Emotiva Story.

Ricardo
Ricardo Posts: 10,636
edited August 2011 in Electronics
Seems that they need a new QC manager??

"Well I did buy an Emotiva RSP-2 pre-amp. Yes I have in fact replaced the RSP-2 three times, and am awaiting my fourth unit!

The first one had a noisy phono stage, and very sticky volume control when operated by remote.

The second had half the logo come of when I peeled off the protective shipping strip.

The third one had an even worse volume control than the first, which was really immaterial anyway, because the unit went completely nuts with the front panel lights flashing through all the dimmer values when any input was switched on the front panel. The next morning I was greeted to alien gibberish on the front display. The only way to shut it down was using the back panel switch.

I'm now patiently waiting for the fourth unit to come. Lonnie claimed that the third unit was checked out completely before being shipped. I'm sure something just failed when I got it. It can happen.

Now I spoke with Dan the owner, and he promised me the next one will be perfect, as it will be going through a 2 day burn in.

If this unit proves to be bad, guess the Parasound P3 is my next step. I have already checked it out. Seems like a nice unit, but I will loose one input, and I prefer full height components. Well see what happens.
I will admit the RSP-2 did sound a bit better than my IC-150., but for now my 37 year old crown is back in the saddle again."

Taken from here:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1230394534&read&keyw&zzemotiva
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***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

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Post edited by Ricardo on
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Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    Ya don't say
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,621
    edited February 2009
    They have a new pre/pro that is going to be a smaller unit which i'm not so much a fan of. I realize it's just an aesthetic, but as long as it functions properly, and has a warranty to match, then I'm usually good with that.
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
  • bigred7078
    bigred7078 Posts: 477
    edited February 2009
    that sucks man.
    Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,621
    edited February 2009
    Every manufacturer is going to have problems at some point........bang for the buck is still pretty high with these guys......
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    Build quality appears to be the achillies heel for these "bang for the buck" products. Hopefully it's only sporadic and I'm not sure I'd feel 100% comfortable buying an EMO.

    But I agree, espcially today, with mass produced stuff every company's quality control isn't what it used to be. Just look at the all the issues with HK products lately.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    edited February 2009
    Apparently, they love Emo at Audioholics. Taken from a response on Audiogon,

    "Go to audioholics and see how long you like it there, they love anything as long as it only cost's less then $500 and almost have a irrational distain for anything that many consider hi-end, "all amps sound the same", "no wire sounds different", "recievers are all you need" and so on. They love a wolfpack pile on of many things we respect here so its a very different world."
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    edited February 2009
    Another comment,

    "Not so sure about that Emotiva post I made earlier,,,,the amps have been brought up in reviews for having some less then pleasing performance."
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    edited February 2009
    And another,

    "If you'd like to go brand new, check out the upcoming Emotiva products - world-class components with most every bell and whistle. And their prices are VERY competitive. I'm grabbing a UMC-1 when they are released this Fall..."

    World-class???
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    BAT products are impeccable.

    They can make Emo whine like a cold baby left alone on the front porch.

    They will chew up an Emo like a bulldog on a pork chop.

    Go Large or Just Go Home.

    RT1 note--No Emo owners were harmed by the bulldog, but a few were in fact left out in the cold, on the porch, howling like a bulldog.
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2009
    Whatever EMO is Selling and However their products are priced LOW or Manufactured Poorly, I couldn't Care!

    But the damm Word "REFERENCE" comes with every of their AD makes me sicken. Damm right for using the word "World Class" Shiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt.

    I don't hate that company but I dislike their over statements about their products. It's MISLEADING.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited February 2009
    It's the stuff like this that keeps making me go back and forth on Emotiva. I keep thinking that Emo is what I want to go with for amps in my HT setup...but then I hear these stories and it makes me think otherwise.

    I should just go with something else...I don't want to get 4 defective units before I actually get one that works...
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    But to those that don't know World Class if it bit them on the ****; think they are gettting a World Class sounding product. It's a shame, but just like anything else.................

    Those that don't know...don't know that they don't know.

    They will either reach the fork in the road and choose the proper path or wallow in mediocraty (sp).
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited February 2009
    I think my initial wow factor with Emo is starting to go away...The fancy blue LED's are starting to impress me less and less as time goes on...

