An important message from the Management

steveinaz

These forums have incredible social power. Take a look at both the Glock and Ruger forums. Both have stiff social/etiquette rules, and are wildly successful---large memberships. People like a forum minus the drama and constant bickering, and EGO's. They adapt pretty quick, or they leave. Both are moderated well, and rules enforced consistently.

concealer404

shawn474 wrote: »

We all definitely have the capacity to "fix" our own behavior. Beyond that, let the chips fall where they may. Whatever happens, happens. At least then those people will know they did what they could do heed Al's request and make this a better forum.

Like I said, I don't disagree that more moderators could help. I just don't think they will change the people who really are part of the problem.

I don't think it matters if they change or not. If they change, they stay. If they don't, then there's the door.

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

AudioGenics

that appears to be enforcement....

Matt34

steveinaz wrote: »

These forums have incredible social power. Take a look at both the Glock and Ruger forums. Both have stiff social/etiquette rules, and are wildly successful---large memberships. People like a forum minus the drama and constant bickering, and EGO's. They adapt pretty quick, or they leave. Both are moderated well, and rules enforced consistently.

100% agreed, great forum models.

ALL212

I am obvously a newbie here based on my rating but I'm a tad over 50% of the way to being 100 years old - I've had a stereo since I was in Jr. High - no, I didn't have to ask Mr. Edison to wire my house.

I'd like to place a vote to keep the forums here - modify them if need be but please, don't remove them. I've found invaluable information here and found some friends as well. I don't like the deliberate baiting on topics nor do I like the poor behavior of some of the folks that travel through here but - I do know the difference between a troll and a valueable contributing member and how to interact with them appropriately.

Jstas for President. Good common sense post, thanks!

devani

concealer404 wrote: »

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

its like people who needs to lose weight for health concerns....it's alot harder to actually change....

try telling a smoker friend to quit smoking...

even if it matter their health and even their life, no they won't change

shawn474

concealer404 wrote: »

I don't think it matters if they change or not. If they change, they stay. If they don't, then there's the door.

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

I agree; essentially we are all stating the same point. The bottom line is to behave ourselves. We don't need more moderators to tell us how to behave. Really, we don't need more moderators. What people perceive as a lack of moderation might just be that the mods were giving all of us the benfit of the doubt. That now flies out the window with Al's request. So the answer is simple, behave ourselves, let the current mods do their job and see what happens. Post where appropriate and stay out of stuff that could lead to trouble. The mods (new or old; 15 or 3) will take care of enforcing the rules. It's the old chicken or the egg argument. Did the forum deteriorate because of a lack of moderation or because we didn't respect the rules that have been laid out and accepted as a member?

steveinaz

Devani-
If its that tough for someone to be respectful of other peoples opinions, they probably aren't very successful in any social situation.

Of all the activity that goes on here at CP, I would say 97% of it is positive, about 3% negative (and I am here practically every day). I'm not sure what the hope is on a forum this large.

I've stated my solutions, I'm done here.

shack

I've stayed out of this for the most part. (I'm still amazed how people get bent over something said on an internet fourm...but I digress)

I truly hope that the vast majority of "fixes" proposed in this thread are ignored by the administration. The only thing I would like to see is more moderation and enforcement of the rules as Polk Audio sees fit. Not what is "fair"...but whatever PA determines them to be. If the mods ban someone. It's done. If they shut down a topic. It's done. Then PA should then ignore all the BS that follows those decisions. They need to take control of THEIR forum.

IF this forum remains open...and IF I continue to participate under whatever changes that transpire...I doubt I will change much of anything I do or have done. To the best of my recollection I have never been warned or put on probation (maybe super secret probation that I wasn't aware of). I make a jab every now and then but I don't take it personal. If I see BS...I will call it BS and move on. If I see something blatantly stupid...I say so and move on. If someone asks for opinions/advice/help...I will give them...defend them...and move on. I would be willing to bet that I have one of the largest ignore lists on the forum. I suggest others think about doing the same.

I hope the forum remains in relatively the same form it is now. It would be a shame to lose it or for it to become a watered down shell of it's past. If either of those occur...so be it...life goes on. I have made lots of good friends here...and those friendships for the most part will endure even if CP disappears.

