An important message from the Management

shadowofnight

Consider this forum your workplace or local bar....or even the grocery store...basically anywhere people gather publicly.

If everyone did that it would be fine.

If you wouldnt say what you wanted to type here in a thread to somebody face to face...for whatever repercussion...be it you would get fired...get charged with sexual harassment...or even get your **** beat...dont say it here.

This has been an age old problem ( Well since the internet sprung up ) with people typing behind keyboards...there is that buffer zone of protection ...just like some drivers...the little old lady that teaches sunday school who flips every body off ...cuts em off...and blows her horn at everybody...while she is behind the wheel.

You guys can talk about new sections of the forum...new requirements for newbies to sell.....etc None of it will work...the only thing that works is knowing that if you break the rules...that there will be a price to pay.


Its the way law has worked since the dawn of time, make the punishment stiff enough ...and people think twice about doing the crime.


I mean look at it like this...a newbie signs up...screen name joelikestoknit234 ,
says expensive cables is too much money spent for little gain...he likes his radio shack cables...nothing derogatory...just his honest opinion....in the next 7 posts he gets responses of " Douchbag "...etc....you have all seen it time and again.

You wouldnt walk up to joelikestoknit234 in radio shack and call him a douchbag...you dont even know who he is in the forum ...and in radio shack you dont know who he is either...but you get a visual...something you dont get here on the forum. I bring up kniting because I knew a joe while fighting that used to knit...I kid you not

I could call him a sissy for knitting, but if polkmaster67534 with 7,000 posts walked up to him in radio shack and looked him in the eye and called him a douchbag...well...it just wouldnt happen.


Thats my simple point , make an attempt to treat people with the same respect on the forum as you would in a face to face encounter...newbie or master....that will take you far.

Everybody I have met from this forum in person , either face to face or in a group setting ..have been really cool people....and thats all you hear from everybody else who have done the same with their own FTF's and group gatherings.....lets not ruin a good thing here people.

And yes... people face to face have some humor in conversations, lets also not make this a boring sterile environment either...some of you owe me keyboards.


John

mhmacw

concealer404 wrote: »

Post count isn't going to change personalities or what people post, though.

you are correct conceler404. what it will do is lessen the following by those that are new and dont know who to take seriously. by zeroing out the post count you in essence take the "im right no matter what i say" out of the equation. this would cause people to either be polite or be ignored by the incoming members. of course the existing members would stillknow who they are but then the true colors would shine. when trouble makers and know it alls are ignored, they push and by pushing they woud be easier to pick out and excuse from the club.

concealer404

cfrizz wrote: »

And WHO decides who is a troll? This is the label anyone gets who dares to mention Emotiva. Then a certain few jump all over them rather than simply ignore the whole thread.

I really don't think it's that bad. As a matter of fact, there's two threads going on right now that have no angst or anything in them, even though they have the word Emotiva mentioned. I don't know how many times we all have to point out that it's not the brand that's an issue.

If the thread is ignored, then the person who asked the original question is being disserviced.

But i agree, people should be able to share their opinions and move on. But that also applies for everyone.

concealer404

mhmacw wrote: »

you are correct conceler404. what it will do is lessen the following by those that are new and dont know who to take seriously. by zeroing out the post count you in essence take the "im right no matter what i say" out of the equation. this would cause people to either be polite or be ignored by the incoming members. of course the existing members would stillknow who they are but then the true colors would shine. when trouble makers and know it alls are ignored, they push and by pushing they woud be easier to pick out and excuse from the club.

I still fail to see how a post count covers up true colors. It's a number. It doesn't matter. Just because some people might have a high post count doesn't mean that they think they're better. Any moron can post on the internet. Look at me, for instance.

The post count only matters to the wrong people. Get my drift?

Toolfan66

Well Said!!! :cool:

shadowofnight wrote: »

Consider this forum your workplace or local bar....or even the grocery store...basically anywhere people gather publicly.

If everyone did that it would be fine.

If you wouldnt say what you wanted to type here in a thread to somebody face to face...for whatever repercussion...be it you would get fired...get charged with sexual harassment...or even get your **** beat...dont say it here.

This has been an age old problem ( Well since the internet sprung up ) with people typing behind keyboards...there is that buffer zone of protection ...just like some drivers...the little old lady that teaches sunday school who flips every body off ...cuts em off...and blows her horn at everybody...while she is behind the wheel.

You guys can talk about new sections of the forum...new requirements for newbies to sell.....etc None of it will work...the only thing that works is knowing that if you break the rules...that there will be a price to pay.


Its the way law has worked since the dawn of time, make the punishment stiff enough ...and people think twice about doing the crime.


