An important message from the Management

steveinaz

Look at the GlockTalk forum; I've been a member there for over 10 years. No cussing, no brand bashing, no fight starting---they will ban you in a hot second if you don't keep it civil. Everyone knows this, and they abide (at least the vast majority do, the rest are gone). The minute you get "personal" with someone, you get a stern warning, the next time--you are gone. People adapt to Eric's rules (forum owner) and it works. That forum is HUGE in membership. They do allow people to get hot under the collar (especially in the politics forum) as long as you don't make personal attacks. There's a difference between "hot" debate, and attacking someone personally; unfortunately some on CP can't handle this level of maturity.

shepx2

Roy Munson wrote: »

After five years here I had to put a member on "ignore", I didn't really want to but after being called an **** by this guy because I voiced an opinion just rubbed me the wrong way. I've seen it happen hundreds of times to others and I think GG has the right approach about using the "ignore" feature. I also agree more people should use it because there are several people here that are serial offenders that seem to be at the center of many of the threads that turn bad.

Ignore is a fantastic, underused feature; however, when you have a couple people who are repeat offenders that always seem to be at the heart of problems, ignore is not the answer: the door is.

The problems we are having now are no different than they were back in the old days of the original forum. The difference between now and then is the larger number of people we currently have, and that is it. The percentages of troublemakers has always stayed the same, but you are going to hear more complaints due to the increase of people.

I applaud Polk in their attempt to allow the forum to be self-policed as much as possible. But just like the parent who never disciplines their kid, it's going to eventually come back to haunt you. And here we are today.

We definitely need a few more moderators, but they need to be levelheaded people who are not easily provoked and will not abuse their power. They also have to be able to ban when necessary, and know that Polk will back them in their decisions, even if it's a long-time member.

It's almost spring time. And in order for the garden to grow, we need to pull the weeds.

snow

Well you asked.... so here goes, IMHO I think a new set of rules needs to be posted and everyone including the mods should follow these rules. Zero tolerance for bad behavior period, the first time "anyone" breaks the rules they get a warning, the second time they get a week off, the third time a month off, the 4th time poof your gone for good. But the rules need to be clearly posted and the penaltys strictly enforced "no exceptions period" or else it wont work.

I have been guilty of bad behavior in the past and am as guilty as anyone else here but if I knew that a ban was just around the corner and that I wasnt going to catch a break I would think twice about what I typed

I think the 25 post rule to sell is a joke and only stirs up animosity between new members and old. It should be up to the discretion of the buyer to decide whether he or she is willing to take the risk of buying something.

Closing the forum is a bad idea it serves as a place to discuss Polk and other products it helps create a bond amongst polk owners and Polk products it is a wonderful place to ask questions and receive help from other members and Polk employees alike, I truly believe Polk products would take a huge hit in sales if this forum didnt exist, the support we all receive here is priceless.

I also think that the banning of Joe AKA hearingimpaired permanantly was a bad idea and has brought morale to an all time low and tensions on the forum to an all time high. The punishment didnt fit the crime IMHO and his return to CP would be a good start towards returning order to the forum.

REGARDS SNOW

billbillw

Extra subforums won't help anything. Extra moderation will. I agree with Steve. There are far too many members who have been able to get away with very inappropriate behavior for far too long. Most of those, I wouldn't miss. Warnings, then bans.

Make at least one moderator for each sub-forum and for the busier forums, make two. If a mod is going on vacation, he needs to get another mod to cover his sections while gone. Not sure how heavy the mod hands need to be, but there needs to be a noticeable presence.

wz2p7j

Jim Shearer wrote: »

I visit here often, but you can tell from my post count that I don’t say all that much--why bother wasting band width if I don’t have anything useful to add?

Here are my thoughts:

1) The For Sale and Club House sections should only be visible to registered members.

2) Polk owns the forum and has every right to moderate it heavily.

3) If there is serious desire to clamp down on spam and trolling by ‘passers-by’, then limit access to those who register Polk products or who are willing to pay a modest registration fee--maybe $10 or so. This will filter out the people who join only to cause trouble.

