Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,100
    edited March 2009
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    a_mattison wrote: »
    You kidding?! Then We'd all be modifying the air in our houses to transmit the radio frequencies better.

    It all comes down to proper barametric pressure and correct humidity levels and well as proper "line of sight" placement.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited March 2009
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    I replaced all the caps and resistors in my wireless router, and upgraded the antennas with Cardas wire. I find that the colors on the screen of my laptop are much more life like and have increased depth and solidity.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
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    dkg999 wrote: »
    I replaced all the caps and resistors in my wireless router, and upgraded the antennas with Cardas wire. I find that the colors on the screen of my laptop are much more life like and have increased depth and solidity.
    Now that's funny!
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
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    I've been reading Sterophile for quite some years now and I don't remember any such statement.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited March 2009
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    I honestly wonder if people sometimes just say things to get a rise out of us.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,530
    edited March 2009
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    As with any hobby, if you can't "geek out" on it, what's the purpose?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited March 2009
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    Topics for noobs (I include myself here because GG still hasn't decreed me a non-newb) to avoid:

    1. Spending good money on interconnects/speaker wire is a rip off
    2. Anything Bose
    3. Anything Monster Cable
    4. Why are the long time members so mean to noobs?
    5. Emotiva ('nuff said)
    6. Any topic after more than 5 beer (or equivalent)
    7. Stupid meaningless non-audio related polls

    Did I miss anything?
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2009
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    CowboyRJB2 wrote: »
    I used to subscribe to STEREOPHILE magazine. In one issue they tested extremelt high end, expensive speaker cables. it gets to a point that the human ear cant tell differences. They also hooked up the same test speakers with heavy gage LAMP WIRE they bought from a local hardware store and there wasnt any incredible difference, audibly, except on their meters


    That might be true, but I have a hard time believing it. I am currently subscribed to Sterophile, and if there is any publication that would appreciate speaker wire, it is this one. These guys wax on and on about how CD player X has a nuance of improvement over CD player Y, or how speaker A is just a tiny bit better than speaker B, that it is hard to believe they would dimiss speaker wires.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • hifiaudio
    hifiaudio Posts: 37
    edited March 2009
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    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Interconnects are where to start. I could hear those changes without trying
    very hard. Speaker cable changes seem to kinda sneak up on you.
    With that said, I was using a cheap 14ga bulk wire between the bottom
    and top halves of the GNP's (two piece speakers).
    Changing out to a better cable between them was very noticable.
    AS always, your milage may vary.

    I agree interconnects are the best bang for the buck improvement. Don't belive me. try these in your system. At this price if you are using any cables under fifty bucks for a 1 meter pair, try these.. In MY system these are the best. Throw those rat shack and monster crap out.
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-652
    for $15.00 it is a huge improvement...
    Yes you can buy better, but for a whole lot more money...
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2009
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    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    That said it is by denifition a system and any weakness is systemic to the system.

    or

    as MadMax says.........everything matters.

    Finally, an excerpt from a reliable source. ;)
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited March 2009
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    H9 and DKG, etc... Did we ever compare the Canare wires I have to the Signal Cable Bi-wires I have in the basement on my LSi's? I don't remember that we did, but damn, we should have.

    Has anybody on this thread used the Signal Cable bi-wire cables? I have them in my HT right now on Rti70's, do I don't expect to be able to hear much of a difference. When I get time I might tinker around with the LSi's and see how they sound.

    (trying to derail in a positive direction....)
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited March 2009
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    Do you have the Signal classic or Ultra bi-wires? I have a couple of sets of the Ultra bi-wires. The classic is a touch more revealing and open than the Canare. The Ultra's are more forward, more detailed, and throw a lot bigger soundstage than the Canare. That said, it's hard to beat the Canare S411 for the price.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,922
    edited March 2009
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    Fongolio wrote: »
    Topics for noobs (I include myself here because GG still hasn't decreed me a non-newb) to avoid:

    1. Spending good money on interconnects/speaker wire is a rip off
    2. Anything Bose
    3. Anything Monster Cable
    4. Why are the long time members so mean to noobs?
    5. Emotiva ('nuff said)
    6. Any topic after more than 5 beer (or equivalent)
    7. Stupid meaningless non-audio related polls

    Did I miss anything?