I mean look at it like this...a newbie signs up...screen name joelikestoknit234 ,
says expensive cables is too much money spent for little gain...he likes his radio shack cables...nothing derogatory...just his honest opinion....in the next 7 posts he gets responses of " Douchbag "...etc....you have all seen it time and again.

You wouldnt walk up to joelikestoknit234 in radio shack and call him a douchbag...you dont even know who he is in the forum ...and in radio shack you dont know who he is either...but you get a visual...something you dont get here on the forum. I bring up kniting because I knew a joe while fighting that used to knit...I kid you not

I could call him a sissy for knitting, but if polkmaster67534 with 7,000 posts walked up to him in radio shack and looked him in the eye and called him a douchbag...well...it just wouldnt happen.


Thats my simple point , make an attempt to treat people with the same respect on the forum as you would in a face to face encounter...newbie or master....that will take you far.

Everybody I have met from this forum in person , either face to face or in a group setting ..have been really cool people....and thats all you hear from everybody else who have done the same with their own FTF's and group gatherings.....lets not ruin a good thing here people.

And yes... people face to face have some humor in conversations, lets also not make this a boring sterile environment either...some of you owe me keyboards.


John

Serendipity

concealer404 wrote: »

Because it's not going to solve anything, as far as i can tell? Separating into sections doesn't stop arguments. It just moves those arguments into specific sections.

Again, I may be wrong - I've only been here for 3 years, but in the past few I noticed most of the arguments are starting in threads that are not part of the 6 things I mentioned.

Things like "snow shoveling" or "Trip to Utah" or even "What is Overclocking" don't really get into heated arguments. Same with "DIY ceiling project" and "Kitchen," etc.

Zitro

I can't help but wonder if there is a reason that there aren't more mods? Seems rather odd, given the size of this forum. Maybe a policy on Polks end?

I remember maybe the first or second day I was a member, I was going through the system showcase (a great feauture btw) and pmed Mark (Doro) a general question about the Quads he had. He answered me, and gave me some great advice in general about my relatively young audio journey, and I listened and it helped me greatly. New guys need stuff like that, and this forum is full of it. Help keep the passion alive by keeping CP alive!

concealer404

I dunno. It's the clubhouse. It's for off-topic discussion. Seems to go against the point if you put restrictions on it. I can understand politics and religion, but otherwise?

And honestly, the worst arguments i've seen in off topic were automotive related.

treitz3

cfrizz wrote: »

And WHO decides who is a troll?

Any one of the proposed "eyes", mods or admins. It would be easily detected by a reported post that could be made by any member of the forum.

The definition of an internet troll [or trolling], which is currently against CP rules...

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Trolls are easily spotted from a mile away. If a troll is warned and other mods,admins, or Polk management deems the decision too harsh or without merit? The decision can always be withdrawn and the posters record wiped clean for that particular violation.

danger boy

sad that Al had to write this stern message the the forum. But it was coming sooner or later. Yes things have gotten out of hand.. and Polk's original idea of providing a place for us to meet and get some education is sorely turned into romper room on crack.

I could go on and on about what I think should happen.. but i'll keep it brief.

Everything has a shelf life of XX number of years... then it's time to say goodbye and pay our respects to what it was like and how much fun it was. I'd hate to see club Polk forum close and just be a good memory for me. That would be a shame... and I know many of you agree and don't want to see that happen.

I can only offer this suggestion. The policy I would like to see enacted is this. You get one warning that your behavior is not acceptable. Second time you're out/banned for life. No if's and's or buts. One warning and then you're out if you continue to be a problem, because there will not be a second warning.

Al
Danger Boy

shack

It never ceases to amaze me that people "get their feelings hurt" on an internet forum. :rolleyes:

disneyjoe7

It seems that Al doesn't like to get email's about the forum, then I think he needs more mods members.

Huck344

Out of curiosity, why is there even a post count? I mean, I understand the general concept, but it seems that sometimes the attitude is that deference must be given to someone with 1k or 5k or 10k posts. Just because someone has a ton of posts doesn't mean that they know more than the next guy (or gal). It just means they've been around longer. Longevity does not necessarily equate to knowledge.

Serendipity

concealer404 wrote: »

I dunno. It's the clubhouse. It's for off-topic discussion. Seems to go against the point if you put restrictions on it. I can understand politics and religion, but otherwise?

I'm just saying that if we don't have sections for threads that usually turn into arguments, then a good portion of those threads will not be posted. Definitely will see fewer politics and religion threads, and if we don't have a "News" section there won't be as much arguing over controversial topics.

joeparaski

I think most trouble makers actually don't know that they are causing trouble.
Trolls don't really think they're trolling, at least not always.
Hundreds of different people with different personalities...things will not always be smooth.