    To all the people that are bashing on Emo-Not to offend anyone or anything, but purely out of curiosity, have you guys ever heard any Emo amps before? I haven't...but are your opinions based on comparisons, or solely on theory?

    I've been considering Emo pretty strongly for my HT setup...but if all of the audio vet's are really that hardcore against Emo...I think I'm gonna look into something else.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2009
    Dear Curt,

    I don't BASH EMO. Never been and never will. In fact, I don't Bash any manufacturer as I believe they would try their best to survive in the game and it's fair to do so.

    But in my own opinion, EMO has gone a little bit out of line with their AD giving their low pricing structure.

    May be their products are good, I don't know. But using the word is "Reference" for $600 piece of equipment seems an insult to other manufacturer or the enthusiasts who know what a good stuff is. It's because what is cost to manufacture a good piece of reference equipment can't simply be that cheap. I am sorry if some others disagree but it's my experience with this hobby. As far as the money is concerned, I am a bargain hunter and I would have put my money already if I believe EMO stuff is of Reference quality.

    Brands like Accuphase and Mark Levinson don't seem to make such claims given their world class High Price.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    To all the people that are bashing on Emo-Not to offend anyone or anything, but purely out of curiosity, have you guys ever heard any Emo amps before? I haven't...but are your opinions based on comparisons, or solely on theory?

    Let's call it educated experience. I have never driven a Chevy Cavalier; but as far as what an auto is expected to do it does do. But I can tell you that it's not in the same league as a BMW. The BMW serves the same utilitarian purpose of safely getting passengers from A to B to C, but you'd never confuse it with a Chevy. By the same example a BMW is not a Ferrari, etc, etc....

    Same with audio............Emo, while I'm sure to a vast majority of people sounds pretty good............there is much better to be had and in some cases for not a whole lot more.

    My biggest beef with EMO lovers is their attitude that these are "World Class" products that compete with pricer brands and other designs which have proven over and over to be better. I get the whole "bang for the buck" thing but EMO's advertising and fan boi's need to stop saying these are the greatest..............because they're not.

    Just like my Adcom campaign over the years.......they are what they are in compariosn to like priced and marketed gear. I don't think I've said Adcom was World Class or that it was the "bomb" to borrow a hip term.

    Emo is a budget brand in both cost, performance and build quality and in some cases it might be better than similar competition.......nothing more....nothing less.

    World Class...................hardly :rolleyes:
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2009
    I'm not bashing EMOTIVA either. Just posted as a FYI. I think they have pretty cool looking gear, and they must be doing something right to be able to offer them at those prices. Also they had to cut on something, and it looks they chose quality control. Not a good move IMO.

    As for the sound, I have not heard them, so I can't say anything on that side. But (again IMO), to be able to sell them at those prices, I am pretty sure they are also cutting on components. They can't use high grade resistors, capacitors, transformers, etc, etc and still sell at those prices. The resistors and capacitors I used to upgrade the crossovers of one pair of speakers cost more than their smaller stereo amp. So unless you believe in miracles, I would have to say that it is hard to believe that their amps will sound as good as some other good quality amps (they used the word reference, not me), and do it reliably for a long time.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • metal83
    metal83 Posts: 1,219
    edited February 2009
    I think my initial wow factor with Emo is starting to go away...The fancy blue LED's are starting to impress me less and less as time goes on...

    To all the people that are bashing on Emo-Not to offend anyone or anything, but purely out of curiosity, have you guys ever heard any Emo amps before? I haven't...but are your opinions based on comparisons, or solely on theory?

    I've been considering Emo pretty strongly for my HT setup...but if all of the audio vet's are really that hardcore against Emo...I think I'm gonna look into something else.

    Why don't you just go with what you want and not worry about what other people say. Other peoples personal opinions should not be the final factor in what you do. There are always going to be people that like or dislike a product, no matter who makes it, or how much it costs. And you'll never really know unless you try something out for yourself right?

    I mean yeah i've asked for advice on many things here at club polk, including speakers, cables, and even amps. And i always appreciate the advice and suggestions given (for the most part). But in the end, i always choose what i want to try out, no matter what the recommendations are. Suggestions help a lot, but definitely shouldn't be the deciding factor in your own personal decision.



    Damn audio snobs (kidding)...lol :p:D
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2009
    Again, not Bashing EMO.

    Two words to follow "Reference" for EMO is "MY SS".

