I Love SL2000 Tweeters

candyliquor35m

I've tried many times to replace them and each time I end up putting them back in.

Without them I lose the magical smooth airyness and pure silk sounds that happen at the top end.

I put a cap on them to tame them down a bit as illustrated in the 2 attachments.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30823

John in MA

I ran my RTA-11Ts with the original SL2000s. When I switched to SRS 1.2TLs (SL3000s) the first thing I noticed was the lack of an unpleasant shrill peak in the tweeter response.

Now I feel like getting 194s for the RTAs, probably would enjoy them a lot more.

nms

candy you've proved your point many times over.

avguytx

Why would a cap be put on them? Doesn't that effectively screw up the crossover to the tweeters? a 2.2uf cap attached to a (roughly) 8-ohm speaker makes it crossover @ 9khz or so. At 6-ohms it's 12kHz! Maybe I just don't understand the philosophy of why a cap would be used instead of a resistor in this scenario. A resistor, of proper value, would attenuate the tweeter if that's what you're going after.

Puzzled to say the least...

MarcLazarek78

I think a resistor is correct also. When I went to an audo shop with the same goal on my car audio speakers,it came to be like $2/3 worth of resistors. Might have had a cap on them too,this was 13 years ago. I didn't like em and took em off.

BaggedLancer

avguytx wrote: »

Why would a cap be put on them? Doesn't that effectively screw up the crossover to the tweeters? a 2.2uf cap attached to a (roughly) 8-ohm speaker makes it crossover @ 9khz or so. At 6-ohms it's 12kHz! Maybe I just don't understand the philosophy of why a cap would be used instead of a resistor in this scenario. A resistor, of proper value, would attenuate the tweeter if that's what you're going after.

Puzzled to say the least...

Certain people are just speical. After so long on the forum I thought you would have known this by now. :rolleyes:

candyliquor35m

It probably is a resistor but at the electrical parts outlet, they called it a cap. It's labeled 2.2MFD +-10% 250VDC.

avguytx

Nope, that's a cap...not a resistor. Anything that has MFD at the end of it is a cap.

MarcLazarek78

caps are measured in Farads. MFD sounds like a abbreviation of measurement form.

In Car audio,you would put at least a 1/2 farad Cap (which is the size of a can of shaving cream) you would put the Cap, on the power wire connecting the car battery to the power amplifier. This would store electricity so it takes less time for your amp to reload from the car battery itself. W/O it your headlights could dim when the amp is pulling heavy loads,and your sound will suffer. at least a 1 farad capacitor is recommended tho,which is the size of a really fat can of hairspray.

avguytx

A cap is measured in capacitance and MFD (microfarad) is just the smaller version of them. There is also picofarads, too, which are even smaller. We aren't talking about car audio "caps" here.

Oh, and a stiffening cap isn't the be all/end all of fixing a charging system problem. It's only a (poor) bandaid for problems further upstream i.e. alternator, battery, current draw, resistance in poor cables, etc.

MarcLazarek78

what would be a good bandaid, a lot of em? Thats the only way I've see it done,but it works.

candyliquor35m

Someone else recommended it. I can't find the thread but it sounds great.

Deadof_knight

When you put caps in series it halfs them

When you put them in parallel the caps total value are added !

avguytx is correct MFD is Microfarad ! and that picture is a cap!

dorokusai

The SL2000 tweeter should be thrown in the trash.

candyliquor35m

You'd be throwing away a perfectly good tweeter or maybe you need tubes to make them sound so magical

Golden Tube SE-100 with 10 mullard xf4 el34's
CJ PV10AL with 2 telefunken ecc82's
AH! 4000 with upsampler and 2 telefunken e188cc's
AQ king cobras
solid core 10 awg romex speaker wire
stock sda srs except for the cap on the tweeters
stock sda IC

MarcLazarek78

just lower your 5k on your EQ.

dorokusai

candyliquor35m wrote: »

You'd be throwing away a perfectly good tweeter or maybe you need tubes to make them sound so magical

Golden Tube SE-100 with 10 mullard xf4 el34's
CJ PV10AL with 2 telefunken ecc82's
AH! 4000 with upsampler and 2 telefunken e188cc's
AQ king cobras
solid core 10 awg romex speaker wire
stock sda srs except for the cap on the tweeters
stock sda IC

I'm not a fan of that tweeter but some folks love them. Do you think I need tubes? What do you recommend?