4) I belong to some forums which require that you state your real name in order to join/participate. Behavior tends to improve when folks know who you are!

Cheers, Jim

Good point, especially number 4.

HeWhoBeBad

brettw22

Trust me, this forum has seen far worse days than the banning of Joe.......if someone getting banned for their behavior puts you in an 'all time low' then you're taking this place WAY too seriously....

cfrizz

Serendipity wrote: »

Then:
1. Attitudes/personalities need to change, or
2. Take away the Clubhouse.

The problem isn't the Clubhouse the problem is just a few people who are messing it up for the majority & need to be eliminated.

steveinaz

I think the minimum post rule for selling should be changed to a time period rather than post count. Think about it, selling is an opportunistic venture, you can make 25 post in a day, but if you've got something to sell, you're not going to wait weeks to even bother.

I do like having standards to post in the FM though, it keeps the spirit of why it is there, intact. It also cuts down on fly-by-nighters just hocking their wares to people they couldn't care less about. IMO.

Serendipity

kcoc321 wrote: »

If someone is just being a 'troll for a day', strike one is they get limited in what they can post, for say a 1-2 week period. Strike two they are reduced to only being able to reply in threads, not create new ones. Stops them from being able to start fights. Strike three, bye bye.

+1

I agree with the 3 strike rule and it's a good idea.

snow

brettw22 wrote: »

Trust me, this forum has seen far worse days than the banning of Joe.......if someone getting banned for their behavior puts you in an 'all time low' then you're taking this place WAY too seriously....

I am not going to take the bait Brett, this thread was started for suggestions regarding the future of CP not to fight amongst ourselves Me mentioniing Joe was to show a prime example of how the rules and punishments need to be equitablly enforced in order for the forum to run smoothly. Its funny in a way though looking through the different posts here to see people arguing about other peoples ideas lmaoo.



REGARDS SNOW

brettw22

you mean like the bait about campaigning to reinstate a banned member in such a thread as you recognize for seeking suggestions?

I'm just playin here......no animosity......and i'm off to shower....enjoy

hearingimpared

I agree that more mods are needed. Three people, one at a time, can't possibly deal with all moderator issues not to mention in a timely fashion.

I think one of the main issues though is the lack of consistency in moderation but I believe that is due to the fact that we have only three, two of which are very active but I imagine they are overwhelmed with a forum this large. Plus God knows how many PMs and emails they receive and have to deal with in the backround. I would also like to point out that the mods like Patrick have other duties to perform . . . Mark has a real job that he is responsible to and to put bread on the table. I for one wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now.

I think there are many willing, able, level headed, and objective members here who would be excellent mods.

As far as zeroing out post counts, that not going to change anything. However reading posts and getting a feel for the posters intentions, experience, knoweldge and persona goes a long way.

More forums in the Clubhouse is not going to improve what Al speaks of, it is just going to clutter up an already busy board.

IMHO this is, by far, the best audio CLUB on the internet, not just a sterile forum, with a family like atmosphere and just like in any family there are going to be disagreements. We ALL need to be civil to each other even when dealing with a "troll." Trolls are usually weeded out by themselves especially when they are talking to thin air i.e. GG's method, the IGNORE feature. I've just recently started taking advantage of the ignore feature and find myself eating less Tums!!! LOL!

I love this place and have put my heart and soul into it and would hate to see it shut down or made into a sterile environment.

wayne3burk

steveinaz wrote: »

Look at the GlockTalk forum; I've been a member there for over 10 years. No cussing, no brand bashing, no fight starting---they will ban you in a hot second if you don't keep it civil. Everyone knows this, and they abide (at least the vast majority do, the rest are gone). The minute you get "personal" with someone, you get a stern warning, the next time--you are gone. People adapt to Eric's rules (forum owner) and it works. That forum is HUGE in membership. They do allow people to get hot under the collar (especially in the politics forum) as long as you don't make personal attacks. There's a difference between "hot" debate, and attacking someone personally; unfortunately some on CP can't handle this level of maturity.