In summary: IMO more mods with the authority, power and determination to enforce Polk Audio's RULES.

phuz

Steve and shack pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Self policing will not work. A clear set of rules and swift, objective, public action is needed. Everything else will fall into place after that.

People know the rules, they just don't follow them because there are no consequences except in extreme cases. A true code of conduct/expectations, and mods, can make it happen.

obieone

In the Navy, we had a saying: "Don't NUKE it!", which means, don't over complicate a simple stiuation. Ya'll NEED to read my signature, and learn how to use the IGNORE feature.

As far as the FM goes, yeah, I think it should be 100 posts, and 30 days probation.

As far as a certain individual, pretending that they're writing for the New Yorker, put them on IGNORE, and move along.
Ditto for any thread with Emotiva in the title.

It's not hard folks. Stop nuking it:rolleyes:

bruss

shack wrote: »

They need to take control of THEIR forum.

My thoughts exactly.

Face

Shack is dead on.

devani

bruss wrote: »

My thoughts exactly.

well, they are certainly gonig to shut down if people don't behave....that's control

amulford

Okay, I have read everything up to now and have thought through what I am about to say. Take it for what you will.

Many of you do not know who I am. Many of you do. Those that do know I am a fair, no BS, no nonsense person who calls it like he sees it. There is no sugarcoating it with me, but I do strive not to be particularly offensive to anyone. Basically I would like to treat others as I would be treated. That seems to have been lost by some as of late.

I have been a member of this community for going on seven years. As such, although I sometimes have drifted away from the boards for one reason or another, this little piece of cyberspace has become somewhat a part of my life. For that fact, it does matter to me what happens to it.

I have made some very good friends on these boards. To be honest (and I am sure this is true for quite a few of us) I believe if I wanted to travel to almost any part of this country (and some parts of the world) I could count on someone here to allow me to enjoy their hospitality (as would happen to them if they came near to me). That is the nature of many of the personalities who are members in this community. I liken it to having an extended family.

I have made some acquaintances with which I would rather not associate myself. And I admit to informing these people of that in no uncertain terms. Let's face it, not everyone is going to get along with everyone. It's just the nature of the human psyche and the world is a more interesting place because of it.

But the truth of the matter is that we are here due to the courtesy of Polk Audio. Yes this Forum could be and has proven itself a tremendously successful marketing tool and technical resource to a myriad group worldwide. Be that as it may, sound business strategy will not allow it’s existence if it ceases to thrive in the form for which it was intended. And at that juncture, my good people are where we are now.

You have been forewarned, time has come for a change, and that change is forthcoming. The status quo of this forum, while in my opinion was rather good, apparently has not lived up expectations. Therefore it shall not remain. We have ourselves to blame for this unfortunate circumstance, collectively, whether you wish to hear it or not. Finger pointing is irrelevant now. The damage is done.

There have been some good suggestions as to what we could do to salvage the situation. I have formulated some of my own. The largest change, however, must come from within our community on an individual basis. That means you and me, folks. If it doesn’t, this will be a lost place and you will have no one but yourself to blame. That loss would be significant, for there is a wealth of knowledge and technical expertise residing here you would be hard pressed to find elsewhere.

In my opinion, the rules as such very adequate and do not need to change. (The fact that they are even necessary is a sad fact, but I digress). The flexibility of the present form allows every one to act in an adult manner. The addition of some membership requirements may be made. That should help with the spammers.

I could see the addition of a couple moderators, non paid volunteers, to assist the present group. This group could be given the privileges of issuing warnings, meting out short term suspensions (only for flagrant violations) and closing threads. Any long term suspensions and lifetime bans should be a collective decision based on research and record, with at least three in agreement. That would stifle any outcry of personal vendetta and democratize the process.

Common respect, proper decorum and forum etiquette should be followed at all times by all parties. We have a counter that was developed for flea market transactions; perhaps a simpler model could be developed for one for tracking progressive discipline. My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via PM
Second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
Third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
Fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
Fifth offense- a lifetime ban

These rules are the same for everyone, as are the punishments. Your asked to conduct yourselves in a manner befitting the title of adult. If you can’t, hit the pike because we don’t need you. Pure and simple…

Al, you do what you think is best. While I selfishly would like to see this place continue as it is, I fully understand the need for something to be done.

