Power Cords realy help!

P.HUNT

I got my ps audio prelude power cords today and they are worth every penny even if I just hang them on the wall, what a work of art these are!!

WilliamM2

Sorry W.W.,
Didn't mean to lump you in with some of the others.

PolkThug

kingkip wrote:

Without that knowledge it renders all the so called tests irrelevant.

Good thing Polk Audio and SVS don't share your opinion.

Midnite Mick

What good are those wires P. Hunt with no speakers (signature)? What are you waiting to arrive?

Mike

F1nut

And NO ONE has been able to do that yet. Why is that? Any explanation?

I HAVE, yet you refuse to believe me. Why is that?

WilliamM2

Who administered the DBT? How were the cables swapped without your knowledge of which cables were being used?

F1nut

William,

Every single time I have changed cables I have heard a difference and often times for the worse. I don't need a stupid BDT to know the **** difference of what I hear. What **** part of that don't you get!?!

Regards,
Jesse

shack

F1nut wrote:

I HAVE, yet you refuse to believe me. Why is that?

I have participated in a DBT also and heard the difference. Are you going to question my integrity also.

Quote:
Originally posted by bikezappa
Shack

I beleive you think you hear a differnce.

Would try the ABX test?

Have some switch the speaker wires between lamp cord and whatever wires you love. Do this test ten times without looking at the person changing the wires. Write down what speaker wires you think are connected each time. Have the person switching the wires write down what wires are connected each time.

Compare the results.

Tell us the results.


I couldn't tell any differences. 50%

Have a blast and get the data.

MY REPLY

I just did this with a set of AudioQuest Diamondbacks and SC Analog 2s. After I had time to aquaint myself with the SCs and the Diamondbacks at the same time, I had my daughter help me with a blind test. She would swap the cables, play a passage that I used during the demos then ask me which one it was. 8 changes/opportunities....8 correct answers. Sometimes she would change the cable...sometimes not. I COULD pick out the difference every time.

To be quite honest with you I REALLY DO NOT CARE what you do or don't believe about wire/cables/interconnects. For all I care you can use coat hangers, tinfoil, jumper cables, baling wire or paper clips...whatever floats your boat. What I do resent is the constant barrage of folks telling me and others that we are simply hearing a difference to justify our purchases or or soothe our egos. I listened to many different cables via the cable swap program Doro kindly arranged with NO FINANCIAL OUTLAY (other than shipping). The six bucks I spent to ship them certainly wasn't the influencing factor in my experience. I have spent considerable time in the past telling of MY experiences only to be told it is all voodoo and basically I am simply hearing what I want to hear. Because of that I have taken the stance that I DON'T CARE about what you think and don't post my experiences. Generally my participation in the treads is to ridicule the discussions for what they are. Exercises in futility.

I'm done. I've posted a past DBT experience only to refute the statement that a DBT has NEVER produced a finding of difference in cables. Believe it or not...it's up to you. Future post will resume making fun of the discussion.:rolleyes:

WilliamM2

I don't need a stupid BDT to know the **** difference of what I hear. What **** part of that don't you get!?!

First you claim you've passed DBT's, then you admit it wasn't a DBT at all. Can't imagine why I wouldn't believe you.

Nice language BTW.

WilliamM2

I have participated in a DBT also and heard the difference. Are you going to question my integrity also.

It's not a question of your integrity. In drug tests, as many as half the patients taking the placebo will see dramatic improvements, others will have imaginary side effects. It's not because they are being dishonest, it's because they WANT to see a difference.

If you are able to pick out the difference 100% of the time, why not repeat the experience for a nuetral third party. You would be the first ever, you may even become famous.

shack

WilliamM2 wrote:

It's not a question of your integrity. In drug tests, as many as half the patients taking the placebo will see dramatic improvements, others will have imaginary side effects. It's not because they are being dishonest, it's because they WANT to see a difference.

If you are able to pick out the difference 100% of the time, why not repeat the experience for a nuetral third party. You would be the first ever, you may even become famous.

Like I said....I DON'T CARE! I have proved it for my own benefit and don't give a rat's **** if you or anyone else believes me or not. As far as a neutral 3rd party, you obviously don't have teenage kids. They would rather prove a parent wrong in anything than breathe. It is what they live for.

As a side note. I find it amazing that you have either attended or have data on every single cable DBT that has ever taken place to know for a fact that every single person has failed. That in an of itself is quite an acomplishment.

WilliamM2

I find it amazing that you have either attended or have data on every single cable DBT that has ever taken place to know for a fact that every single person has failed. That in an of itself is quite an acomplishment.

Never claimed I had all the data. I said in all the data I could find, I haven't found anyone who has passed yet.

I have asked if anyone else knows of a DBT where someone passed, so far, no one has pointed one out. Of course if such a DBT existed, I imagine one of the manufacturers would have pointed it out long ago, in their advertising.

