Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,908
    edited March 2009
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    I personally find it funny that those who claim cables,gear,don't make a difference,yet join an online audio club.To discuss what??
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    edited March 2009
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    If you feel as though you haven't been given a good explanation, see my post again from page 3:

    steveinaz wrote: »
    Cables are an electrical component, much like a resistor or capacitor. Different topologies and materials can affect the tonal character of a cable; but 2 things must be true first: 1) Your system has to have the resolution necessary to exploit this change, 2) You have to have the ability to hear the change(s). Now, some cables will show little or no difference when compared, some show a substantial degree of change.

    Think of cables as very fine tone controls. Having said all this, a more expensive cable is not necessarily a better cable in your system. Only your ears and particular taste in sound can determine that.

    In my experience, one of the biggest changes comes when replacing a generic multi-strand speaker cable. These cables, (in my system) have always sounded "hashy" and lacked good delineation of instruments and performers, especially in the midrange/treble---like a photograph that is out of focus. Now multi-strand cables that have each conductor maintaining it's own insulation along the run---a different story.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,405
    edited March 2009
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    Good morning Jeb. I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to technobabblekid. I was just advising you to try out some new cables with an open mind.

    That said, let me offer you my experience with speaker cables. I did the Rat Shack thing, the Home Depot thing trying to find the biggest and baddest cable I could find. The only notable change I heard was that the bass got a little better when going from the smallest wires to the biggest wires. Now, I must have tried 8 more sub $200.00 cables after that and while others may have noticed a change, I sure as hell did not. Maybe I just kept trying the wrong cables. Now, my final set of low cost [roughly $220.00] was AQ X2 speaker cable that made no change initially but when I added silver solder and precision 'nanners to each of the ends? Ok, this was a surprise. There was a slight change across the board.

    Obviously, for me, there was proof in the pudding right there. What I had learned so far is that the smaller the gauge of wire can yield some change and that improving the connections can yield even better results. That was all the proof I needed to actually go out and spend some dough on some real SC's. I ran across a deal here on the forum to purchase a set of AQ CV-8's with a 72v BP upgrade for less than 1/2 of retail. I figured what the hell? Worth the shot considering it was just a small fraction of what I had blown on my rig at that point, I'll try it.

    A buddy of mine from California and I were listening to music all morning long until the cables arrived and we went ahead and hooked them up and played some of the selections that we had listened too earlier on that morning. All I can say is that within 14-15 seconds, I had a smile from here to the Mississippi. My bud was in the sweet spot and I was about 7 feet off axis and I could tell that there was a cleanness, more details, tight-**** bass, smoother mids and an extension on the highs I had never heard before. I knew almost instantaneously that I liked what I heard.

    It wasn't until I sat down in the sweet spot that everything just came into focus though. This is the point to where after about a minute of listening I jumped up, high-fived my buddy and started literally dancing in the room, yelling "I can finally hear what the F they have heard all this time!!!". What was I so happy about? I was happy that for the first time in my life, I heard what other people actually had been talking about. I heard it. That was why I was so happy. I finally heard it! Now I could talk about how they affect the sound stage, how you could tailor specific sounds or flavors to your rig, talk about the different subtleties that were always in the music that I hadn't ever heard before.....but were always there.

    Since then, I try to get as many flavors of SC's in my rig as possible. Some sound great on my rig, some sound like I'm taking a step back in my audio journey. Now keep in mind that all throughout this time, the better the components in my system got, the more noticeable the changes in SC's got. Also, by the time I tried out my first "real" set of SC's I had already invested heavily in IC's because I learned about them waaaaay before I started getting serious about SC's.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2009
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Dude, not to jump all over you........but are you serious?

    Ooops. Sorry. Of course I was serious. As I said earlier, if you pay attention in these threads sometimes you can actually learn something. His answer was one of the more informative posts in this thread.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    Well glad to see every body going nuts on this....LOL

    All i was trying to say ..once agian....is you can get better for cheaper.

    Bottom line.

    OK I will try to explane all this...once again. You can believe what you want..but this is real world.

    NOW....there are only so many companies that REALLY make ..ANY kind of cable. About 3, but I'm not sure on that. I believe Beldan is one of them.

    Basically these people only make X type cable...X gauge as a stranded type cable, then the cables for computer stuff... 5 or 6 type. Plus other stuff, but nothing to talk about for this.

    THEN the smaller cable people buy this in bulk....probably at even at the most a Buck a foot.