I think people keep their tone civil in a Glock Forum --- because no one's ever used a Polk to kill someone with.

hearingimpared

LOL! but I gotta agree with Steve except for the sterness of the policing. Everyone gets their backs up once in a while and their fingers get ahead of their brain. I know I've been guilty of this many times. With the time limit placed on the edit feature it doesn't allow for someone to change their post. However one can still apologize for a terse or inappropriate post. The point is making rules so stringent that if one screws up once or twice and is gone is not a good option in that we are all human and do stupid things from time to time.

I just went through that here because I wasn't thinking I was reacting and couldn't take it back.

treitz3

Welcome back Joe.

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

I agree that more mods are needed. Three people, one at a time, can't possibly deal with all moderator issues not to mention in a timely fashion.

I think one of the main issues though is the lack of consistency in moderation but I believe that is due to the fact that we have only three, two of which are very active but I imagine they are overwhelmed with a forum this large. Plus God knows how many PMs and emails they receive and have to deal with in the backround. I would also like to point out that the mods like Patrick have other duties to perform . . . Mark has a real job that he is responsible to and to put bread on the table. I for one wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now.

I think there are many willing, able, level headed, and objective members here who would be excellent mods.

As far as zeroing out post counts, that not going to change anything. However reading posts and getting a feel for the posters intentions, experience, knoweldge and persona goes a long way.

More forums in the Clubhouse is not going to improve what Al speaks of, it is just going to clutter up an already busy board.

IMHO this is, by far, the best audio CLUB on the internet, not just a sterile forum, with a family like atmosphere and just like in any family there are going to be disagreements. We ALL need to be civil to each other even when dealing with a "troll." Trolls are usually weeded out by themselves especially when they are talking to thin air i.e. GG's method, the IGNORE feature. I've just recently started taking advantage of the ignore feature and find myself eating less Tums!!! LOL!

I love this place and have put my heart and soul into it and would hate to see it shut down or made into a sterile environment.

Hey your back!!!!

REGARDS SNOW

concealer404

hearingimpared wrote: »

I agree that more mods are needed. Three people, one at a time, can't possibly deal with all moderator issues not to mention in a timely fashion.

I think one of the main issues though is the lack of consistency in moderation but I believe that is due to the fact that we have only three, two of which are very active but I imagine they are overwhelmed with a forum this large. Plus God knows how many PMs and emails they receive and have to deal with in the backround. I would also like to point out that the mods like Patrick have other duties to perform . . . Mark has a real job that he is responsible to and to put bread on the table. I for one wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now.

I think there are many willing, able, level headed, and objective members here who would be excellent mods.

As far as zeroing out post counts, that not going to change anything. However reading posts and getting a feel for the posters intentions, experience, knoweldge and persona goes a long way.

More forums in the Clubhouse is not going to improve what Al speaks of, it is just going to clutter up an already busy board.

IMHO this is, by far, the best audio CLUB on the internet, not just a sterile forum, with a family like atmosphere and just like in any family there are going to be disagreements. We ALL need to be civil to each other even when dealing with a "troll." Trolls are usually weeded out by themselves especially when they are talking to thin air i.e. GG's method, the IGNORE feature. I've just recently started taking advantage of the ignore feature and find myself eating less Tums!!! LOL!

I love this place and have put my heart and soul into it and would hate to see it shut down or made into a sterile environment.

Man... i hate Tums. So... chalky.

Welcome back.

Serendipity

I would like to also suggest the following:

1. No fighting.
2. No cursing.
3. No personal attacks.

Just keep those 3 things in mind before posting and everything will be ok.

cfrizz

Demiurge wrote: »

Cathy, I don't actually disagree with you, but I think you're misinterpreting my comments a bit.

My suggestion was that Polk should look to the people who have been here for a long time and have contributed much to the forum in a positive way as people to add to the ranks. It doesn't mean that anyone who has been here for a long time is automatically qualified for that task.

