Power Cords realy help!

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,813
    edited May 2006
    John,

    I grew up the son of a highly respected physicist who also built audio equipment in his spare time, including a tube amp and TT from scratch. He is the typical scientist, skeptical at best. In conversations with him about high end cables, he basically said they can't make a difference. So I invited him to hear it for himself and without knowing brand names or the cost of any of the cables I use, he listened. Shaking his head and with a big smile he admitted to hearing a difference. That, my friend, is having an open mind. Get it!?!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • opus
    opus Posts: 1,252
    edited May 2006
    johnADA wrote:
    ". Their both drunks, they both get stoned, drunk etc. One does it to the limits of his means, the other get by, ??


    Hey, hey, Whoa don't drag me into this arguement.............:D
    The Flea rig
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited May 2006
    unbridled_id is in a chipper mood I see - here's the PM I received on my comment.

    "Yes, I have a thought you smug ****. The only way I see you obtaining the humility you need is to endure a severe life threatening illness. This is what I hope for you, you coward. **** you and the three or four others who feel they stand above the crowd. Yes, I have a thought you smug ****. The only way I see you obtaining the humility you need is to endure a severe life threatening illness. This is what I hope for you, you coward. **** you and the three or four others who feel they stand above the crowd, you "sir" are ****."

    Quite a charming guy, no? (and yes, he did type it TWICE in the pm)
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,205
    edited May 2006
    Is it possible to talk about anything in here without all the ****????
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,514
    edited May 2006
    I sense....hostility.

    Jesse, got em Thursday. 60 hours and counting.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited May 2006
    Tour2ma wrote:
    Exerpt from one of the more objectively compelling posts I've seen in three+ years of these debates.

    We all know hospital plugs, power cords, etc. are made to a higher standard than their home equivalents, but until I read the above and the rest of jeff's post, I never stopped to think about why.

    Well done, jeff...

    Of course none of it matters if you do not hear a difference in your home application(s)... and that's the oldest argument of all...

    If the difference you hear sounds like:

    . . . . . . beep
    . . . . . . beep
    . . . . . . .....beep
    . . . . . . beep
    . . . . . . .beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

    , it would matter I bit I suppose. :eek:
    -Ignorance is strength -
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  • LiquidSound
    LiquidSound Posts: 1,261
    edited May 2006
    I did a test of my own, between two types of monster cables. I used my girlfriend as the test subject. After literally blindfolding her *as she's got a problem with peeking* I did the test.

    I had two cables, for each speaker, of equal length, across the front soundstage, twisted at receiver end and into each speaker as biwire. The others were true biwires, of lesser quality/price. I'll look up the model #'s if I care enough..

    My first test, I disconnected each speaker, dropped the cables, and picked the same ones up again. The result? She heard a slight difference. Better vocals, better detail. Obviously she was having placebo.

    Second, I rinsed and repeated, no difference..as she was now truly paying attention.

    Third, I put in the new, actual biwires, and she picked up on it immediately. Every peice in the track had a sock on it. It was blatently obvious to me..but her reaction was exactly the same as mine. Buckwheats..all of em. Wool socks for everything.

    So I put the others back in..and it was night and day..literally.

    It's not just me.

    I feel the true test is not to use another audiophile, nor use someone who has no clue. Give them just enough info and practice to be dangerous. THEN try it out...but only by using trickery.

    Jeez man..did I just participate in animal cruelty?? I hope the police never find this horse...
    Two Channel Main
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    "If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,813
    edited May 2006
    Rich, Excellent!!!




    As for unbridled_id, I see guys wearing white coats in your future.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited May 2006
    Fantastic story Liquid. Now all you need to do is repeat that test for the scientific community, and the cable debate will be settled once and for all.

    Wonder why no one has done that yet...
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2006
    It has been done and they still couldn't agree on the results. The cable debate is a waste of time and effort.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • kingkip
    kingkip Posts: 401
    edited May 2006
    Well 100 posts in this thread and still no definitive answer. Anyone want to tackle an easier subject like Jesus?
    There are two ways to argue with women. Both of them are wrong.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited May 2006
    There is no definitive answer. Some people have the capability to hear differences, some don't; just like some people can play a piano and some can't.

    It's just that simple.

    If you are a "non-believer", cool, you just saved yourself a ton a money. If you believe you hear differences in cables, then knock yourself out. I've never understood this debate---participation in high-end cable buying IS NOT MANDATORY.