    Then they take this cable....put on there own wraps...which may or may not have some kind of ground. Can be anything. They can do anything they want.
    They put on there own heat shrink....the gold jacks......and then charge you ... whatever.

    NOW...I'm not taking about some just radio shack 16 gauge cable here.
    I'm talking about some heavy Beldan 12 gauge cable in heavy wrap 99% full copper.

    If you really think that....some cable that you payd mega bucks for...really dose something better for you.
    Good for you. the basic cable is all the same...sorry.

    Once again it's all up to the ear..........
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    NOW....there are only so many companies that REALLY make ..ANY kind of cable. About 3, but I'm not sure on that. I believe Beldan is one of them.

    Basically these people only make X type cable...X gauge as a stranded type cable, then the cables for computer stuff... 5 or 6 type. Plus other stuff, but nothing to talk about for this.

    THEN the smaller cable people buy this in bulk....probably at even at the most a Buck a foot.

    Then they take this cable....put on there own wraps...which may or may not have some kind of ground. Can be anything. They can do anything they want.
    They put on there own heat shrink....the gold jacks......and then charge you ... whatever.

    NOW...I'm not taking about some just radio shack 16 gauge cable here.
    I'm talking about some heavy Beldan 12 gauge cable in heavy wrap 99% full copper.

    Where are you getting this information?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
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    Bobt,

    Are you messing with page 6?
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    What is it you don't get????......What, you think these little overpriced cable companies have there own Copper foundery????

    There making there own cables from scratch???????

    I've delt with cable companies for years...I know how they work.

    You can believe whatever you want........
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited March 2009
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Dude, not to jump all over you........but are you serious? Use this kind of stuff for a separate thread or there is a function called a PM (private message). This has PM written all over it.

    H9

    Sorry about that...I probably should have at least replied to that with a PM. I had a few beers in me last night, and the thought didn't even occur to me though...lol
    bobt wrote: »
    Well glad to see every body going nuts on this....LOL

    All i was trying to say ..once agian....is you can get better for cheaper.

    Bottom line.

    OK I will try to explane all this...once again. You can believe what you want..but this is real world.

    NOW....there are only so many companies that REALLY make ..ANY kind of cable. About 3, but I'm not sure on that. I believe Beldan is one of them.

    Basically these people only make X type cable...X gauge as a stranded type cable, then the cables for computer stuff... 5 or 6 type. Plus other stuff, but nothing to talk about for this.

    THEN the smaller cable people buy this in bulk....probably at even at the most a Buck a foot.

    Then they take this cable....put on there own wraps...which may or may not have some kind of ground. Can be anything. They can do anything they want.
    They put on there own heat shrink....the gold jacks......and then charge you ... whatever.

    NOW...I'm not taking about some just radio shack 16 gauge cable here.
    I'm talking about some heavy Beldan 12 gauge cable in heavy wrap 99% full copper.

    If you really think that....some cable that you payd mega bucks for...really dose something better for you.
    Good for you. the basic cable is all the same...sorry.

    Once again it's all up to the ear..........

    I'd really like to see where you got this info from. I'm no expert on the subject, but I'd have to guess that there are more than 3 companies that actually make cable.

    Even supposing that the basic cable is all the same, that's not really the point. The point is, that the construction and design of the cable itself can greatly impact SQ...as several people have pointed out earlier in this thread.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    There making there own cables from scratch???????

    http://www.goertzaudio.com/mi.html
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited March 2009
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    F1nut wrote: »
    Ok, I think you and Keiko simply got off on the wrong foot. He's a good guy and like a lot of us will be glad to help if it's clear that a person truly wants help and isn't closed minded about it all.


    I think Jeb just got mixed in with bobot, techknocked and several beers. Welcome aboard Jeb. I was skeptical just 4 short months ago. Today I could buy a nice car with the dollars I've invested in audio since then. The information I've gotten from the guys in this forum have probably saved me as much as I've spent.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    OK..once agian....they DO NOT produce there own wire....what is wrong with you people........they go to about 3 places that do. Yes they can ask them for certain stuff...and they will make it........

    WHAT IS IT YOU DON"T GET????????????
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,405
    edited March 2009
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    You.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    What is it you don't get????......What, you think these little overpriced cable companies have there own Copper foundery????

    There making there own cables from scratch???????

    I've delt with cable companies for years...I know how they work.

    You can believe whatever you want........