I think we need more people to step in when people get out of hand jumping on someone new who doesn't deserve it. Equally, we need more people to step in and deal with new folks who are disrespectful. Both happen far too much around here.

The reason? Lack of moderation. I guarantee the gnashing of teeth and claws will subside when people know that someone is handling it. Right now that's not happening very well due to the lack of supervision.

New folks have all the same opportunities to fit in that the rest of us had when we first started. Honestly, nothing has changed other than the forum getting larger.

There are many folks in this thread who have only been here a year or two who I would consider great assets to the forum.

How did they manage to fit in?

Gotcha, thank you for the clarification.:) I agree entirely.

Steve you are also right on the money with your observations.

F1nut

Really good ideas.

The "Ignore" feature is a tool provided by the management.

Add a couple more mods.

The For Sale forum stays hidden until so many posts.

Put a new member sales section up.

The trolls need to be dealt with immediately.

The following two posters have their finger on the pulse.

I believe strongly that there is a concerted effort on the part of some new members to bring trouble here, and this is their only reason for joining in the first place. There has been a mission of trying to get Club Polk closed up. When a post such as yours has been made publicly admitting the possibility, they will gloat on the other boards about it. I won't single any one individual or group, but there are more than a few boards that will gleefully be discussing this and will perhaps come here to add fuel to the fire. I have seen members of other boards suggest such action and have witnessed the results here. I also believe that nearly anyone that complains to you about their treatment at the hands of the forum community would fall into this group, and have no intentions of ever owning Polk gear in the first place.

As with the body, members here react to those that come here to start trouble like antibodies to a virus and the best thing that could happen is to remove the cause of the trouble.

One of the best aspects of CP is that it has been here longer than most any other online audio community, and what I see happening is that those of us that love this place have become protective of it and other members, just as any family would. This is understandable, and even desirable.

There must be a stronger look taken at newcomers to CP. Perhaps something along the lines of a valid product serial number to gain full and immediate access to all areas of the site and a 25 post minimum for members that do not to gain access to anything other than a few areas of the board. All newbie areas should be narrowly focused to asking Polk Audio product information only. This would allow the basic character of an individual to be assessed before further access can be granted. Once they have the required number of posts to gain access to other areas, new members should be made aware upfront via an E-sign document what the rules of posting are and the conduct expected by Polk Audio. Whatever these policies are, they should be enforced equally and without malace.

Another point would be for there to be a few mods that are members. Having a few upstanding members allowed to temporarily block a troller from posting and lock threads pending further review from You, Doro and Patrick would go a long way to calming the place down. I believe this will quickly end trolling as the ones responsible for the action will be stopped in their tracks. This would also prevent the long pissing matches that begin when long-standing members get protective of their online home.

Cp is to big a place to be administered by a relative handful of people, and has been for a very long time. I hope that it continues to thrive.

What does Polk expect to happen when there are basically only two guys running this place? I know there are more than that, but face it -- dorokusai and Patrick C (who I assume has many more responsibilities) are the only two who openly get involved here on a regular basis that anyone can see. Until recently, it was only the old guard who knew dorokusai was a moderator.

In the face of this lack of moderation, you have people who feel very strongly about this forum taking it upon themselves to police it. Few were qualified and many were not. For better or worse, they used the tools that were at their disposal and that often got ugly. Again, what do you expect? These people do not have the ability to lock threads, issue temporary bans, or have any real influence through private message.

You need more moderators, and unless there's an internal policy I'm not privy to -- they don't need to be people collecting a paycheck from Polk Audio.

This place completely lacks direction. If I was Polk I would look to the people who helped mold this forum into the great place it is (or was, if you're feeling cynical). Many of those folks have simply left already. Polk's problem isn't simply placating new folks, which forgive me for saying, seems to be the track Polk has taken of late.


Quote:
Old timers act like they own the place and want to close the door behind them.

It's comments like this that make me cynical about the future here. While nobody but Polk owns this forum, you cannot deny that there are many folks out there who have put a lot into this place, be it money, time, or knowledge. They did it for nothing other than to make friends and have a place to hang out.

