An important message from the Management

kab

Did you know that, in April, the Forum will be 16 years old?

Petulant, cocksure, abusive, self aggrandizing, impulsive, impatient, energetic, optimistic and powerful. Sound like a 16 year old?

If you’ve been around for a while, you’ve heard me say that, in creating the Forum, our goal was to give to Polk owners and hobbyists a place to share their passions, knowledge and enthusiasm. Where friendships can be made. Where old friends can stay in touch. Where visitors can find help. Where newbies can find a home. I’ve intentionally minimized Polk’s participation over the years because I didn’t want the Forum to be a “company store.” Well congratulations and thank you. The Forum has succeeded and endured beyond anything any of us could have imagined.

As many of you know, teenagers are a handful. This teenager, the Forum, has in the past 12 months seen more turbulence, more trouble and more complaints than any sustained period I can remember. I don’t know about you but it’s wearing me down. I get a half dozen emails a week from those who say they were insulted, abused or driven away by Forum members and that they were no longer interested in Polk since we obviously condone this behavior. The old adage in business is that for everyone that you hear from, there are ten with the same experience that you will never hear from.

Self policing is clearly not working. Old timers act like they own the place and want to close the door behind them. There are others that prey on the thin skinned. There's more toilet humor and profanity that at summer camp. Worst of all, there are those that throw hand-grenades just to see what happens and then claim innocence. I am perpetually amazed that an otherwise normal cordial person can get behind a keyboard and become Savonarola. We have many.

Patrick and I have talked about solutions. I’ve considered pulling the plug, but that would be a tragedy. I’ve considered closing the clubhouse since most trouble starts there; I’d hate to do that. I’ve considered enacting “police state” rules but, even if I chose to, we don’t have the eyes to evenly enforce them. So I am at a bit of a loss.

The Forum belongs to all of us and, if you care one iota about it you ought to be working to save and protect it. I’m just like you in the quagmire. Except I have a responsibility to Polk Audio and I have the plug.

“Yea right…I agree…you go Al” doesn’t cut it. The only thing I can promise you is that within the next two weeks, the tone must change or I must force change. Do you want to be a part of this or do you want to exit? Those are the only choices. Maybe you have some concrete ideas. If so, I want to hear them now. If not, stay tuned. Change is coming.

Al

hoosier21

A stronger hand from Polk and the mods, fair and firm actions to stop the trouble before it gets too far.

The Mods need to be identified as such, so everyone knows who they are.

A review of the rules posted here, and then a stronger enfocement of them, for everyone.

A few days or weeks of cleaning up the mess would set a new tone and set the standard from here on out.

billbillw

I would hate to see this forum go away. I look at the Polk Forum as being my 'first love' when it comes to the world of forums. Although I'm involved in dozens of other forums now, Polk was really the first one that I really became involved with. I've always done my best to treat the forum and other members with respect.

I hope that the trouble makers can learn to be civil or go away.

I agree with Russ, more mods and swifter firmer action is needed.

Systems

I know your a busy man, but your presence on here a little more might make everybody sit up straight in their desks:)

I've had a love hate relationship with this place, mostly love though...

But yeah, more moderation, a little zero tolerance thrown in there...

janmike

It is sad that you Al have had to become part of this. I hope all works out for the best.

cfrizz

I too would hate to have this forum close just because of a few trouble makers both OLD & new.

So yes appoint more mods those whom you deem would be fair & impartial & not swayed or scared to go after someone who has been here for years & thinks it gives them the right to say whatever they want and get away with it.

I love this board & and like & respect most of the people on here. And if this message is enough to get through to the extremely thick, skulls that are doing more harm than good around here, that would be great.

If not, then PLEASE start banning them. Again it has to be even handed & the old timers need to go as well as the newer members.

Don't worry, the rest of us who do know how to act like civilized human beings will be around to make sure that this forum continues to grow and flourish & be one of the most helpful & informative forums on audio!

hoosier21

It's not like I posted any new ideas, this place has always seemed to "hope" adults will act like adults, well they don't and never will.

