I Love SL2000 Tweeters

heiney9

rskarvan wrote: »

I'm thinking Polk outsourced the solution rather than start-up the old "silver-coil SL2000 production line". Two birds. One stone.

To a certain extent. They contracted a few manufacturer's and gave them very specific parameters to meet with the RD0. The engineering dept., among others, sampled many pre-production tweeters from a few different vendors and further suggested changes until Polk got what they felt they were looking for in a replacement tweeter.

H9

Face

rskarvan wrote: »

I prefer to leave the speaker design (including capacitors, cross-over modifications, etc) to Polk Audio, Thiel, etc.

I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to make any significant improvement.

I'm still stuck on the lamp-cord vs. high-end-speaker wire debate. I'm confused now... some very respectable people say that they like Cardas because it adds color and they like color in their speaker wire. Yet, others say that wire is wire and it makes no difference.

I do know that adding capacitance to alter the properties of your speaker can't be a simple thing. The entire feng-shui of the speaker system has now been disrupted and a worm-hole is likely to develop which will swallow the universe whole. I digress.

For someone who can afford Thiel, how much of a burden would it be to buy some cable to try? Buy them used, and if you don't like what you hear or can't hear a difference, sell them. Then you're only out shipping.

Systems

candyliquor35m wrote: »

I had a nice conversation with the older, very knowledgeable gentleman at epohouston.com and he explained it to a T.

The harshness isn't coming from the upper most frequencies that the tweeter is producing because no one can hear that high. The harshness is coming from the lower frequencies that the tweeter

He is partly correct ;)yes the area that we attribute brightness (and harshness) to is much lower than the big peak in that tweeter.However a large peak in a tweeters response in the 12k range will be audible.How much will depend on its actual amplitude but it will add some unwanted sizzle and tizziness for lack of a better word.

The only way to change/correct that is with a cap by changing the crossover point.

But you cannot correctly change the crossover by altering only the tweeter section alone.How it blends with the woofer in both phase and frequency has to be taken into account as well.

ben62670

aud10n3wb13 wrote: »

Here it is.

What software are you using to run these test?
Thanks
Ben

Systems

ben62670 wrote: »

What software are you using to run these test?
Thanks
Ben

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

DarqueKnight

candyliquor35m wrote: »

I could care less about the spike. I've never heard it and probably nobody else has. It's only on paper.

I can understand you saying that you did not hear the spike. I do not understand why you would say "nobody else has". Polk spent considerable time and resources remediating this frequency response anomaly, so obviously they heard it...and they must have been of the belief that other people could hear it also. When Stereo Review reviewed the SDA 1C in their November 1987 issue, they stated:

"We noted with interest that the 5-dB tweeter resonance peak at 13,000 Hz that we found in the earlier version was again present in the SDA-1c."

candyliquor35m wrote: »

The harshness isn't coming from the upper most frequencies that the tweeter is producing because no one can hear that high.

Really? No one can hear that high? While it is true that the upper end of the standard 20-20 kHz human ear sensitivity diminishes with age for many people, it is also true that many people hear up to 15 kHz into old age, assuming there is no damage from abuse, accident, or disease.

candyliquor35m wrote: »

The harshness is coming from the lower frequencies that the tweeter is producing and the only way to change/correct that is with a cap by changing the crossover point.

OK. By what means did you confirm or verify that the harshness was generated by the frequency output in the tweeter's lower range.?

candyliquor35m

wizzy wrote: »

I know this isn't related, but if this were a thread about interconnects or speaker cable a bunch of people (and I'm not saying you Jstas) would be screaming the opposite. "Use your ears!" "The brain hears things that can't be explained!" "electronics can't measure everything!" "science and math can't explain everything!"

W

It does seem odd that all of a sudden the charts are more important than what our ears tell us. It makes me wonder if charts are so important, why they weren't demanded from polk when they first introduced the rd0's. Back then everyone wanted to make their decision based on their ears but now everyone has flip-flopped like a politician

I have nothing against the rd0's but they are not for my taste and I have to assume I'm not the only one in this world of 25 billion ppl (????) that feels that way so I'm searching for another alternative and my listening tests have been very encouraging and nearly 100% satisfactory to me in some cases.

If you're satisified with the sl2000's which quite a few of you have indicated then do nothing.

If you're satisified with the rd0's which even more of you have indicated then do nothing.

If you're a tweaker and think there might be something better out there then spend $3 and find out.

ShinAce

A harsh sound, as must of us would call it, tends to be in the 3 KHz range.

Substantial cutting of that frequencies out is not the solution to smoother sound.

candyliquor35m

Please run some charts on telefunkens too so our brains will know why our ears are so happy with them

ben62670

Sweet. Know I have to wait till I get up to GA to test my speakers. Only one more question. What cable do I use to attach the SPL meter with? Rat Shack digital.

aud10n3wb13

ben62670 wrote: »

Sweet. Know I have to wait till I get up to GA to test my speakers. Only one more question. What cable do I use to attach the SPL meter with? Rat Shack digital.

3.5mm stereo jack to RCA. Here is a pic. My setup is smaller since I don't have EQ neither the loopback connection. My RS spl is analog.

dudeinaroom

MarcLazarek78 wrote: »

just lower your 5k on your EQ.

EQs are for those who don't know they don't know

rskarvan

Face wrote: »

For someone who can afford Thiel, how much of a burden would it be to buy some cable to try? Buy them used, and if you don't like what you hear or can't hear a difference, sell them. Then you're only out shipping.