MarcLazarek78

so is the cap softening up the blow?

candyliquor35m

dorokusai wrote: »

I'm not a fan of that tweeter but some folks love them. Do you think I need tubes? What do you recommend?

You've probably tried them all but you see what my favs are.

candyliquor35m

MarcLazarek78 wrote: »

so is the cap softening up the blow?

I thought it was because of the resistors I thought I was adding but maybe it was wishful thinking or the effect of adding more and more tubes into the mix.

I'll try to take the caps out tomorrow on one side and see if I can tell any difference.

heiney9

MarcLazarek78 wrote: »

so is the cap softening up the blow?

The problems with the sl2000 can not be easily remedied by a simple cap or resistor. If that were the case Polk would have just redesigned the x-over rather than spending 2 years R&Ding a new tweeter (sl3000 at that time).

It's obvious some people like the sl2000, it stems from (2) reasons 1) they like the forward, somewhat harsh output. It seems to make things sound more detailed. We all have different hearing and some just prefer it, they are in the huge minority.

2) and this is where most who don't have an issue with the sl2000 fit; they have never heard the new silk replacement to hear how much smoother, laid back and detailed it is. It integrates much better and isn't as "shouty". Obviously if you have nothing to compare it to, then one might find the sl2000 to be adequate.

Candy.....is one of the few who feel the sl2000 is fine, again he's in the minority and if he's tried the RD0194-1 and didn't like it, then his opinion is valid.

He is one of the few who after hearing the RD0's went back to the sl2000.

H9

avguytx

Maybe his hearing at or around that range is deteriorated. It's a high possibility as mine isn't as good as it used to be and although the SL2000 was bright in that range, it wasn't too terribly bad with the stock crossovers. Now, when the crossovers were redone, it became waaayyyy too much for me. I still prefer the RD0's myself.

heiney9

avguytx wrote: »

Now, when the crossovers were redone, it became waaayyyy too much for me. I still prefer the RD0's myself.

That's a good point, I found the same thing when I redid the x-overs on my 5B's. The sl2000's became unlistenable. I spent almost 19 years with the sl2000 in my 11T's as I had them since new. I wish I wouldn't have waited so long to get the RD0's, at the time I joined this forum I was huge doubter that a tweeter could make that much of a difference; it can and it does.

sl2000's aren't horrible; it's just for most the RD0's are that much better sounding when compared side by side. As always there are exceptions but very few after hearing the RD0's agree the sl2000's are preferred.

The thing is if one buys the RD0's and don't think they are more pleasing you can get almost all your money back by selling them her on CP if you want to continue to use the sl2000's.

H9

ShinAce

Without a full schematic of the crossover, we cannot say what effect the cap is having. We don't even know how or where it is wired in the speaker.

You guys are being rough for absolutely no reason.

Maybe there's a cap and a resistor being used as a Zobel network. Maybe it just so happens to be acting as a notch filter. Maybe the cap is still sitting on someone's desk.

rskarvan

You guys who spend the coins to supposedly "upgrade" the crossover kind of scare me. I can understand replacing a broken tweeter. And, I can even understand "upgrading the tweeter" with a Polk-approved replacement.

But, when you decide that you are better equipped to select a source component than Polk Audio engineering, you are a little bit "out there". Sure, there are better components available. But, at the same time, the ones that they selected are "engineered" for the system.

Its no wonder that your tweeter sounds "different" after you've monkey'd with the crossover. And, I have yet to hear one person who has modified a x-over say... "boy, that sucks".

My Monitor 10's sound fabulous with their stock cross-over. Could they sound better... perhaps. But, then they really wouldn't be Polk Audio Monitor 10's would they.

I trust Polk Audio to do things right the first time. The rest of you are just "tweakers".

dorokusai

I feel the same way and have -zero interest in modding any Polk speakers again.

heiney9

ShinAce wrote: »

Without a full schematic of the crossover, we cannot say what effect the cap is having. We don't even know how or where it is wired in the speaker.

You guys are being rough for absolutely no reason.

Maybe there's a cap and a resistor being used as a Zobel network. Maybe it just so happens to be acting as a notch filter. Maybe the cap is still sitting on someone's desk.