PolkThug

shack wrote:

Like I said....I DON'T CARE!

If you make a third post saying you don't care, I'll know you care.

Anyway, William, Secrets of Home Theater HiFi conducted an extensive blind interconnect test. Its a really good read, interconnects are ranked. I don't have the link and can't see that site from work, so you'll have to look for it. Secrets is the holy grail of video testing so I would definitely put a lot of weight in any testing they do. Check it out. Here it is:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/audio-cable-shootout-part-1-12-2000.html

However, Secrets double blind power cord test tells a different story. "Bottom line: nobody could tell the difference between generic power cords and Nordost's $2,500 Valhalla cables. "

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

dorokusai

More reading for the interested....

A Tale of 4 AC Power Cables - Secrets - Jason Serinus

AC Power Cord Comparison - Secrets - Paul Knutson

William - Did you get a chance to read the MIT articles?

faster100

off topic, but i watched a news thing where people who liked/loved high end vodka, grey goose.. and some of the other higher dollar stuff, were tested... and they couldnt tell the generic potatoe water from thier high end drink Vodka

far as wire, who knows..

dorokusai

And here is a counter to that test....blah blah blah

adam2434

faster100 wrote:

off topic, but i watched a news thing where people who liked/loved high end vodka, grey goose.. and some of the other higher dollar stuff, were tested... and they couldnt tell the generic potatoe water from thier high end drink Vodka

far as wire, who knows..

If they drank enough, they'd be able to tell in the morning.

By the way, I ordered 4 of the Volex cords from Carlton-Bates. Figured what the heck, give em a shot. They'll go on my L/R amps, preamp, and sub. They don't have a minimum order fee if you order by phone.

WilliamM2

Hi Doro,

Yes I did. I didn't see anything there to convince me that different wire makes a difference. I know MIT also uses network boxes that would change the sound, although to me that goes against the principles of HI-Fi.

WilliamM2

See how easy it was for Doro to find a counter test for the Vodka? Why isn't that possible with cables?

SCompRacer

WilliamM2 wrote:

Hi Doro,

Yes I did. I didn't see anything there to convince me that different wire makes a difference. I know MIT also uses network boxes that would change the sound, although to me that goes against the principles of HI-Fi.

One would have to believe cables with different impedance made a difference in sound for that to happen.

I doubt one DBT would be enough for some of you anyway.

sickicw

First of all most all of these tests mean nothing to me other than in one particular test setup the power cord is or is not the bottleneck in the system power.

Second, these “tests” are hardly scientific. I mean really where are the measurements? How much current is being drawn from each cord into each component? What is the impedance of the cords? What is the impedance of the speakers? What type of circuit is being use from the wall. What is the impedance of that wall circuit? What gauge of wire is in the wall? What is the efficiency of the amp? How loud is the music being played? I mean really, these “test” prove nothing.

Third, I don’t think it would be too hard to scientifically prove that power cords do matter in certain system, but I for one am not going to take the time (or money for test equipment) right now to do this.

faster100

It wasnt a counter, they still didn't know the difference..

shack

PolkThug wrote:

If you make a third post saying you don't care, I'll know you care.

No need to. You know my position.

PolkThug wrote:

However, Secrets double blind power cord test tells a different story. "Bottom line: nobody could tell the difference between generic power cords and Nordost's $2,500 Valhalla cables. "

As always it's in the interpretation of the data isn't it? From the article itself:

The participant who scored best in the second group of 6 is a BAAS member who participated in Hone Your Listening Skills. He got 7 out of 10 right. According to Manny, even 7 out of 10 is not high enough to be statistically significant.

Therefore, we cannot conclude that different power cords produce a difference using the blind ABX protocol. However, we also cannot conclude that there are no differences. We simply failed to prove that differences can be detected to a statistically significant degree using a blind ABX protocol.

dorokusai

faster100 wrote:

It wasnt a counter, they still didn't know the difference..

They were rated from worse to best....or didn't you read?

PolkThug

shack wrote:

As always it's in the interpretation of the data isn't it? From the article itself:

Exactly. A person 100 miles away from the test could statistically be correct 50% of the time with two power cords. People who actually got to listen couldn't do any better.

dorokusai

WilliamM2 wrote:

Hi Doro,

Yes I did. I didn't see anything there to convince me that different wire makes a difference. I know MIT also uses network boxes that would change the sound, although to me that goes against the principles of HI-Fi.

Those white papers aren't just about the use of passive network boxes.

How exactly does it go against the principles of High Fidelity? Just out of curiosity, what are those principles?

faster100

The test was for brand and for taste.. they certainly didnt pick the most expensive as the best..

It was a tongue in cheek comment anyway.

PolkThug

crunchy peanutbutter is the best.

faster100

I was talking Vodka, not cables

who cares, buy what cables ya want and be done..

SCompRacer

PolkThug wrote:

crunchy peanutbutter is the best.

Which brand?:D