Joe

Zitro

Serendipity wrote: »

I'm just saying that if we don't have sections for threads that usually turn into arguments, then a good portion of those threads will not be posted. Definitely will see fewer politics and religion threads, and if we don't have a "News" section there won't be as much arguing over controversial topics.

If there is no news section where will all the Jstas stories go? lol

shack

If one pays any attention to a forum post count...or if it has any significance at all to one's life, pro or con...then one seriously needs a life.

I sincerely :rolleyes: hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings.

Demiurge

cfrizz wrote: »

Sorry Demi, but it is some of these very same people who cause the most problems, and always have.

I DON'T CARE how much time/money/knowledge they have put in here it doesn't make their behavior right. Too many bones have been tossed their way & they have been allowed to get away with too much which is why the forum is in the state it's in.

It is only a few, the vast majority of the long time members on here know how to conduct themselves & I don't believe that this forum will collapse & die without the troublemakers.

Many have already left and the forum HAS continue to grow. There are many on here myself included who will continue to help newbies put together the best systems that they can because that is why we are here. To HELP and contribute positively to this forum. Not to stroke & boost our own egos.

That is the point of Al's post. It is his responsibility to do what is in the best interest of Polk Audio not about thowing some long time bully a bone at the expense of Polks reputation.

Cathy, I don't actually disagree with you, but I think you're misinterpreting my comments a bit.

My suggestion was that Polk should look to the people who have been here for a long time and have contributed much to the forum in a positive way as people to add to the ranks. It doesn't mean that anyone who has been here for a long time is automatically qualified for that task.

I think we need more people to step in when people get out of hand jumping on someone new who doesn't deserve it. Equally, we need more people to step in and deal with new folks who are disrespectful. Both happen far too much around here.

The reason? Lack of moderation. I guarantee the gnashing of teeth and claws will subside when people know that someone is handling it. Right now that's not happening very well due to the lack of supervision.

New folks have all the same opportunities to fit in that the rest of us had when we first started. Honestly, nothing has changed other than the forum getting larger.

There are many folks in this thread who have only been here a year or two who I would consider great assets to the forum.

How did they manage to fit in?

shadowofnight

treitz3 wrote: »

[Warnings]
You may want to consider a warning system. When someone does something that is in poor taste or reflects upon the forum in a bad way [or trolls], you might want to consider a behind the scenes "warning" to shape up and start reflecting him/herself as a positive force on this forum and not a detriment. Tell them what was unacceptable so that they know exactly where they crossed the line.

The second warning I would suggest to make public. I would also like to suggest that it be issued by the moderator(s). Once again, let them know where they crossed the line so that everybody involved in the discussion knows exactly where the line was crossed. If two or more people within a thread need a warning, so be it.

The third warning would be a temporary 30 day vacation from Polk Audio, no exceptions.

The fourth and final warning would result in a permanent banning.

My only other suggestion would be that all warnings would be monitored by all "eyes", mods, admins and Polk so that everybody is on the same page and no one person can make anything personal at any point.

[25 post before you sell rule]
Simply put a new member sales section up. Those that would like to purchase anything from that section would already [one would hope] have enough sense to know that "buyer beware" in this section would be a rule of thumb. Change nothing else in the current FM as it is currently a great system.

Both of those would be a HUGE benefit to the forum.

danger boy

throwing this idea out about our own behavior.

only one rule. behave like you would if you were in church/house of worship. on your best behavior. a place you would not argue with someone, a place you would not go off on someone because you didn't agree with them. A place you would not drop the f-bomb.. etc. you get my point. just be on your best behavior. I know it's tough for some folks, but give it a try.

MrNightly

I have gotten pretty busy with life, but still come here to enjoy a laugh as often as possible.

I think that it is pretty apparent that the board isn't policed "Equally." You get guys banned who are fine upstanding members but who might have lost their cool and yet other guys who can blatantly post multiple threads against the judgment of every single contributing member, and they get DEFENDED by the mods... that is ludicrous. I don't care who you are in business, without us, POLK wouldn't be around.

Not saying you need to kiss your customer's ****, but how about ruling them all fairly on the forum? If you are complaining Al, about receiving half a dozen (6) emails a week from people upset, that seems pretty good to me for the size of Polk Audio. I run a company, and complaints happen. If the good doesn't out weight the bad, shut it down... No biggie. However, I can't help but think that the good here FAR FAR FAR outweighs 6 complaints a week.

It seems that maybe the drama starts at the top... who posts a thread about too much drama, that only starts drama? Put the pieces in place to control the situation if you think it's out of hand.. and state what the rules are... and if someone doesn't follow the rules, it's over. This is 2010 though, and forums and online chatting/banter is abundant no matter WHERE you go. Hell, even Facebook has rantings and fights over posts... welcome to the new century. Grow some thicker skin and put the safe guards on how you want your company to look in place, and then do it. All the talk about it is just a sign of weakness to me.

dorourke07

Since this is a corporate site, heavy handed moderation is ok and could help us stay on topic in some cases. Also, maybe instead of posts for access to areas a time limit can be set. Maybe after a few weeks different areas of the forum could open up more areas with the sales area last. If you are into audio you get a start and from there the whole experience opens up.

