Emotiva Story.

cnh

Heiney9 is right. And, I believe you can even hear the difference in mid-fi AVRs like Yamaha, HK, Onkyo, Denon. At least they all sound different to me. And Polk speakers in particular do better with 'warmer' sounding SS AVRs...yes some SS sound warmer than others.

cnh

Kex

Marty913 wrote: »

There are other types of PIE also.

I just took a minute to look at that Dilbert rendition of PIE from a few posts up the page. That was quite funny Marty, thanks!

Ricardo

Marty913 wrote: »

H9, your reputation here speaks for itself...

You have no idea :eek:

Matt34

cnh wrote: »

Heiney9 is right. And, I believe you can even hear the difference in mid-fi AVRs like Yamaha, HK, Onkyo, Denon. At least they all sound different to me. And Polk speakers in particular do better with 'warmer' sounding SS AVRs...yes some SS sound warmer than others.

cnh

That's your opinion, just don't go throwing it around as fact because objectively in controlled environments it can be proven wrong time and time again.

Edit: I'll more than welcome anyone in southern Arizona to me casa to conduct such an experiment using four different mid-fi receivers and three external amps.

cnh

You're right that is my opinion...but most things like that are.

Do you have real tests under controlled conditions that can 'prove' what you claim? And please do provide us with the tests, the statistical methodology and the like because I'm not alone in my opinion.


Don't mean to be argumentative...but one shouldn't be a whimp either...right?


cnh

shack

Matt34 wrote:

That's your opinion, just don't go throwing it around as fact because objectively in controlled environments it can be proven wrong time and time again.

You have been involved in exactly how many of the controlled environment tests? And what makes you THE expert?

Kex

Matt34 wrote: »

That's your opinion, just don't go throwing it around as fact because objectively in controlled environments it can be proven wrong time and time again. ...

I prefer not to listen to/watch my stuff in a controlled environment myself, but at home where I live, so that's where I do all of my listening tests ...

Matt34

cnh wrote: »

You're right that is my opinion...but most things like that are.

Do you have real tests under controlled conditions that can 'prove' what you claim? And please do provide us with the tests, the statistical methodology and the like because I'm not alone in my opinion.


Don't mean to be argumentative...but one shouldn't be a whimp either...right?


cnh

I'm not saying your or others are not "perceiving" a difference. Auditioning is fun, but it has been shown time and time again that sighted listening tests are biased by a variety of factors. I suggest reading the following literature to illustrate the exact effects of bias in a sighted listening test.

Toole, Floyd E. Subjective Evaluation: Identifying and Controlling the Variables. J. Audio Engineering Soc., Conference Paper 8-013. May 1990.

Toole, Floyd E.; Olive, Sean E. Hearing is Believing vs. Believing is Hearing: Blind vs. Sighted Listening Tests, and Other Interesting Things. J. Audio Engineering Soc., Conference Paper 3894. November 1994.

vmaxer

so.....should one try Emotiva or no??? Seems like some like them and some don't

Kex

Matt34 wrote: »

I'm not saying your or others are not "perceiving" a difference. ...

Oh no ... here we go ... the thread may soon be going back down the tubes ... together with Messrs. Toole, Floyd and Olive.

Kex, B.O.: Emotiva Story, Club Polk, Thread ref. 78494, Page. 21, Post ref. 621. March 2009.

dkg999

vmaxer - Only you can judge what's right for you, your system, and your ears. Audio/HT is a journey, not a destination. Take the step forward, pick a door, wear assless chaps ....... but don't stand still and do nothing. Buy the Emotiva and report back.

cnh

Emmmmoooooootttttttiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvaaaaaaaaaaa. Emmmmoooooootttttttiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvaaaaaaaaaaa.
Emmmmoooooootttttttiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvaaaaaaaaaaa.

Sounds like a hypnotic induction! Are you 'under' yet?

cnh

Matt34

shack wrote: »

You have been involved in exactly how many of the controlled environment tests? And what makes you THE expert?

I never professed myself an expert, in fact far from it. I have done a few controlled tests in my home with friends and other audio enthusiast and have researched some of Dr. Toole, Brian Castro, Sean Olive extensive work in the area of human perception in regards to audio and how bias's can play a bigger factor in the way we perceive things than most realize.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=8338

I'm not here to twist anyone's arm, I just find this kind of stuff interesting.