Don't know what your definition of rough is, but this topic of "fixing" the exaggerated output of the sl2000 has been discussed in the past and there is no "fix". I'm just simply stating my opinion and I've given credit to Candys....opinion as well. It's his opinion and he's certainly entitled to it. So far this has been a very logical and well mannered discussion. Sounds like maybe you have a small chip on your shoulder.

I feel it's a bit funny that Candy.... doesn't even know what part it is, why it was chosen to be used or what exact effect it has. Pretty difficult to discuss the merits of a tweak if you really have no idea about what it is or what effect it has.

H9

heiney9

rskarvan wrote: »

You guys who spend the coins to supposedly "upgrade" the crossover kind of scare me. I can understand replacing a broken tweeter. And, I can even understand "upgrading the tweeter" with a Polk-approved replacement.

But, when you decide that you are better equipped to select a source component than Polk Audio engineering, you are a little bit "out there". Sure, there are better components available. But, at the same time, the ones that they selected are "engineered" for the system.

Its no wonder that your tweeter sounds "different" after you've monkey'd with the crossover. And, I have yet to hear one person who has modified a x-over say... "boy, that sucks".

My Monitor 10's sound fabulous with their stock cross-over. Could they sound better... perhaps. But, then they really wouldn't be Polk Audio Monitor 10's would they.

I trust Polk Audio to do things right the first time. The rest of you are just "tweakers".

Once again you just don't get it. It's not about "knowing what's better than Polk". Parts are better today as well as being more cost effective. Polk hit a price point with it's different lines. The LSi's use much better parts in their x-overs than the RT or Monitor line. With your thinking all the speakers should have the same level of parts. It doesn't work that way and if you have ever even followed this upgrade discussion you'd know DarqueKnight talked extensively with Ken and Polk engineers and they made recommendations on where to improve. Right from the horses mouth. Pay attention and get your facts straight.

Also parts wear out over time, they have a useful life cycle and they need to be replaced in order to get the maximum sound. When tires wear out on your 20 year old car do you want to get the latest and best technology or rather spend your money on 20 year old technology.

It's not and never been about "we know what's better than Polk". It's a 20 year old product that can benefit from improvements in parts as well as the parts being at the end of their product lifecycle. Tweaker, yes we are but for a different reason than you say.

H9

rskarvan

H9,

I've had crossovers in speakers that are over 20 years old and they still sound fabulous. So, I am skeptical about capacitors wearing out in a cross-over. Perhaps their value will change a little... but, the system has probably been designed to be reasonably insensitive to that.

When the components for the speaker system were selected, they were probably all engineered with a certain "target accuracy" in mind. There is no sense to putting gold-rated capacitors on a bronze-rated driver. So, upgrade if you must.... but, there is probably little benefit unless that particular $0.50 component is the weak design link in the chain.

Lastly, have you guys ever heard of "the law of diminishing returns"? It is a real phenomina that exists and must be considered in every design decision. Sure, I can make a part more accurately... but, at what benefit?

I purchase speakers based upon the fact that "I enjoy their sound". It would be silly (and incredibly egotistical) to purchase speakers thinking... "Not bad... but, if you swap out the tweeters, re-wire it with silver-wire, change the binding posts to vampires, and replace every capacitor with Sonicaps, re-stuff it with cotton-balls instead of poly-fill, and change the grill fabric... then, it will make an incredible difference and be a "giant killer".

Tweakers. Gotta love em.

dorokusai

Why is it about "getting it" exactly?

I recall a conversation with a Polk engineer about tweaking the LSi and guess what the first comment was? Add some dampening to the port tube. Second? Upgrade the woofer. Third? Upgrade the crossover....if you want to. Are my facts straight?

Just because it's old doesn't automatically mean it needs repair. I have a 25+ year old pair of DQ10's that still sound great and I didn't notice the crossovers on my to-do list.

Enjoy yourself, upgrade what you want, that's why the hobby is fun but don't get mad at those who don't care. I like to tweak electronics, loudspeakers? No.

heiney9

Ron,

Based on your argument you've obviously never tried the things you are doubting. Talk with Nelson Pass sometime he makes recommended improvements all the time for older Threshold amps he designed. In fact he encourages the updating and improvements.

If you don't have any desire to try tweaking, that's your prerogative, but it's hard for you to argue against it with any sort of credibility if you've never tried it.

H9