Ricardo

danger boy wrote: »

only one rule. behave like you would if you were in church/house of worship.

Sorry Al, but that would be a bit too much.

(Bless you).

Serendipity

I'd like to be a moderator if possible.

EFanning

I respectfully ask that the Polk marketing team make a quick note of the statements below before deciding on the future of this forum:

If Club Polk goes dark, I'd be much, much less likely to buy Polk Audio products.

I was pulled into the Polk product world because of this forum. I've purchased Polk speakers because of this forum.

I have an unusually high level of respect for Polk because of this forum.

I visit every day.

Polkersince85

This is Polk's forum. The right of free speech only applies to the U.S government's limitation on it's citizens. We need to be thankful Polk spends the time and money to keep this forum on line. We all have a responsibility to promote the goodwill and products of Polk Audio. With any business expenditure, there has to be a return on investment.

My recommendations would be change the Troubleshooting area to Customer Service/Troubleshooting. This area is where a lot of recent customers come for questions and help. Limit the posts to the OP and Polk. There may be a better chance to provide a more favorable opinion of the site by doing this.

The "Report this Post" should be changed to "Suspend this Thread" available to everyone. It would stop a thread in it's tracks. The thread could then be reviewed by Mods for follow through. If the function is abused by a member, then the Mod could handle that issue also. This would give the mods a lot more eyes on the board. The decision of the Mod would rule.

brettw22

Serendipity wrote: »

Again, I may be wrong - I've only been here for 3 years, but in the past few I noticed most of the arguments are starting in threads that are not part of the 6 things I mentioned.

You've made your point about the clubhouse 5x now....safe to say it's been heard. I would disagree with the subforums because this is an audio forum. It's not a youtube forum, a car repair forum, etc. etc.. The reason the Clubhouse even exists is for all the other stuff that doesn't fit into the other audio aligned subforums.

As for Polk posting their opinions on power cables, etc......fat chance....lol.....you think that everyone that works at Polk agrees on these things just because they work there? It's subjective, and worth each person doing whatever testing they want to do to see what they do/do not like.

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

It seems that Al doesn't like to get email's about the forum, then I think he needs more mods members.

I don't know where you interpreted his post as he doesn't liek to get emails. What he dosn't like is the reasons that many of those emails exist in the first place...there's a difference. Someone of Al's level in the company shouldn't have to post here at all like his initial post of this thread.

These threads have happened over the years and I think the problem is that the same people that perpetuate the problems still are allowed to remain members. I don't like a 3 warning system then you're out because that's been said/done before and look where this place is again. I think you get a single warning (with renewed intensity of enforcement of the rules), and after that, bounce. It's time to clean house because, as has been shown in the past and the fact that this thread exists, stern warnings don't seem to work.

BobMcG

Holly cow! Have I been away too long! I had no idea that things in here were reaching a boiling point. A quick look around didn't give me that impression...

Oh well, the Club's been to this stage numerous times during the last 16 yrs but it's capable of surviving this rough time as well.

All IMO of course: Perhaps there are a couple of things that could be done to help the site carry on. Probably the single biggest change would be to setup the Polk Forums to be more like a lot of other sites (at least ones I'm familiar with) in as much as having a good team of moderators and supplying them with the tools to work with. IE: Being able to, lock threads, delete threads/posts, sanction/punish or banish. These mods are labeled as such and stationed around the clock with certain areas of the forum assigned to them. Some sites also have strict guidelines/limits placed on newcomers during a period of probation. Maybe this would help Polk with some issues too.

IMO again, Polk's site seems to be broken down into appropriate audio related forums quite well as it stands. What I can't see working to any great advantage is making a whole bunch of smaller sub forums in the Clubhouse forum. I can't realistically see that resulting in a reduction of friction. More clutter maybe, (& more forums for the mods to keep up with) but not less friction.

BTW: The idea to close accounts for being inactive for X # of days wouldn't be a new feature getting my vote by any stretch. It also wouldn't change the friction problems being experienced one bit either.

Just my two cents.

Serendipity

brettw22 wrote: »

I would disagree with the subforums because this is an audio forum. It's not a youtube forum, a car repair forum, etc. etc..

Ok. I agree this is an audio forum and not a car forum, etc.

But then why do we have the "Video Games" section?

Ever notice the "Video Games" section get out of control?

concealer404

Because video games have sound...