative threads are not pushed in my face, daring me to click on them just to see what kind of foolishness they contain. So my advice to Al would be to get rid of the New Posts button. I'll bet that would have a calming effect.

Jim