Trouble starts, and grows and goes on till we hear from Polk or the mods how we need to act better or action will be taken, well damn, take action to begin with, that is what you are on here for.

I have never been in any meeting about how Polk wants this place policed other than a small meeting during a Polkfest, but I am sure you have an idea of what you want on here, and I know you have the right and power to make it happen, so make it happen.

Serendipity

I've never really had a problem with anyone on the Forum. It's a nice place to be and I've learned a lot from other members here.

What I'd like to suggest to make things easier is to split up the Clubhouse and have individual sections for certain discussions. Like an "All Things Automotive" section or "Projects" section not related to audio.

That way, we can ask for help / have discussions without interfering with other threads. I know my "Oil Change" threads and DIY thread sometimes turned into arguments when the intent was to just ask a simple question. Maybe separating these DIY (non-audio) or project threads from the general section would avoid arguments.

george daniel

OK--all you guys that are reading this,but are not posting in it,,,,did you hear what the MAN SAID ????


Nuff said--everybody needs to keep their sheet wired tight--you got it?

We can all tell who's gonna contribute,,and who's just passing thru,, let the trolls and idiots go their own way,,they never stay anyway.

as we say down here,,,Ya'll hear what the man said?

Osarion

I've seen a lot of people ostracized for racing to 25 posts to sell something. Maybe start a newbie for sale area where post count doesn't matter. And you can raise the post count requirement for the regular for sale area. It's not a new idea as I've seen it on other boards and even mentioned here from time to time.

wayne3burk

I'm new here -- and i think it's a shame anyone on here who's a an old-timer would do or say anything that would leave someone with no choice but to email you or any mod and complain, to the point that they would be biased against Polks or any other product for that matter. My experience here so far has only been positive, and I don't have armadillo skin.

Is there anyway to take the servers with all the messages and all the threads and all in the info and all the history and give them to a non-profit organization. Then Polk wouldn't have their good name tarnished by the trash talkers, grenade throwers and bottom feeders?

Serendipity

kab wrote: »

Maybe you have some concrete ideas. If so, I want to hear them now. If not, stay tuned. Change is coming.

Al

Make the Clubhouse into smaller sub-sections.

Like I said in my previous post, there are times where a serious question turns into an argument especially with regards to home rennovations, car projects, or the like.

I'm one who will skip the argument threads and just read threads that pertain to useful info - AUDIO, for example.... or someone's DIY project that they liked to share. When such threads turn into arguments they are no fun to read.

Systems

Serendipity wrote: »

Make the Clubhouse into smaller sub-sections.

Like I said in my previous post, there are times where a serious question turns into an argument especially with regards to home rennovations, car projects, or the like.

I'm one who will skip the argument threads and just read threads that pertain to useful info - AUDIO, for example.... or someone's DIY project that they liked to share. When such threads turn into arguments they are no fun to read.

Yes, I've suggested that too, I thought it would be nice to have a computer section...

Pauly

Man its sad when Al has to post that.

He has better things to worry about.

Id hate for this place to be gone after all these years, but it has become its own monster. (no pun )

Lay down the law guys. Im game

Pauly

Serendipity

Lorthos wrote: »

Yes, I've suggested that too, I thought it would be nice to have a computer section...

How about the following:

"All Things Automotive"

"Computer Tech and Hardware"

"Household Projects"

sucks2beme

Osarion wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people ostracized for racing to 25 posts to sell something. Maybe start a newbie for sale area where post count doesn't matter. And you can raise the post count requirement for the regular for sale area. It's not a new idea as I've seen it on other boards and even mentioned here from time to time.

That's not the purpose of the forum as a cheap non-ebay .
The rules are there to protect members from fly by night
people that join just to sell. The best idea is to hide the sales area from
people not signed it. It helps to prevent people from randoming searching,
finding it, and abusing it. That leads to a lot of scamming.

