Power Cords realy help!

tryrrthg

Audio Advisor has some PS Audio cords on sale as much as 60% off.

If you want to save a few bucks you could build your own. DH labs sells their cord for around $5 a foot. Signal Cable, I believe, uses this cord for their power cord. That Carol cord can also be bought by the foot at Home Depot or Lowes. If I remember correctly it cost about $1 a foot. I used it recently for a DIY extension power strip.

schwarcw

dorokusai wrote:

Ron from SVS simply doesn't believe in the benefit but is entertaining the thought....

SVS stock cords are junk!!!!! 18 AWG. Most people won't use 18 guage wire for their speakers. Imagine powering a 320 watt BASH amp with 18 AWG. The first thing SVS owners should do is replace that cheap power cord. I installed a PS Audio Prelude and noticed deeper bass and a whole lot more punch.

I love SVS, but their power cords are junk!

unbridled_id

Cables That Don't Matter

At the outset, let's start by looking at the big distinction between cable types: there are cables that carry audio and video signals, and cables that don't. Audio and video are carried in various forms: RF ("radio frequency"), component video, composite video, S-Video, and stereo analog audio are the principal, though not the only, forms. These days, though, there can be a lot of other wire associated with an a/v system: telephone lines connecting satellite receivers and PVRs to the outside world, control cables allowing a TV to be used to program a VCR or allowing a PVR to change channels on a satellite receiver, and all manner of power cords, from the little transformer supplies for small a/v accessories on up to regular three-pronged power strips, extension cords, and power supply cables.

Absent some sort of known malfunction, there's very little reason to think that replacement of control or power cables will improve your system's performance at all. There have been a lot of strange claims made in recent years about power cords, and people paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars for them; but the fact is that a power cord, so long as it's well-constructed and undamaged, correctly sized for the load, and driving a reasonably well-designed power supply, should make no difference whatsoever to the sound of your system. The same goes for these other non-signal cables. If they seem to be working, don't mess with them.

RuSsMaN

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/doeswirematter/doeswirematter.htm

Got an original thought or opinion?

PolkThug

schwarcw wrote:

SVS stock cords are junk!!!!! 18 AWG. Most people won't use 18 guage wire for their speakers. Imagine powering a 320 watt BASH amp with 18 AWG. The first thing SVS owners should do is replace that cheap power cord. I installed a PS Audio Prelude and noticed deeper bass and a whole lot more punch.
I love SVS, but their power cords are junk!

Do you think your SVS was not performing to its specs with their power cord, or is it now functioning beyond their specs with the PS cord?
I'm using Polk Audio power cords on my SVS' and my in-room response is solid to 16hz. The Polk power cords look much wimpier than the SVS cords, but the SVS's were too short for my application.

shack

RuSsMaN wrote:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/doeswirematter/doeswirematter.htm

Got an original thought or opinion?

At least put it in "quotes" to let us know it is a cut and paste job.

Tour2ma wrote:

Isn't the volex the cord that steveinAZ wrote about moons ago?

I remember buying two, one of which I presume went the way of the SC Magic that slimeball ripped off from doro...

Yes it is. I got it and the Signal Cable Magic Power cord to demo at the same time. I remember the Volex being marginally better than stock but no where near as good as the SC.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17884&highlight=volex

sickicw

unbridled_id wrote:

Absent some sort of known malfunction, there's very little reason to think that replacement of control or power cables will improve your system's performance at all. There have been a lot of strange claims made in recent years about power cords, and people paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars for them; but the fact is that a power cord, so long as it's well-constructed and undamaged, correctly sized for the load, and driving a reasonably well-designed power supply, should make no difference whatsoever to the sound of your system. The same goes for these other non-signal cables. If they seem to be working, don't mess with them.

The problem is what does "correctly sized for the load" mean? Most mid to large amps can easily benifit by the reduced resistance of a low gauge power cable. This allows current to more easily flow to the power supply.

It is like water flowing from a small creek into an empty lake. One way to quickly get more water into the lake is to increase the pressure of the water in the creek (voltage) with water pumps. The other way is to not use the creek and use a wider and deeper river so that more water (current) can flow into the lake. In our world, you can't change the voltage coming from the wall (unless you use a volage regulator), but you can change the amount of current by using lower gauge power cables.

I do agree, however, that most of these low gauge power cables are WAY overpriced.

PolkThug

The best power chords:

F1nut

RuSsMaN wrote:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/doeswirematter/doeswirematter.htm

Got an original thought or opinion?

Ouch, that's going to leave a mark that even Tide with bleach can't get out.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

tonyb

RuSsMaN wrote:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/doeswirematter/doeswirematter.htm

Got an original thought or opinion?