Matt34

Kex wrote: »

Oh no ... here we go ... the thread may soon be going back down the tubes ... together with Messrs. Toole, Floyd and Olive.

Kex, B.O.: Emotiva Story, Club Polk, Thread ref. 78494, Page. 21, Post ref. 621. March 2009.

I'll find my way out of this thread, my apologizes.

cnh

If these guys are associated with Harman doesn't that kind of nix any claims, Infinity, JBL, or Harman Kardon can make about the equipment they make and sell? Seems like they'd be shooting themselves in the foot, business wise.

cnh

vmaxer

I already ordered an XPA-3, it arrives tomorrow. I also ordered a used Parasound HCA 1000A which will be a few more days...They will be on 2 different systems. This is my first time with amps, just used receivers in the past. With that said, I think I will be pleased because either/both should be improvements.....I think and hope. I can say that the folks at Emotive are very friendly and helpful. The top guys will talk to you and not rush to get off the phone...Reminds me of my dealings with SVS... I do have 30 days to try the Emotiva.

vmaxer

I am old enough to remember when anything said made in Japan it was junk....so things do change!

cnh

You're absolutely right. Even our elite members here have to admit that unbelievably HIGH END gear is being manufactured in China....companies that sell things in the 10's of thousands of dollars. And the Chinese are fantastic at doing, exactly what many Japanese companies did, i.e., reverse engineering and making it 'cheaper'.

I'll be interested in hearing your impressions between those two amps.

Sounds like a great time!

cnh

comfortablycurt

cnh wrote: »

You're absolutely right. Even our elite members here have to admit that unbelievably HIGH END gear is being manufactured in China....companies that sell things in the 10's of thousands of dollars. And the Chinese are fantastic at doing, exactly what many Japanese companies did, i.e., reverse engineering and making it 'cheaper'.

I'll be interested in hearing your impressions between those two amps.

Sounds like a great time!

cnh

Actually, most of the REALLY high end stuff is either produced here in America, in Japan and also somewhat in the various areas of Europe.

A lot of it is still produced in China...but generally, the really expensive stuff isn't.

I'm not saying your or others are not "perceiving" a difference. Auditioning is fun, but it has been shown time and time again that sighted listening tests are biased by a variety of factors. I suggest reading the following literature to illustrate the exact effects of bias in a sighted listening test.

So when I went and auditioned several different AVR's before purchasing one, the very significant sound differences that I heard amongst them weren't actually there, but were in fact me being biased? I wasn't biased towards any particular company when I went and looked at them. I judged them by which sounded the best to me. I demo'ed an Onkyo, a Denon a Yamaha and a Sony. Each one had it's own characteristic sound. In my case, I preferred the warmer sounding Onkyo.

There is most definitely a noticeable sound difference between different pieces of equipment.

metal83

comfortablycurt wrote: »

There is most definitely a noticeable sound difference between different pieces of equipment.

I agree, that's why i chose the Pioneer Elite over other AVR's, i liked how it sounded compared to anything else!

comfortablycurt

metal83 wrote: »

I agree, that's why i chose the Pioneer Elite over other AVR's, i liked how it sounded compared to anything else!

I still haven't had a chance to get my ears on a Pio Elite AVR. None of the stores around me carry them...so I wasn't able to when I was shopping for one.

I've heard nothing but praise for them though...I'm wishing I would have went and tried one before buying my Onk.

I'm still on the fence as to what route I want to go when I upgrade the Onk, but I'm considering one of the Elites. I'm not sure if I want to get another AVR though, or make the jump to a pre-pro and power amp. I won't be upgrading it for a couple years though at least, so I've still got plenty of time to decide. Maybe I'll get a chance to check out an Elite sometime between now and then.

F1nut

We should be happy for competitive business success in this economy and not decry it.

You mean like Bose? GTFOH.

metal83

Does anyone here have experience with Emotiva.... and ....Sunfire?

I really want to buy a Sunfire and compare it to my XPA-3. I might need to actually sell the XPA-3 to acquire a Sunfire though.

If not, no big deal, figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

heiney9

metal83 wrote: »

Does anyone here have experience with Emotiva.... and ....Sunfire?

I really want to buy a Sunfire and compare it to my XPA-3. I might need to actually sell the XPA-3 to acquire a Sunfire though.