Anthony Mulford

Knucklehead

I just dont get it.....since Ive been here it seems to me that Polk has empowered the users of this forum to dictate the direction here, we have some that want more mods, more rules, honestly I dont think that is what Mark or Al is looking for here. I think the "ignore" reccomendation is probably the best yet. I couldnt imagine being a mod and getting complaints from people on an AUDIO forum on a daily basis. They want us to behave or leave...plain and simple, its not really that complicated. David

Pauly

^^^ Well said Anthony

Pauly

Vette C6.r

I woke up and did my daily routine today. Got my coffee and went onto the Polk Forum. When I clicked on my "favorites" list to get to this website my brouser for some reason didn't connect and gave an error. Well needless to say I freaked out thinking that the site got shut down. Re-clicked and it appeared.

For those few seconds I felt how it feels for this to be shut down. Not a good feeling.

shawn474

amulford wrote: »

okay, i have read everything up to now and have thought through what i am about to say. Take it for what you will.

Many of you do not know who i am. Many of you do. Those that do know i am a fair, no bs, no nonsense person who calls it like he sees it. There is no sugarcoating it with me, but i do strive not to be particularly offensive to anyone. Basically i would like to treat others as i would be treated. That seems to have been lost by some as of late.

I have been a member of this community for going on seven years. As such, although i sometimes have drifted away from the boards for one reason or another, this little piece of cyberspace has become somewhat a part of my life. For that fact, it does matter to me what happens to it.

I have made some very good friends on these boards. To be honest (and i am sure this is true for quite a few of us) i believe if i wanted to travel to almost any part of this country (and some parts of the world) i could count on someone here to allow me to enjoy their hospitality (as would happen to them if they came near to me). That is the nature of many of the personalities who are members in this community. I liken it to having an extended family.

I have made some acquaintances with which i would rather not associate myself. And i admit to informing these people of that in no uncertain terms. Let's face it, not everyone is going to get along with everyone. It's just the nature of the human psyche and the world is a more interesting place because of it.

But the truth of the matter is that we are here due to the courtesy of polk audio. Yes this forum could be and has proven itself a tremendously successful marketing tool and technical resource to a myriad group worldwide. Be that as it may, sound business strategy will not allow it’s existence if it ceases to thrive in the form for which it was intended. And at that juncture, my good people are where we are now.

You have been forewarned, time has come for a change, and that change is forthcoming. The status quo of this forum, while in my opinion was rather good, apparently has not lived up expectations. Therefore it shall not remain. We have ourselves to blame for this unfortunate circumstance, collectively, whether you wish to hear it or not. Finger pointing is irrelevant now. The damage is done.

There have been some good suggestions as to what we could do to salvage the situation. I have formulated some of my own. The largest change, however, must come from within our community on an individual basis. That means you and me, folks. If it doesn’t, this will be a lost place and you will have no one but yourself to blame. That loss would be significant, for there is a wealth of knowledge and technical expertise residing here you would be hard pressed to find elsewhere.

In my opinion, the rules as such very adequate and do not need to change. (the fact that they are even necessary is a sad fact, but i digress). The flexibility of the present form allows every one to act in an adult manner. The addition of some membership requirements may be made. That should help with the spammers.

I could see the addition of a couple moderators, non paid volunteers, to assist the present group. This group could be given the privileges of issuing warnings, meting out short term suspensions (only for flagrant violations) and closing threads. Any long term suspensions and lifetime bans should be a collective decision based on research and record, with at least three in agreement. That would stifle any outcry of personal vendetta and democratize the process.

Common respect, proper decorum and forum etiquette should be followed at all times by all parties. We have a counter that was developed for flea market transactions; perhaps a simpler model could be developed for one for tracking progressive discipline. My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via pm
second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
fifth offense- a lifetime ban

these rules are the same for everyone, as are the punishments. Your asked to conduct yourselves in a manner befitting the title of adult. If you can’t, hit the pike because we don’t need you. Pure and simple…

al, you do what you think is best. While i selfishly would like to see this place continue as it is, i fully understand the need for something to be done.

Anthony mulford

best....................................post.......................................yet!

danger boy

amulford wrote: »

My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via PM
Second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
Third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
Fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
Fifth offense- a lifetime ban

Anthony Mulford

Yikes! Sorry Anthony, I love ya man.. but that's to soft for the hijinx that goes on in this forum.