Now that there is frickin hilarious,
I don't care who you are.:D

johnADA

Nothing but talked into your mind hype.
Yeah if you use R57 cable and go to RG6, you'll notice a difference.
If you go from analog to digital on receivers, you'll notice a difference.


These are 2 examples of interconnects that had poor shielding and have gone to better shielding and larger inner cores.

If you look at the better Phillips, RCA and a few other off brands of interconnects, they have the same size inner core, same ply to the shielding and so on that so called "higher ended" cables do with just a larger ply over insulation to them, thats it!! The name Monster applies to its profits, not quality. How can the same size/gauge inner core with the same ply ratings internally with extra over insulation carry a signal better?? Only if your stuff isnt at least double shielded and has been twisted so many times layers have broken!!
Dont believe, well go get yourself a ohm meter and test the wires themselves, then send voltage/amps through them and see with again the same meter how much leaks through!!

LuSh

I find most people that comment on cables have little to no experience with high quality cables or audio. They'll laugh at the prospect's of cable changes then post a right-wing antihero's blabber about how the industry is out to screw you.

Here's a thought, try a few higher end cables (not the $100 and under jobbies) from the likes of Harmonic Technology, Siltech, Nordost, Purist Audio design. Then get back to me, untill then you really have no experience and therefore shouldn't comment on the matter. You're just another sheep untill you've actually listened.

johnADA

LuSh wrote:

I find most people that comment on cables have little to no experience with high quality cables or audio. They'll laugh at the prospect's of cable changes then post a right-wing antihero's blabber about how the industry is out to screw you.

Here's a thought, try a few higher end cables (not the $100 and under jobbies) from the likes of Harmonic Technology, Siltech, Nordost, Purist Audio design. Then get back to me, untill then you really have no experience and therefore shouldn't comment on the matter. You're just another sheep untill you've actually listened.

If a meter cant pickup a difference in resistance.
If a meter cant show a bleed off, higher from one cable to the next showing poor shielding.
I guess than paying alot more makes it better or does it just pacify the end user???

Well I guess if you believe that, your the guy I want to sell to in the aftermarket automotive market. I got a set of wires thats 12 mm major branded that run $300, that will give you more power and better mileage than anything out there. Same EXACT PRINCIPLE, its ability to carry and the same hogwash!!

PolkThug

John,

Basically, it doesn't really matter if a "widget" makes a real difference or not. If somebody thinks it does, and they enjoy their system more because of it, then its all good.

Regards,
Toby

Skynut

PolkThug wrote:

John,

Basically, it doesn't really matter if a "widget" makes a real difference or not. If somebody thinks it does, and they enjoy their system more because of it, then its all good.

Regards,
Toby

Well put.

shack

johnADA wrote:

If a meter cant pickup a difference in resistance.
If a meter cant show a bleed off, higher from one cable to the next showing poor shielding.
I guess than paying alot more makes it better or does it just pacify the end user???

Well I guess if you believe that, your the guy I want to sell to in the aftermarket automotive market. I got a set of wires thats 12 mm major branded that run $300, that will give you more power and better mileage than anything out there. Same EXACT PRINCIPLE, its ability to carry and the same hogwash!!

Is he related to JohnK? I just love it when some new guy waltzes in here telling everybody they are basically full of ****. How oh how did we ever survive without his knowledge? I am enlightend now! Thanks for setting us straight. :rolleyes:

jeffwalter

I cannot help but respond to this thread. It is an age-old topic that can be argued forever. But hey I like a good argument. There are distinct differences when you are talking power cables versus signal cables. High voltage and and it's interaction within a conductor is much different than low voltage signal interaction. Granted much of the physics applies but the differences remain. Many here would like to simplify voltage, resistance and current because that is what anyone can learn in a simple basic electronics course at their local community college. I encourage all to do so. It will give you a better understanding of the basics. But much more study is required to understand the physics of electricity and electronic behaviour.

I do not claim to be an expert in the field but I have studied the principles and worked as a technician in the medical electronics field troubleshooting electrical interference and signal integrity issues with sensitive diagnostic equipment. These systems are very suscepible to powerline interference and signal degradation. What I have found working in many cities worldwide is that the same issues arise. The power supplied to the system is of very poor quality (sucks). I have not seen power in any major metro hospital that was acceptable. It all requires stabilization and filtering. In most cases it requires regeneration to meet baseline requirements. The second most common problems are signal cable problems and interference between cables carrying power and low voltage signal cables. The diagnostic systems that I work on require extreme levels of shielding to prevent the injection of noise onto the low voltage (or in some cases even high voltage) carriers.

