Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited October 2009
    kawizx9r wrote: »
    Again Jeff, I blame curt for all the bozo's around here :rolleyes: JK lol
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    Did I hear my name? Sorry guys...it's out of my control.

    The thread goes on.:p
    Maybe out of your control, but still your fault ;) If I were you, I'd be ashamed to admit that I lost control :o
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2009
    Question, what is it with non-cable believers that run 'moderate to hi-fi' gear that they can't afford to spend a few bucks on some quality cables? Ignorance scales that much huh.....I think they're only hurting themselves.
    Truck setup
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2009
    kawizx9r wrote: »
    Question, what is it with non-cable believers that run 'moderate to hi-fi' gear that they can't afford to spend a few bucks on some quality cables? Ignorance scales that much huh.....I think they're only hurting themselves.

    Why would we? If you can't hear a difference between product A and product B, but Product A is $50 and Product B is $100, you would logically go with Product A. It is illogical to go for a more expensive product that offers identical performance.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2009
    It is logical to save more money if you indeed didn't hear any results, or better yet results you were happy with. Some of these 'audiophiles' though don't give quality cables a chance, that's who I was aiming at.
    Truck setup
    Alpine 9856
    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
    Polk SR6500
    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited October 2009
    Gaara wrote: »
    Why would we? If you can't hear a difference between product A and product B, but Product A is $50 and Product B is $100, you would logically go with Product A. It is illogical to go for a more expensive product that offers identical performance.
    Hey. sure isn't everyone that shares that logic ;) This discussion definitely proves it! I am convinced that if they were to increase substantially the price of white van speakers, many would fall for it: "You get what you pay for" :p
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2009
    kawizx9r wrote: »
    It is logical to save more money if you indeed didn't hear any results, or better yet results you were happy with. Some of these 'audiophiles' though don't give quality cables a chance, that's who I was aiming at.

    Same could be said on those who haven't tried pricier cables. They don't believe there will be a difference, and therefore see no reason to spend the additional coin. From their perspective anyone who does and believes they hear a difference is a fool, from your perspective they are cheap and ignorant.

    Since neither ever changes there perspective these threads have no point beyond comical value. But that's just IMO YMMV.
    TECHNOKID wrote: »
    Hey. sure isn't everyone that shares that logic ;) This discussion definitely proves it! I am convinced that if they were to increase substantially the price of white van speakers, many would fall for it: "You get what you pay for" :p

    Price anchoring works for plenty of products, actually white van speakers are a perfect example. They show a fancy brochure with a $2500 price, then you can get them right then and there for only $500. You are anchored to the higher price, and believe you are getting quite the deal.

    Kinda like how store put their most expensive products out front, go look at the end caps of a Best Buy for a good example, always the "best" TVs. Of course they don't plan on selling you that TV, they just anchor you at that price and then sell you the less expensive (yet more profit) next down model.

    Same could be said about cables, have a top of the line model that sells for $$$$ that next to no one buys, then the $200 interconnects don't seem as expensive. I mean they have many of the features of the higher end wires, "90% of the performance for 20% of the price" kind a deal.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2009
    I'm not sure I follow the "White Van" logic.

    To my knowledge, "White Van" cables don't have a great reputation, so I don't believe people would rush pay $500 to a vendor selling out of one, no matter what price tags their products bear.

    On the other hand, name brands command high prices because many willingly pay those prices. The products are repeatedly deemed as being worth those prices.

    It's up to you to determine how you are willing to pay for any given cable, but not how I should bge willing to pay. It's essentially an auction, and I will pay as much as I see fit if I believe I am getting a benefit.

    The key is, most use personal listening to make the determination, not price anchoring.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
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    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2009
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    I'm not sure I follow the "White Van" logic.

    To my knowledge, "White Van" cables don't have a great reputation, so I don't believe people would rush pay $500 to a vendor selling out of one, no matter what price tags their products bear.

    On the other hand, name brands command high prices because many willingly pay those prices. The products are repeatedly deemed as being worth those prices.

    It's up to you to determine how you are willing to pay for any given cable, but not how I should be willing to pay. It's essentially an auction, and I will pay as much as I see fit if I believe I am getting a benefit.

    The key is, most use personal listening to make the determination, not price anchoring.

    Never heard of White Van cables. I thought we were talking about White Van Speakers.

    The White Van Speaker Scam usually has brochures or advertisements showing that the speakers they have sell for big money, usually $2k+. They offer to sell it to you for a paltry $500. You know nothing about the speakers beyond what they tell you, but many will buy based on the thought that they are getting $2k speakers for $500, they must be good for $2k. Another example would be Bose.

    Maybe you personally don't buy based price anchoring, but many do, that's the reason they do it. Flip open any audio advisor catalog and I can guarantee you will see some high priced AudioQuest speaker cable on the same page as some that are priced at 20-30% the price. You see the high priced ones first, then the cheaper ones, and then the ole "90% of the performance) spiel.

    As for it not being about price anchoring, I didn't say it was. You said: "if they were to increase substantially the price of white van speakers, many would fall for it". I think the crazy prices are just part of the equation. I would say that VERY few actually buy based on personal experience. You probably meant most on CP, but your average consumer is not very informed.

    And before a bunch of people jump in and say they don't buy based on price, the plural of anecdote is not statistic, nor are we all the "average" consumer.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2009
    Gaara wrote: »
    Never heard of White Van cables. I thought we were talking about White Van Speakers.