    No matter how rude or condecending your reply, you still haven't answered my question.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    OK..once agian....they DO NOT produce there own wire....what is wrong with you people........they go to about 3 places that do. Yes they can ask them for certain stuff...and they will make it........

    WHAT IS IT YOU DON"T GET????????????

    Now you are just tap dancing.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    No problem.....my point was you can get good cables without spending a **** load of money.

    It has gotten way over blown......whatever anybody think's.......is what they like.....don't care.

    Lets just drop it............
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    No I'm not "tap" dancing......what do you want me to tell you?.....I've delt with cable companies for 20 years......what do you want me to tell you???

    How the founerdy works...how the cable is made??? How they wrap this stuff?

    This is way over blown at this point......lets just forget it...
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  • BigMac
    BigMac Posts: 849
    edited March 2009
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    bobt there are lots of places that make all types of wire. Saying there are only really 3 manufacturers out there is showing that you do not know what you are talking about in ANY way. All one has to do is a Google search and one of the very first listings is this http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Industrial_Supplies/Wire_and_Cable/Manufacturers/?b=0 which gives 180 results. You may want to do some research on this before just randomly throwing out uneducated responses.
    DON'T CLICK THIS!!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,857
    edited March 2009
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    BigMac with the TKO!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    Yeah...OK....whatever......you have no clue......there are plenty of people who sell cable....there are only about 3 who really make it......whatever.....
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  • jm1
    jm1 Posts: 618
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    What is it you don't get????......What, you think these little overpriced cable companies have there own Copper foundery????

    There making there own cables from scratch???????

    I've delt with cable companies for years...I know how they work.

    You can believe whatever you want........

    Actually, the last I heard, Harmonic Technology is owned by the company that holds the patent on the OCC process. So they have access to their own foundry.

    Fortunately, Nordost also makes their own cables for audio, medical and the aerospace industries.

    Maybe other members can comment on other companies as well.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
    Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,405
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    Yeah...OK....whatever......you have no clue......there are plenty of people who sell cable....there are only about 3 who really make it......whatever.....
    Those that don't know, don't know they don't know and you sir......don't know.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • BigMac
    BigMac Posts: 849
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    Yeah...OK....whatever......you have no clue......there are plenty of people who sell cable....there are only about 3 who really make it......whatever.....

    Only 3, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......The first page alone has 10 manufacturers of different cable,wire,etc. Imagine how many more manufacturers are on the other 9 pages. And just think, this is from only 1 link. If I spent the time to delve a little deeper down the rabbit hole I am 100% sure I could find so many it would make your head spin. No need though as I think 180 results speaks for itself.:eek:
    DON'T CLICK THIS!!
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    Sorry...but if you don't get it....too bad

    If Harmonic Tech....has there own cable foundery (as the MAJOR company)... and produces medical and other cables.....good for them.

    I would assume then the cables are pretty good...........what is the price?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
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    bobt,

    Chill out, you must know by now that the GREAT CABLE DEBATE has no happy ending. In fact there IS NO ENDING. It really is the NEVER ENDING STORY!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    Yeah...OK....whatever......you have no clue......there are plenty of people who sell cable....there are only about 3 who really make it......whatever.....

    Even after being proven wrong on that fact...you're still bringing it up?:confused:

    Drop it man. You aren't going to change anyones mind.;)
    The nirvana inducer-
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
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    You people just don't understand......you want cable companies......there must be 1200 of them.

    What ever..I give up........you people who have no clue or deal with these people...well you must be right...just becuase you buy an over priced speaker cable.

    Unless you have bought close to 1 million dollors of cable from these people........gee...i don't think you really have a clue.
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,048
    edited March 2009
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    bobt...you really can not even spell
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited March 2009
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    What is it exactly that we don't have a clue about?:confused: You keep saying that...and it's still not making any more sense. You don't want to spend the extra money on cabling because YOU don't think it makes a difference. Just because YOU don't think it makes a difference, doesn't mean that it doesn't make a difference for other people.

    This is an opinionated subject. Some people hear the difference, some don't. Some peoples ears are more sensitive to the little nuances in music, which cables can help to reveal, apparently yours aren't that sensitive. You don't absolutely HAVE to spend big money on cabling to enjoy music. Some people like to have that extra edge.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,405
    edited March 2009
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    bobt wrote: »
    gee...i don't think you really have a clue.

    *In my best Yoda voice* "You know not, you do. For it is you that has no clue".
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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