I can afford Thiel on the USED MARKET. Then, they really aren't any more expensive than a nice set of very-good-condition SDA's. Affording $400 for a set of used speaker-wire seems a bit extravagant. And, there is no guarantee that the bubble isn't going to soon burst on the primo-speaker-wire market.

DarqueKnight

ShinAce wrote: »

A harsh sound, as must of us would call it, tends to be in the 3 KHz range.

Substantial cutting of that frequencies out is not the solution to smoother sound.

It depends on how particular you are. Some people would prefer to have a badly decayed tooth pulled rather than going through a root canal and restorative procedures.

dpowell

DarqueKnight wrote: »

It depends on how particular you are. Some people would prefer to have a badly decayed tooth pulled rather than going through a root canal and restorative procedures.

I wonder what frequencies are inhibited when you put a 'cap' inline with a tooth? Can you hear the difference when you chew?

ben62670

aud10n3wb13 wrote: »

3.5mm stereo jack to RCA. Here is a pic. My setup is smaller since I don't have EQ neither the loopback connection. My RS spl is analog.

OK I think it is as I thought. I would just need to run a signal out to my amp, and build an RCA to summed stereo 3.5 plug.

Systems

ShinAce wrote: »

A harsh sound, as must of us would call it, tends to be in the 3 KHz range.

Yes, harsh sounding vocals indictate problems in the upper mids /lower treble.

DarqueKnight

candyliquor35m wrote: »

It does seem odd that all of a sudden the charts are more important than what our ears tell us. It makes me wonder if charts are so important, why they weren't demanded from polk when they first introduced the rd0's. Back then everyone wanted to make their decision based on their ears but now everyone has flip-flopped like a politician.

I find your predilection for absolutes disturbing. Statements to the effect that "no one can hear that high" and "everyone wanted to make their decision based on their ears" have no basis in fact.

When I was doing research for the 2nd Edition of the SDA Compendium, I emailed Ken Swauger and requested response curves for the SL2000 and RD0 tweeters. Ken replied that such information was considered proprietary and could not be provided for publication. I was somewhat surprised by that response since the phase and frequency response curves for the SL3000 had already been published in the 1989 technical paper I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.

I devoted an entire chapter (Ch. 5) to SDA tweeters and thought such information would be of interest to the reader.

I know for a fact that I am not the only person who asked Polk for response and performance parameter information on the RD0 tweeters.

F1nut

So in conclusion, whether it's on paper or judged by the human ear CL's idea flat out sucks. End of story.

Marty913

F1nut wrote: »

So in conclusion, whether it's on paper or judged by the human ear CL's idea flat out sucks. End of story.

So "are we there yet", or do we move to Page 17.

Where'd License2Irritate go? or should I even ask.

hearingimpared

Marty913 wrote: »

Where'd License2Irritate go? or should I even ask.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ROTFLMAO!!!!

Systems

Marty913 wrote: »

So "are we there yet",

Yes pretty much,it has been a long ride, but boy hasn't there been some fun had along the way.:D

jakelm

I have never heard the Sl2000, but that graph w/out the cap looks pretty damn good to me.

If the spike is that bad, then just punch a hole through the center of the dome with a soldering iron, Thats where the spike resonates anyways. Put a hole like my perfect little Peerless:p:p

I'm just kidding, please dont do that....


Seriously, that little spike, is really nothing a simple Eq cant fix in a flash.

Ben, REW from hometheatershack.com is a great tool, for eq'ing and measuring your system. But I dont trust the RS meter above 10khz. Major mic calibration is needed above that range. But I still use it religiously.

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

I have never heard the Sl2000, but that graph w/out the cap looks pretty damn good to me.

If the spike is that bad, then just punch a hole through the center of the dome with a soldering iron, Thats where the spike resonates anyways. Put a hole like my perfect little Peerless:p:p

I'm just kidding, please dont do that....


Seriously, that little spike, is really nothing a simple Eq cant fix in a flash.

Ben, REW from hometheatershack.com is a great tool, for eq'ing and measuring your system. But I dont trust the RS meter above 10khz. Major mic calibration is needed above that range. But I still use it religiously.

Where I need it most is from 1200-12k. Emphasis on 2000-8500.
Thanks Jake.
So when I finally settle in Ga are you going to head up for a week or so?

jakelm

ben62670 wrote: »

Where I need it most is from 1200-12k. Emphasis on 2000-8500.
Thanks Jake.

Just take your time and calibrate the soundcard and meter correctly. HTS has the calibrations for the RS meter, once you calibrate it, you will never have to adjust it again. It is fairly simple to use. And lets you know what your dealing with in freq' and resonance.

So when I finally settle in Ga are you going to head up for a week or so?

When I retire, I'm on my way...:D

ben62670

I have a pool, and there is a fairly hot blond next door. The only optics I had handy was the scope on my 44mag. As I was lifting it too get a better look I started thinking maybe this isn't a good idea? I just got there, and I am checking out the neighbor with my scope I quickly put it away. I think I will just go over, and introduce myself;) BTW it wasn't loaded:p

aud10n3wb13

jakelm wrote: »

I have never heard the Sl2000, but that graph w/out the cap looks pretty damn good to me.

Honestly, I'm really impressed with my RTA 11Ts and 11TLs. I still need to upgrade though to RDO194. Kim of Polk Audio told me why I need to upgrade to RDO194(198 for 11TL). On his email to me about a month ago:

The newer RD0194-1 SL2000 tweeter will have a smother sounding and more extended high frequency response.

I actually A/B'd my 11TL and Paradigm Atoms an hour ago. I was able to tell that the SL3000 is not as smooth as the Atoms.

Overall, I still love my 11T/11TLs.

dpowell

17 pages anyone?