    The White Van Speaker Scam usually has brochures or advertisements showing that the speakers they have sell for big money, usually $2k+. They offer to sell it to you for a paltry $500. You know nothing about the speakers beyond what they tell you, but many will buy based on the thought that they are getting $2k speakers for $500, they must be good for $2k. Another example would be Bose.

    Maybe you personally don't buy based price anchoring, but many do, that's the reason they do it. Flip open any audio advisor catalog and I can guarantee you will see some high priced AudioQuest speaker cable on the same page as some that are priced at 20-30% the price. You see the high priced ones first, then the cheaper ones, and then the ole "90% of the performance) spiel.

    As for it not being about price anchoring, I didn't say it was. You said: "if they were to increase substantially the price of white van speakers, many would fall for it". I think the crazy prices are just part of the equation. I would say that VERY few actually buy based on personal experience. You probably meant most on CP, but your average consumer is not very informed.

    And before a bunch of people jump in and say they don't buy based on price, the plural of anecdote is not statistic, nor are we all the "average" consumer.

    Good points. I think I was sleepy when I posted last night. You are right that CP members are better equipped, and somehow Bose manages to thrive too so there must be many who don't listen first to maximize the impact of their buying dollars.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited October 2009
    Some people can, and some can't. If you can't don't. If you can do. I wish I couldn't, but I can, so I do.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited October 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Some people can, and some can't. If you can't don't. If you can do. I wish I couldn't, but I can, so I do.
    Ben

    Yogi Berra couldn't have said it better himself :cool:
    2 Ch.
    Parasound Halo A23 Amp
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Some people can, and some can't. If you can't don't. If you can do. I wish I couldn't, but I can, so I do.
    Ben

    Tragic.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited October 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Some people can, and some can't. If you can't don't. If you can do. I wish I couldn't, but I can, so I do.
    Ben

    That's freakin profound man...lol
    The nirvana inducer-
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited October 2009
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    That's freakin profound man...lol

    I tried to keep it simple. When I first joined I thought these cable beleivers were idiots. Then I tried some used cables on a whim. Also a Polkie came over with some cables. I learned they can make a huge difference. A lot of times I do wish that I was still ignorantly bliss with my late 80's JVC top of the line 2 channel receiver, and my Infinity speakers, but I had to seek better...
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    I am he as you are he as you are me as we are all together.

    I am the WALRUS! :p
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • messiah
    messiah Posts: 1,790
    edited October 2009
    Gaara wrote: »
    Never heard of White Van cables. I thought we were talking about White Van Speakers.

    The White Van Speaker Scam usually has brochures or advertisements showing that the speakers they have sell for big money, usually $2k+. They offer to sell it to you for a paltry $500. You know nothing about the speakers beyond what they tell you, but many will buy based on the thought that they are getting $2k speakers for $500, they must be good for $2k. Another example would be Bose.

    Maybe you personally don't buy based price anchoring, but many do, that's the reason they do it. Flip open any audio advisor catalog and I can guarantee you will see some high priced AudioQuest speaker cable on the same page as some that are priced at 20-30% the price. You see the high priced ones first, then the cheaper ones, and then the ole "90% of the performance) spiel.

    As for it not being about price anchoring, I didn't say it was. You said: "if they were to increase substantially the price of white van speakers, many would fall for it". I think the crazy prices are just part of the equation. I would say that VERY few actually buy based on personal experience. You probably meant most on CP, but your average consumer is not very informed.

    And before a bunch of people jump in and say they don't buy based on price, the plural of anecdote is not statistic, nor are we all the "average" consumer.

    Amen. Good post!
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.

    "The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
    messiah, November 23rd, 2010
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2010
    I missed this thread! So, is it fact or fiction?

    Somebody please tell me coz I don't want to read all 74 pages.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited January 2010
    Really want to know what 74 pages say ?

    Try some different cables, in different price catagories, and find out for yourself.

    Thank me later for saving you the time.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited January 2010
    Ugh! . . . where are my Tums?:D
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2010
    Oh my God, can we send whoever resurrected this post to Guantanamo ? :eek:
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited January 2010
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Oh my God, can we send whoever resurrected this post to Guantanamo ? :eek:

    Nope, destination is now Illinois buddy boy.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2010
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Oh my God, can we send whoever resurrected this post to Guantanamo ? :eek:

    Try Me! :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited January 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    I missed this thread! So, is it fact or fiction?

    Somebody please tell me coz I don't want to read all 74 pages.

    I'd say it's a new genre: FactualFiction...because one has to admit that a lot of what we find above makes for good 'reading', it excites, enrages, and boils some people's blood and it incites trolls galore to action as if they've downed a case of Red Bull and have nothing else to do for the next week!

    Never a dull moment and every month or so we have a new thread that is EXACTLY like this one...so it's also a never ending story line--what more can one ask for!

    Just kidding...

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2010
    cnh wrote: »

    Never a dull moment and every month or so we have a new thread that is EXACTLY like this one...so it's also a never ending story line--what more can one ask for!

    Just kidding...

    cnh

    We call that Friday Night Fever on Club Polk! ;)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited January 2010
    This thread reminds me of herpes in that is has become the gift that keeps on giving and it always seems to flare up when it is least expected.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    Nope, destination is now Illinois buddy boy.

    That's right. Then send ME to Gitmo. Nice climate and no more bad guys. :D
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Try Me! :D

    Yep. In New York for a couple hundred mil. :)
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited January 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    That's right, I said it!

    The irony in your proclamation is that you have nothing to say.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited January 2010
    Now Jess, the youngster has lots to say, it's just that none of it makes any sense.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited January 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    What do you believe?

    I believe I am fed up with your ****.

    Get a life.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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