I do like Club Polk, as it serves as a good place to learn basics of good sound.
Most of the tension comes from new VS. old members, true enough.
Cable debates seem to draw out the worst in people, since there isn't much
middle ground. There are forums that warn against those type of debates.
Common sense, and non absolutes in responses would hep tone things down.

Serendipity

Right now in the Clubhouse, I see:

- Computer Threads -
What computer program do you use for music playback?
New HTPC
Any Laptop Technicians?
Going blind reading CP forums on iPhone
33 Minute XP Installation Hangup

- Household Projects -
Heat Pump Water Heater
Cabinet doors
New system pics + house pics
I have so much storage space....
Do I install skylights in our two bathrooms?

Knucklehead

What happened to..."If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all".

SolidSqual

Last time someone said, "Change is coming", things didn't turn out like people Hoped.

Serendipity

Looking through old posts:

- Automotive Threads -
Dream Car Garage
Jeep Wrangler
How do I change my oil?
Cleaning K&N air filter?
Aftermarket exhaust system?
Nissan Maxima problems...

stuwee

Toe quote "Self policing is clearly not working. Old timers act like they own the place and want to close the door behind them. There are others that prey on the thin skinned. There's more toilet humor and profanity that at summer camp. Worst of all, there are those that throw hand-grenades just to see what happens and then claim innocence. I am perpetually amazed that an otherwise normal cordial person can get behind a keyboard and become Savonarola. We have many.
"

KAB, you won't get a message from me complaining about this, I'll just quietly go away, this place has more A type personalities that think post count rules all. I have read more disgusting things from the so called 'leaders' (you know who you think you are). I've wonder why it took so long for someone like you to step in. This place seems to be imploding with venom. I have an image of big orcs with pointed sticks poking at scared little hobbits.

Is that the image Club Polk should be putting forward? I'm not the only one who occacionally stops in for a read and gets sucked into an arguement with a 'Polk Master', again you know who you are! Many are sweet hearts (not because they haven't attacked myself) But because the don't attack Period. I seriously haven't seen the likes of what goes on here in any other forum in a long time....and I've been around.

Thank you for bring this up (I, as basically a outside thrid party had been wondering wtf was up here). It is a great place, I hope it all works out!

Craig

Pycroft

Hello...

Those who know me know I don't get involved in any of the crap that sometimes goes on. I keep to myself, contribute where I can, ask questions where I need, and stay happy.

You can count me in with the list of people who are relatively new...I've been here a bit over a year, and have contributed throughout my time here. You can also count me in the group that almost left a the beginning - not because I was personally picked on in any way, but because I saw some attitudes around here, and almost decided I didn't want to deal with it. Luckily I stayed.

I'd like to just say that no matter how much you change the format of the clubhouse, for sale ads, or any of the forums in any way, unless you deal specifically with specific issues (mainly specific people), issues won't go away, will just be hidden.

I agree that more moderation from the higher-ups - either in the form of warning emails, short-term/long-term/permanent bans, etc. would help keep any problems that the moderators see, in-check. Good luck.

James

disneyjoe7

It hardens my heart too hear this, don't feel you can please everyone every time. In saying that given Polk Audio Forum size, in the end are you making more business vs. losing business is the $64000 question. I personnel say you're Polk making more business then anything else, but whom is I? If you feel Polk needs more intervention in disciplining the forum, may I add we need more mod intervention saying what you said here or how it was stated isn't going to be exepted in the future. You set the ground rules, and people will fall in line, or people will leave.

mrbofus

Knucklehead wrote: »

What happened to..."If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all".