As I said above, you'd do well to throw them a bone. Without them, this place is just another forum.

Really bad ideas.

Having umpteen sections for all things.

Start over the post count.

Serendipity

F1nut wrote: »

Really good ideas.

Really bad ideas.

Why don't we let Al decide what's a good vs. bad idea?

brettw22

Trust, Al will be the one making the decisions, not F1, not me, not anyone.......we're just saying it's a bad idea.....lol.....

inspiredsports

I've written it here on several occasions, and read it over and over, "Club Polk is the best forum on the Internet."

Let's keep it that way. We all need to step up our game.

Step in and publish when you can help, count to ten and err on not publishing when it won't really help.

hearingimpared

Thanks for the welcome backs but please if you are going to do it, do it in PMs. Not that I don't appreciate it I just don't want a big deal made of it.

DollarDave

My suggestion is a little different - just like when you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. If you aren't buying something for sale, or don't have a question about it, don't post. Too darn much "if only I hadn't bought mine last year", or "If I had the money, I would be interested..".

concealer404

Serendipity wrote: »

Why don't we let Al decide what's a good vs. bad idea?

It's an opinion man... Ironically, this is what i see as one of the bigger problems. People reading an opinion, then seeing it as an incorrect fact and an attack, then getting butthurt. (for the record, you don't actually seem butthurt) It's not. It's just an opinion. Agree or disagree with it as you wish.

Serendipity

Gotcha.

mhmacw

ive read als monologue a few times now and cant seem to find the part where it says "please tell otheres there ideas arnet good if they conflict with your own personal thoughts" if you could show me this part jesse i would really appreciate it. thanks so much for your expertise, dan

Fongolio

hearingimpared wrote: »

I love this place and have put my heart and soul into it and would hate to see it shut down or made into a sterile environment.

First let me say welcome back Joe!

I've read all that is written here and imo this is what is needed:

1. More effective moderation. For the most part Mark has done a very good job but I think even he will acknowledge he has been guilty of some of the things mentioned in Al's post. Enough said about that.

2. One or two more mods. We don't need a bunch. Mark, Patrick and maybe two more will more than suffice.

3. SELF-POLICING Don't take troll bait. Don't be rude. Don't use toilet humor. Don't talk down about Emotiva, Bose, Monster Cable, etc. etc. And if think that your $2000/ft cables are hooey, ignore me! It's just an opinion. There is never a winner in these fights. NEVER.

4. As George Grand so wisely said "Use the ignore feature". If someone really annoys you and you really want to tell them...put them on ignore. Problem solved. There is no need to tell them they are idiots. They won't hear you anyway.

5. Patience, tolerance, and understanding with newbies. Many newcomers have very little knowledge on a lot of audio subjects we cover here. Give them time to learn. Many newbies also think they know it all. Let them think that. After a while they will realize there is a lot to be learned or very little. They will either stay and learn or leave because there is nothing to learn. We don't need to chase them away either way.

6. Just because you have 8,000 posts STOP PONTIFICATING!! The air of superiority from some long time or high post count members is sickening. Just because you have a wealth of knowledge doesn't make my opinion count less. Some of the most brilliant minds in history stayed at University's in order to pass that knowledge on. They didn't stay to show all the new students what superior intellect they had. Pass on your knowledge. Do not force it in a condescending way.

That is what I think is needed. A little more than 2 cents worth but I'm good with that

Kelvin

adam2434

First - thanks to Polk for supporting this forum. It's a very friendly and helpful place 95+ per cent of the time.

The majority of negative stuff around here would be avoided we all chose to ignore certain posts and chose to be civil when posting. It's not that hard to disagree with someone and still be civil or to ignore someone if you think they are baiting.

Others have said the same thing, but to me it's really that simple.

It's the baiting, bullying, bashing, piling on, and pissing contests that get old and serve no purpose. I think it's totally appropriate for Polk to set the tone they want for their forum by increasing mod involvement. That will get folks' attention and will make clear the type of stuff that won't be tolerated.