    LOL.......damn, I think you got. You shall go far here.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited March 2009
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    Keiko wrote: »
    Threads related to rap music, Richard Simmons, Sweatin' to the Oldies and any poll or topic related to Rosie O'donnell and Roseanne Barr. :p

    Agreed. I have one more as well. Any posted picture with any "male" club member wearing Daisy Dukes that just don't cover anywhere near enough.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited March 2009
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    Fongolio wrote: »
    Agreed. I have one more as well. Any posted picture with any "male" club member wearing Daisy Dukes that just don't cover anywhere near enough.

    Yeah, I have some gripes about that one myself. Rest assured though, that I don't own, and in fact, have never owned, a pair of Daisy Dukes. As much as some of these guys seem to like that idea...lol
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,947
    edited March 2009
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    This is far more exciting than the Emotiva Story, or even the Ben & Bob Carver thing! Where have I been? Why did nobody tell me? But as for this post:
    daboyz wrote: »
    I wish speaker wire didn't matter. It would've saved me alot of time and money. You need to check out an RAS get together and you'd realize that there are huge differences in cabling. If you can't hear it then God bless.
    I don't think turning up at an RAS meeting would do anyone any good, since you are all known to be totally drunk after the first five minutes, and couldn't possibly carry out a coherent listening demonstration of any description. Heck, you probably can't even see the spearkers by then, much less listen to them!
    Alea jacta est!
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  • LessisNevermore
    LessisNevermore Posts: 1,519
    edited March 2009
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    Kex wrote: »
    I don't think turning up at an RAS meeting would do anyone any good, since you are all known to be totally drunk after the first five minutes, and couldn't possibly carry out a coherent listening demonstration of any description. Heck, you probably can't even see the spearkers by then, much less listen to them!

    This is a bald-faced LIE sir, and I demand a retraction!
    It took over twenty minutes, we're professionals, and I resent the insinuation of RAS members as lightweights.



    (LOOK, Boobies!):D
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
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    Lol!
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2009
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    And someone actually whined about an informative post on tree-trimming.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • max997
    max997 Posts: 33
    edited March 2009
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    everything plays a part and I am of the belief that your system is only as good as its weakest component so I am a big fan of aftermarket speaker and power cables
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited March 2009
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    tcrossma wrote: »
    I've never seen a speaker cable that resembled Cat 5 in any way, shape or form. Not saying that one doesn't exist, but I've not seen one.
    Well open your eyes cause some of the rave reviews are based on cat 5 cable speaker wires:cool:
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited March 2009
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    Ok been around this hobby for 25 years.Most of this speaker cable -interconect stuff is ****!! Yes if you use grandpa's twisted pair flex cable made for light bulbs you will hear a difference but if you buy good quality 99% oxy free pure copper cable 12 gauge and up its gonna sound good! Will its sound different with single strand compared to multi strand..yes but different is not always better so maybe the answer is that you can tweak some of your systems short falls with different sounding cable..tired of this ****! Same goes for inter connects spent thousands in years gone buy and your ear tricks you make subtle changes sound different = better because thats what you want to hear after forking 200usd for inter connects.YOU GUYS HAVE SOME SERIOUS TWEAKING TO DO BECAUSE THIS MEANS THAT SIGNAL TRAVELING FROM YOUR CD ON **** PCB TRACK THEN GOES THROUGH YOUR 250USD+ INTERCONNECT ONLY TO RESUME ITS SIGNAL ON ANOTHER CHINESE **** PCB TRACK UNTIL THE SPEAKER OUTS HAHAHA THEN WHEN IT REACHES YOUR SPEAKER AFTER TRAVELING THROUGH YOUR 1000USD + SPEAKER CABLE IT RUNS THROUGH YOUR KOREAN PASSIVE CROSSOVER WITH MEASLY TRACKS TO YOUR SPEAKERS WITH YOUR SPEAKER MANUFACTURERS **** CABLE TO THE SPEAKER HAHAHA GIVE YOURSELVES A BREAK GUYS FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2009
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    seafire wrote: »
    Ok been around this hobby for 25 years.Most of this speaker cable -interconect stuff is ****!! Yes if you use grandpa's twisted pair flex cable made for light bulbs you will hear a difference but if you buy good quality 99% oxy free pure copper cable 12 gauge and up its gonna sound good! Will its sound different with single strand compared to multi strand..yes but different is not always better so maybe the answer is that you can tweak some of your systems short falls with different sounding cable..tired of this ****

    I have tried big heavy wire that sucked the life out of the highs, and killed the sound stage. Please educate us more.