    If everything in audio came down to scientific measurements, then 80% of all speakers would sound exactly the same, with this line of reasoning. You've got to climb outside of the box and audition cables and SEE if you HEAR a difference.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited May 2006
    I've never understood this debate

    It's simple. If there are people who can hear the difference, it would be easy to prove. Yet no one has ever been able to do that.

    As liquid says:
    So I put the others back in..and it was night and day..literally.

    Night and day, yet no one ever passes a DBT test. Interesting...
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited May 2006
    Do you have to "prove" to other people that you like the car you own?

    Come on man...

    If you don't feel cables make a difference...don't buy them. Use the IC that came with your component. It's otherwise known as "personal preference." Do you really need that Corvette? Nah, a Geo Metro will get there just as well, but.....
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited May 2006
    johnADA wrote:
    Their both drunks, they both get stoned, drunk etc. One does it to the limits of his means, the other get by, but both are the same really. Same goes here. Get the drift???
    opus wrote:
    Hey, hey, Whoa don't drag me into this arguement.............:D


    LOL! Thanks for the laugh opus...that was funny :D
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited May 2006
    steveinaz wrote:
    Do you have to "prove" to other people that you like the car you own?

    Come on man.


    Zactly.
    This came up before, I don't remember who said it but the basics were...

    A minivan is a perfect vehicle therefore no one needs a Corvette.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,813
    edited May 2006
    It's simple. If there are people who can hear the difference, it would be easy to prove. Yet no one has ever been able to do that.

    Can you prove that you can't hear a difference, it should be easy to prove. Yet no one has ever been able to do that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited May 2006
    GOLD Jerry, pure gold and the best reply in this thread....
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited May 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Can you prove that you can't hear a difference, it should be easy to prove. Yet no one has ever been able to do that.

    Exactly....Just because you SAY you can't hear the difference, how do we know you haven't been unduly influenced by the anti-cable crowd. You, know...you just think you can't hear a difference...because of peer pressure and stuff. Mabe the difference is there and you refuse to acknowledge it. Maybe you are lying to us. Hard to prove....huh?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited May 2006
    I love these threads just because everybody comes in spouting what they know is fact and yet all the facts point against eachother.
    Then we get all the people who say they do not debate this topic while they point out the facts.
    Then people get mad and try to force people to see the facts.
    It just goes on and on until the next thread on this subject.

    Always a fun read.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited May 2006
    What I find funny is that the anti-cable crowd sounds almost insecure about the topic; "Prove to me you can hear that..." It's laughable. If you don't hear a difference, well then......OK. Stick with your stock IC's and your lamp cord, why are you so obsessed with proving me wrong? Like it would make a difference. It's like we're measuring dicks around here....

    I drive a cheapo Suzuki Forenza, somebody want to pick that decision apart? I don't care, I'm the one makin' the damn payment right?

    Funny stuff.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited May 2006
    It is funny because it is subjective.
    It is like the person that can not tell the difference between a HTIB and a theater. The theater is louder is the only difference.
    Why spend movie theater system money when a HTIB will do the same thing?

    Preference.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,813
    edited May 2006
    If you don't hear a difference, well then......OK. Stick with your stock IC's and your lamp cord, why are you so obsessed with proving me wrong? Like it would make a difference.

    Ding Ding, we have a winner!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited May 2006
    So, why are these people who say they can't hear a difference buying all these expensive cables anyway?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited May 2006
    I don't mind these debates.
    I only worry about the really dangerous discussions,
    like "DOES THIS MAKE ME LOOK FAT?" .
    Now that is an opening line to a really ugly conversation.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited May 2006
    Do you have to "prove" to other people that you like the car you own?

    That's is totally irrelevant. I'm not asking for proof you like the cables, I know you do.

    I asked why no one has ever been able to prove they sound different, and of course ALL of you just avoid the question.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited May 2006
    A minivan is a perfect vehicle therefore no one needs a Corvette.

    Another totally illogical comparison. The differences between a corvette and a mini-van are easily measured, and proven, and have been many times.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2006
    If you're looking for some data, you could read some of this.

    For some reason the link dropped out on the website....oh well, check back later I guess.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited May 2006
    "The page cannot be displayed"

    Hmmm... Even MIT doesn't want to get into it with this crowd. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,514
    edited May 2006
    The link worked for me. I recently picked up a pair of MIT Shotgun IC's. Next Saturday I'll compare them to the Lapis and SPM's.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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