Maybe I would rather rule with an iron fist as opposed to a hug. No offense Anthony, but you need inject some pain so people get the idea that this current BS will stop now. Make it sting a lot.

In case anyone was late to my post several pages back here is my idea.

one warning, the next time there is no warning, you are banned for life. No second chances. You eff up, and try to continue to be a PITA, you're gone. Plain an simple.

Anthony, really enjoyed your well thought out post, except for the punishment part of it.. I felt it was way to lax.

Danger Boi

heiney9

Shack hit all the good points. That's the only way it can be done while still keeping the integrity of the current forum intact, which I think works for the most part.

jz0h4d

I have to agree that this forum needs some policing.
I'm a new comer here and have been called a troll for not agreeing with someone's opinion.
I have been an electronic technician for 30 years and a musician for over 40 years.

doggie750

I love this forum and I hate the haters who barks immaturely but it is the least of my concern. These AHoles are everywhere offline and online, neighbors, co-workers, classmates, supervisors....etc. Again, there's better things out there to focus on and live life. So for the AHoles out there, keep representing your un-educated, immature traits.......JUST so you know, the moment you talk sh>>T, I skip.

MUCH RESPECT TO THE OP....and the FATHER of this FORUM.;)

exalted512

danger boy wrote: »

Yikes! Sorry Anthony, I love ya man.. but that's to soft for the hijinx that goes on in this forum.

Maybe I would rather rule with an iron fist as opposed to a hug. No offense Anthony, but you need inject some pain so people get the idea that this current BS will stop now. Make it sting a lot.

In case anyone was late to my post several pages back here is my idea.

one warning, the next time there is no warning, you are banned for life. No second chances. You eff up, and try to continue to be a PITA, you're gone. Plain an simple.

Anthony, really enjoyed your well thought out post, except for the punishment part of it.. I felt it was way to lax.

Danger Boi

I dont agree. I like Anthony's model, minus step 1. Go straight to a public warning, that way everyone knows what happened. If it was something really bad, then yes, move it up a notch.

I think a big problem is the lack of going public. Someone sees some guy saying one thing bad...that guy gets a PM saying 'no no no!' But no one else sees it...then others chime in thinking its okay, he didnt get punished for it, ill do it too.

I say make it public, hell, start a subforum in the hall of shame for it. Everyone who ever has been warned, put it in the forum--who got warned and what for. Hell, change their little description from 'polkologist' to 'strike one'

I know its been said 100x, but I think moderation...PUBLIC moderation is the key.

You think if i didnt see cops I wouldnt speed? Same theory. People need to SEE moderation to let them know someone is always watching...you screw up, youre going to get punished.
-Cody

inspiredsports

This is a tough problem.

I came here just 2-1/2 years ago looking to rekindle a passion that had laid dormant for nearly 20 years as my wife and I brought our 4 children to their high school / college years where (slightly) less maintenance is required.

I've become extremely dedicated to the group as the information gained here has been world class. And I've grown to feel protective of the integrity of this great information (and the superlative sound emanating from my tweaked 2B's and SRS 2's are a great testament to how good this place is). I simply couldn't have improved my system so quickly without this group.

Personally, when I see a new arrival with 2 or 3 posts immediately offer something for sale or enter into controversial thread, it makes me think twice. That person could be a pure genius, but their lack of "getting a feel for how things work" sure raises a red flag. It also seems this type of poster rarely has a question about Polk products. In many cases it seems like a challenge to the great wealth of good information that can be had here with no stake in the game.

I believe an extremely high percentage of the problems Polk management hears about start in this way.

I guess in a sense it is the folks who love this forum the most trying to protect the immense integrity of the forum that causes some of the problems.

danger boy

jz0h4d wrote: »

I have to agree that this forum needs some policing.
I'm a new comer here and have been called a troll for not agreeing with someone's opinion.
I have been an electronic technician for 30 years and a musician for over 40 years.

troll


in all seriousness... welcome to the club. it's a good place to hang out.. and with your 30 yrs of experience.. i'm sure you have plenty to contribute.

the thing is.. you get out of this forum what you put into it.. be an active member and the rewards are endless.

RuSsMaN

Thanks for all the ideas ladies and gents, stay close to the channel over the next few days for breaking news from the front lines.

Now back to your regularly scheduled audio program.