    Oops I forgot.
    Yawn...
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Ender
    Ender Posts: 603
    edited March 2009
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    I guess, relatively speaking, the woman is ok looking. But objectively speaking, I think she's actually kinda ugly.
    Keiko wrote: »
    I dunno Fong, depends on how ya look at it. And ya gotta admit, Curt fills out them Daisy Dukes pretty good. Maybe too good. :D

    Perhaps this analogy can also work in a cable debate. For example:

    817ecb567f.jpg
    Monster Cable

    6b5e7252c7.jpg
    MIT

    Now, armed with this information, everyone can clearly see how cables can and do make a difference. Any questions? ;)
    SDA 1C, SDA 2A, SDA SRS 2, CMT-340SE, Swan M200MKII, Swan D1080MKII, Behringer MS40

    Outlaw Audio M2200 x2, GFA 555 II, BGW 750C

    GDA 700, Outlaw Audio Model 990, Sansa Fuze, X-Fi Platinum Fatality
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited March 2009
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    seafire wrote: »
    Well open your eyes cause some of the rave reviews are based on cat 5 cable speaker wires:cool:

    Yes, I now realize there must be speaker cables based on Cat-5 -- I've just never seen them.
    seafire wrote: »
    Will its sound different with single strand compared to multi strand..yes but different is not always better

    But sometimes different IS better. Sometimes it's worse. That right there is the justification some have for experimenting with different cables.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
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    Well,

    Here we go 'again'?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited March 2009
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    dkg999 wrote: »
    Do you have the Signal classic or Ultra bi-wires? I have a couple of sets of the Ultra bi-wires. The classic is a touch more revealing and open than the Canare. The Ultra's are more forward, more detailed, and throw a lot bigger soundstage than the Canare. That said, it's hard to beat the Canare S411 for the price.
    LOL tell me did you remember to rewire all your audio equipments electronic circuit boards tinsel tracks as well?? Your audio equipment pcb tracks are thinner than a human hair -best you start soldering with your signal classic!:eek:Rather donate the money to an orphanage at least they will feel see hear the difference
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited March 2009
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    cnh wrote: »
    Well,

    Here we go 'again'?

    cnh
    Why cause read my posts...think about it and reply:D
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,530
    edited March 2009
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    seafire wrote: »
    Ok been around this hobby for 25 years.Most of this speaker cable -interconect stuff is ****!! Yes if you use grandpa's twisted pair flex cable made for light bulbs you will hear a difference but if you buy good quality 99% oxy free pure copper cable 12 gauge and up its gonna sound good! Will its sound different with single strand compared to multi strand..yes but different is not always better so maybe the answer is that you can tweak some of your systems short falls with different sounding cable..tired of this ****! Same goes for inter connects spent thousands in years gone buy and your ear tricks you make subtle changes sound different = better because thats what you want to hear after forking 200usd for inter connects.YOU GUYS HAVE SOME SERIOUS TWEAKING TO DO BECAUSE THIS MEANS THAT SIGNAL TRAVELING FROM YOUR CD ON **** PCB TRACK THEN GOES THROUGH YOUR 250USD+ INTERCONNECT ONLY TO RESUME ITS SIGNAL ON ANOTHER CHINESE **** PCB TRACK UNTIL THE SPEAKER OUTS HAHAHA THEN WHEN IT REACHES YOUR SPEAKER AFTER TRAVELING THROUGH YOUR 1000USD + SPEAKER CABLE IT RUNS THROUGH YOUR KOREAN PASSIVE CROSSOVER WITH MEASLY TRACKS TO YOUR SPEAKERS WITH YOUR SPEAKER MANUFACTURERS **** CABLE TO THE SPEAKER HAHAHA GIVE YOURSELVES A BREAK GUYS FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!

    This is why I recommend that you get your system basics together first, then **** around with cabling. No cable is gonna cure sub-par equipment, that's for sure--BUT a poor cable is not going to fully exploit good equipments' capabilities.

    In reference to your "$1000 speaker cable going into a Korean made crossover" comment; anyone who would do that needs in education on hi-fi in general.

    Question: Do you use the 69 cent IC's that came with your equipment?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited March 2009
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    ben62670 wrote: »
    I have tried big heavy wire that sucked the life out of the highs, and killed the sound stage. Please educate us more.

    Oops I forgot.
    Yawn...
    Well Ben you tell me how signal traveling on pcb boards break out into this signal highway of gold only to be squashed back into most **** passive crossover tracks ...let your own logic answer your question and I am listening if you care to reply:rolleyes:
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