Agreed!!! Or at least use a civil tone in response.
I, myself not being around here all that long has asked several questions and "opinions". I have gained a lot of knowledge just by reading thru the various post of interest. It would be a shame that a few bad apples spoil the whole basket.
There seem to be those who thrive on stirring the pot, and others who seem very thin skinned. But when opinions are asked there are going to be differences, like asking which is better-FORD or CHEVY.
So as the MAN said, If we want to keep this going lets EVERYBODY act like a little more respectfully to each other. If that does not work, a little more input from the moderators and dont be afraid to WARM or BAN those members who are fueling the fires.. I have read some posts that have gone on way to long before someone said ENOUGH.
We shouldnt need the hand of BIG BROTHER AL, but apparently we do!
Lets all get it together to keep this Forum alive and well.
Greg

George Grand

The "Ignore" feature is a tool provided by the management, which over the last couple of years has allowed me to peacefully co-exist here. That is my opinion, I could be wrong. I think more people should employ it.

It was do or die, as Al had just had a personal, face-to-face "discussion" with about 10 of us "old-timers" about this very problem, almost two years ago at PolkFest.

concealer404

I don't understand how some of the "newbies" have no problems with this place, and others develop into trolls or experience epic butthurt.

Case in point, this thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97471

There are MULTIPLE examples like this that happen weekly. People that come here, and are highly impressed by the level of help and opinions they get. People that come here and stick around because they like the atmosphere.

I don't know. Just seems strange. I don't think this place is ever going to be without it's problems. It's just how people interact.

I like it here. I've always liked it here. The people that were ruining it for me, or started to lessen my enjoyment, are now on ignore. It's that simple. People don't use the ignore feature as much as they should.

But if it's a choice between moderation and shutting the place down, then moderate away. If it's left up to everyone shaping up their act, there's going to be a select few that will ruin it. Human nature.

cfrizz

Having umpteen sections for all things will NOT solve the problem with all of the bickering. And that is not what Al is talking about.

He is talking about all of the useless & derogatory threads that start whenever someone asks about an Emotiva product. Or anytime Mike LoManco starts a review thread, or someone posts 25 times to sell something. Or the immature people who are constantly (joking) with one another but using vulgar toilet comments to each other. And on & on & on.

If the OLD TIMERs who are under the impression that they own this board rather than Polk Audio would simply ignore these threads things would be better around here. Now I know some will say it would be boring, well go get your kicks SOMEWHERE else.

And if the only way you know how to talk & joke around is by using toilet humor, GO AWAY & GROW UP!

I have no patience for bullies or ignorant people whether on the internet or otherwise. These people need to clean up their act or be booted out plain & simple.

There are already good rules in place here, they simply need to be enforced across the board. Starting now there should be a PUBLIC 3 strike you are OUT quota.

You get warned 3 times publicly in the thread/s where the offenses took place, then you are permanantly banned.

If it is done publicly, EVERYONE will know who the offender is, & why & where they offended & no one will be able to claim favoritism.

mhmacw

of course this might be very subjective but i think as time goes on you can see from the posts who is involved with which and how many arguments. this is in essence a debate forum. when there are so many ways to do something its no longer a discussion of facts but a factual discussion. it would seem to me the same users are involved or at least have participated in the majority of the arguments. if i were to give a humble suggestion AL i would say start over the post count. or pull the plug and reset the numbers. keep the info but the post count seems to give sense of hierarchy and to me the "ive been here longer" type attitude tends to create an above the law mentality. no one is any better than anybody else here. there may be different levels of experience but not different levels of humanity. thanks AL i appreciate your forum and all it has done for my ears. kind regards, Dan

Ricardo

I say ban Cathy. She's the troublemaker.

SolidSqual

Ricardo wrote: »

I say ban Cathy. She's the troublemaker.

I say we force all the Polk Masters to enter into Prestige Mode so they are forced to level up again.:D

Serendipity

mrbofus wrote: »

But when opinions are asked there are going to be differences, like asking which is better-FORD or CHEVY.

That's why I asked for an Automotive section. Where threads like "How do I change my oil" or "Question about CV Joints and Suspension" can be posted without hearing the Ford vs. Chevy debate. Let's face it, some of us are looking for advice (audiobliss, for example) on their automotive problems and don't want the threads to turn into arguments.