    Or Behind an "S" after "World Class"

    It's simply over stating IMHO. Otherwise, I have nothing to say about their quality, products, price, etc. It's totally up to a buyer to try and take advantage of 30 days trial they offer.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    edited February 2009
    Curt, I'm basing my opinion on history. Over the years there have been plenty of "bang for the buck" audio products come out with lots of hype from folks that believe one can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. That's not to say that they are not ok products, but they are not the second coming of JC as some make them out to be and certainly never live up to the hype.

    Anyone remember the Toshiba DVD/CD players or the DK Design integrated amps?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • LessisNevermore
    LessisNevermore Posts: 1,519
    edited February 2009
    So let me get this straight....

    The word "reference", and "world-class" is an offensive term when an upstart company uses it. Why is that offensive, and/or misleading, anymore than when a more "reputable" company uses it?

    What is "World-Class", and "Reference"? They are f**king marketing terms, nothing more, nothing less. I don't take advertising for anything more than face value. MIT claims on their website "MIT Cable's professional high end Audio Cables, Speaker Cables, Video Cables, Interfaces, Interconnects, HDMI Cables, and Power filters deliver the highest degree of signal integrity!"

    Integrity means in-tact, no? Well what's in the little boxes then? It's altering the signal in some way, otherwise no one would hear them as anything different than any other expensive cable. Many people hear a difference and enjoy them very much. So in this case, the claim of signal integrity is another **** marketing term. Does it make them bad? IMO, no because they all do it.

    Notice I didn't rip on MIT's product? I just pointed out their marketing tool, which happens to be a buzz word with audiophiles.(and a false claim)

    If anyone takes advertisements or internet discussion with anything more than a grain of salt, they shouldn't be at all surprised if they aren't happy with their purchase.

    I have an XPA 5. Do I think it's reference quality, or world-class? Reference would imply somewhere out there is one, and only one system the word applies to, -world class, again, just like everything else in this hobby is subjective. What is the agreed upon standard to compare to?

    I like my amp, and the sound still gives me a world class chubby. I've heard vintage tube systems that are worth 10 times or more, and I prefer mine.

    Now go play some music.:D
  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited February 2009
    I haven't commented on the whole emo situation yet as I am one to hear gear before I comment. Having said that I agree with many in that I too find over-marketing to be insulting. They may be great in what they do but they definitely over use the term reference. However, the money back guarantee does say something....assuming there isn't any stupid re-stocking fee.

    I think you also have to keep in mind that if these products were marketed through traditional means that 600 dollar piece would carry a MSRP of around 2K....funny thing is if this was the case they would probably get more respect.

    I definitely would love to get my ears on them. I do think they look cool.

    Anyway, I hope the 4th time is the charm for you Ricardo.

    Good luck,
    Mike
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited February 2009
    Hypothetically... If an EMO costed 3-4X it's asking price and sounded good to your ears, would it be considered "world class" then?
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited February 2009
    I my world "world-class" referrs to a companies product consistency and quality control and design and a companies ability to compete among the best companies in the world in these areas. When you buy a product from a company that is a world class producer of a product you know with certainty that if Joe-down-the-street bought the same model that you would have the same product performance characteristics.


    A product that has to be sent back 4 times for various quality issues is not world class and does not compete with the big dogs. It's simply an entry level piece that performs decently. Any "value" that a person saw in the performance vs. price of the product is now wasted in time and effort to get the product right.

    That being said... I'm a Product development and marketing manager.... so I say all kinds of things that make my products sound good. That's what this game is all about. What I do dissagree with is EMO's pricing if the performance of their product is as good as everybody says it is. I'd fire the product manager in charge of their pricing for not making the company more money.
    HT
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2009
    Replies are followed by the word "Answer" and in Bold and Italics.

    [So let me get this straight....

    The word "reference", and "world-class" is an offensive term when an upstart company uses it. Why is that offensive, and/or misleading, anymore than when a more "reputable" company uses it?]

    Answer - Nothing wrong the start up use "Reference". But not on all of their Effinn Products and it's wrong. You can have a top notch one to claim for it. But claiming for every darn product is MISLEADING.