If not, no big deal, figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Get the Sunfire and don't look back.

heiney9

xcapri79 wrote: »

Really, well time will tell. The company's competitors said the same thing in the 80's and 90's, but they are not saying it any more. I work with the company's products every day. They help keep your lights on and your amps running with improved power system reliability.

Emotiva is operating on a similar model from my observations. If they stick to it, I see great success for them. We should be happy for competitive business success in this economy and not decry it.

It worked real well for Outlaw..............they're everywhere :rolleyes:. Emo is trying to do what Outlaw was trying to do. I wouldn't say either company is failing but they aren't the success you claim they should be.

Outlaw, IMO, has a better perceived track record too. I have nothing against Emo, except for those who keep saying it's "a giant killer", "it's the best thing out there", it competes with amps twice/three time the price", it's a great sounding musical amp, etc, etc". It isnt! Those that "get it" understand, those that don't.......are just deluded. Emo is HT gear designed an marketed with a particular niche and the components and designs are built around a price point. In this case the PP shows.

To flip the coin and show another example, a company like Polk also designs and markets to a specific niche and PP, but IMO, there product almost always exceeds other products (by a wide margin in some cases) at the same PP or even a higher PP. If Emo were like that........then maybe they'd be the raging success you want them to be.

Just my .02c to stimulate this short, lonely thread

H9

ND13

Some folks just believe that everything is done with a cookie cutter. LAME!!!

Marty913

Matt34 wrote: »

I'll find my way out of this thread, my apologizes.

No reason to leave Matt, and absolutely no reason to apologize. There are a lot of members (and experts) that share the "perception / bias" view. There are more than a few that take the hybrid approach like amps making a difference but not cables, power plugs. pixie dust, etc. (or the opposite). The arguments have been around for as long as I've been messing with this stuff (1960's).

One thing I have noticed is that IF there is a difference, the difference becomes even more pronounced IF you actually bought the product. Strange.:rolleyes:

mmadden28

heiney9 wrote: »

... I have nothing against Emo, except for those who keep saying it's "a giant killer", "it's the best thing out there", it competes with amps twice/three time the price", it's a great sounding musical amp, etc, etc". It isn't!...

But who is saying those things? Emotiva? 3rd party reviewers? Forum participants?
I still haven't seen much in the way of over the top claims from Emotiva (at least nothing outside of normal marketing), only a lot of reaction to what the other people have said about them and their products,, while some of those reactions/claims appear or might be construed (out of context) as if Emotiva made the claims.

"it's a great sounding musical amp" is a very subjective statement to analyze in the same context as the other claims you quoted, don't you think?

I know you have yet to post your review, but to help put things into perspective for me, which model Emotiva amp did you review/listen to?

cnh

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Actually, most of the REALLY high end stuff is either produced here in America, in Japan and also somewhat in the various areas of Europe.

A lot of it is still produced in China...but generally, the really expensive stuff isn't.



So when I went and auditioned several different AVR's before purchasing one, the very significant sound differences that I heard amongst them weren't actually there, but were in fact me being biased? I wasn't biased towards any particular company when I went and looked at them. I judged them by which sounded the best to me. I demo'ed an Onkyo, a Denon a Yamaha and a Sony. Each one had it's own characteristic sound. In my case, I preferred the warmer sounding Onkyo.

There is most definitely a noticeable sound difference between different pieces of equipment.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. You're right many things are still made in Japan or Europe but there is a REAL shift toward China..especially for a number or very well known high end speaker makers. And, of course, most Polks are put together there as well. If you go to some manufacturer's sites and look at the pics they have of the 'back' of their products many black out the 'made in china' stuff especially when it's over 2 grand or more!

The Chinese have taken over IBMs PC division and that used to be the primary Business machine. I'm certain their engineers can duplicate any piece of current electronics with ease and copy laws being as lax as they are there, there's no reason for an MIT educated Chinese to not do this? Look for China to take most of the entire market in the next 10 years.

cnh

F1nut

xcapri79 wrote: »

This post is about Emotiva. Are you attempting an analogy comparing BOSE to Emotiva? If not why bring them into it, except to be contrarian?
BOSE is not relevant to Emotiva. They don't compare in business model.

Why yes I am and why yes they do.