    [What is "World-Class", and "Reference"? They are f**king marketing terms, nothing more, nothing less. I don't take advertising for anything more than face value. MIT claims on their website "MIT Cable's professional high end Audio Cables, Speaker Cables, Video Cables, Interfaces, Interconnects, HDMI Cables, and Power filters deliver the highest degree of signal integrity!" ]

    Answer - Even when a very high class and reputable manufacturer use such term, it's very subjective and questionable. So, most manufacturer who are well known use that term less than your startup "EMO". If you read it what MIT said, It said Highest Degree of Signal Integrity which is appropriate since it's not reference or world class. The word seems not quite the same meaning, does it?

    [Integrity means in-tact, no? Well what's in the little boxes then? It's altering the signal in some way, otherwise no one would hear them as anything different than any other expensive cable. Many people hear a difference and enjoy them very much. So in this case, the claim of signal integrity is another **** marketing term. Does it make them bad? IMO, no because they all do it.]

    Answer - Both yes and No, all boxes alters signal one way or the other. Some does it less alteration so it's near Reference. Some does it more and claim it Reference.

    [Notice I didn't rip on MIT's product? I just pointed out their marketing tool, which happens to be a buzz word with audiophiles.(and a false claim)]

    Answer - Most Manufactures makes claim that is a little Over Stated. But in EMO case, they did more and then some.

    [If anyone takes advertisements or internet discussion with anything more than a grain of salt, they shouldn't be at all surprised if they aren't happy with their purchase.]

    Answer - Well, if anyone is happy with their purchase, all companies would be out of business with selling one model and no one will ever buy another or seemingly better product.

    [I have an XPA 5. Do I think it's reference quality, or world-class? Reference would imply somewhere out there is one, and only one system the word applies to, -world class, again, just like everything else in this hobby is subjective. What is the agreed upon standard to compare to?]

    Answer - Glad you like your EMO. I said I have no bashing against it. I don't hate their product and I don't know their quality or how it sounds like. But I dislike their AD and it's IMO as I said. If there is a truly reference, it'd be hard press if it ever remains the same to what? Even live musicians does not perform the same everytime they perform and what recoded source is reference to what performance they make?


    [I like my amp, and the sound still gives me a world class chubby. I've heard vintage tube systems that are worth 10 times or more, and I prefer mine.]

    Answer - What you like with your own Ears is what a world class to you but may not be for me or others. Making it funs and enjoyable is all that matters. But making more false claims in the AD to attract uneducated shopper is another matter and I consider it Misleading.


    [Now go play some music.:D]


    Answer - Gladly Sir!


    PS. Edited To Make This Post More Readable!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited February 2009
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    Hypothetically... If an EMO costed 3-4X it's asking price and sounded good to your ears, would it be considered "world class" then?

    This is a good question. But the simple and straight answer is NO. Even the highest quality manufacturer using it would be wrong. If you look at the Accuphase or ML or Classe site, you'll see they use these words less than EMO for 10 x the price of their products and their usage is still very objectionable.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited February 2009
    I do not have a Emo or plan to get one as I love my Craver TFM-45.

    But I do have to ask, what was the point of this post. The OP to my knowledge is not the one having the problem but posting someones else's problem.

    I guess you could find bad press about anything if you look hard enough.

    Just asking to better understand human nature:rolleyes:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    Ricardo is a trouble maker :D:);)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • NotaSuv
    NotaSuv Posts: 3,811
    edited February 2009
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    Hypothetically... If an EMO costed 3-4X it's asking price and sounded good to your ears, would it be considered "world class" then?

    LOL

    maybe there needs to be a price point before the word "world class" can be used ;)
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2009

    Anyway, I hope the 4th time is the charm for you Ricardo.

    Good luck,
    Mike

    Mike, not mine; just a post I found informative given all the hype with Emotiva.
    thsmith wrote: »
    But I do have to ask, what was the point of this post. The OP to my knowledge is not the one having the problem but posting someones else's problem.

    Right; not my problem, and the point of the thread is just to share, because I can, because I wanted to. That's all.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,013
    edited February 2009
    NotaSuv wrote: »
    LOL

    maybe there needs to be a price point before the word "world class" can be used ;)

    Price point has nothing to do with it. It has to be "World Class" to be called world class----refer to A_mattison's post about marketing and positioning, etc. To me it has to sound "World Class" and I beleive I've only come across a few components in my journey that sound "World Class".

    YMMV as well as your experience

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!