What does all this mean? The same physics applies to home audio and video. The bottom line is that clean AC power is good. Dirty AC power is bad. It will infect and interact with high voltage and low voltage signals in a system. What do power conditioners and AC regenerators do? They clean up the power coming into your system. High quality power cables will do the same although at a much lower level since they can be made to reject interference and minimze the transfer of noise. A good cable is not judged by the gauge of the wire or the gauge of the insulation for that matter. If that were the case I would start making cables from the left over 000 gauge power supply cables we use every day. It is the type of insulation and the quality of the conductor/ type of construction that matters. You can take a very high quality conductor, wrap it in plastic tubing and make a horrible cable out of it. Another huge variable is quality of installation. Our systems are installed by a single crew of people that travel the world over and only do installations. That is called quality control. In the home audio/video arena there is zero quality control. The average enthusiast runs down to the local retailer, or in todays world greets the UPS driver at the door, and racks a new peice of gear with very little to no knowledge of how it will effect their systems performance. If that same person has just so happened to buy a new pair of high quality interconnects and takes reasonable care in cabling the system properly their performance can and in most cases will be superior to someone who racks and stacks the new component and adds some more cable to the rats nest behind the cabinet.

So, the lesson for today is; pay careful attention when cabling your system. Insure you keep maximum separation between high voltage and low voltage cabling. This is even more important for those of you out there poo-pooing high quality cables;) The second is purchase some form of power conditioning equipment for your system. Not just a surge strip but something that will at a minimum reject and filter noise from your AC supply. This noise gets into everything. If you save enough to get an AC regeneration unit you are at the top of your game.

Disclaimer: I do not work for nor do I sell high quality A/V cables and power conditioning equipment. The manufacturers just pay me a royalty everytime I write in support of their efforts:D
JD

schwarcw

PolkThug wrote:

Do you think your SVS was not performing to its specs with their power cord, or is it now functioning beyond their specs with the PS cord?
I'm using Polk Audio power cords on my SVS' and my in-room response is solid to 16hz. The Polk power cords look much wimpier than the SVS cords, but the SVS's were too short for my application.

My listening observations were the PS Power cord sounded better than the 18 guage cheapo. I don't know if the SVS was performing up to spec or not. The sub didn't sound bad with the OEM cable, but it sounded much better with the PS Audio cord.

SVS offers an "upgrade" to their standard cord when you are in the process of purchasing a sub. Marketing, yes. Is it an admission that the better cable will offer an improvement? I think YES!

Carl

Tour2ma

Well... I think we're making some progress as most of the wire dissenters are qualifying their comments with provisos such as "so long as it is well constructed" or "so long as it is adequately sized."

At least johnADA started down that road in his first post. Second post? More of a right turn into the "believers are a bunch of idiots" ditch...

Tour2ma

jeffwalter wrote:

I do not claim to be an expert in the field but I have studied the principles and worked as a technician in the medical electronics field troubleshooting electrical interference and signal integrity issues with sensitive diagnostic equipment. These systems are very suscepible to powerline interference and signal degradation. What I have found working in many cities worldwide is that the same issues arise. The power supplied to the system is of very poor quality (sucks). I have not seen power in any major metro hospital that was acceptable. It all requires stabilization and filtering. In most cases it requires regeneration to meet baseline requirements. The second most common problems are signal cable problems and interference between cables carrying power and low voltage signal cables. The diagnostic systems that I work on require extreme levels of shielding to prevent the injection of noise onto the low voltage (or in some cases even high voltage) carriers.

Exerpt from one of the more objectively compelling posts I've seen in three+ years of these debates.

We all know hospital plugs, power cords, etc. are made to a higher standard than their home equivalents, but until I read the above and the rest of jeff's post, I never stopped to think about why.

Well done, jeff...

Of course none of it matters if you do not hear a difference in your home application(s)... and that's the oldest argument of all...

Skynut

I replaced all my stock crappy interconnects and power cords.
I noticed a difference in the sound when I replaced the stock (free with vcr purchase) interconnects.
I did not notice a difference when the power cords were changed out but I did a lot of re-arranging at that same time.

I get piece of mind knowing that my cables are well built and look good.

My system sounds good enough for me (for now) and that is all that matters.

tonyb

I too replaced all my stock cords.First one was to my AVR and
the difference in sound was astounding.Ceaner,tighter bass.After
that,all my subs on the SRT'S and 3000P'S got new power cords.

unbridled_id

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuSsMaN
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/...wirematter.htm

Got an original thought or opinion?

Ouch, that's going to leave a mark that even Tide with bleach can't get out.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Considering the source I doubt it, once a pompous fool always a pompous fool.

tonyb

OK...I'll bite.....explain please.

F1nut

johnADA wrote:

If a meter cant pickup a difference in resistance.
If a meter cant show a bleed off, higher from one cable to the next showing poor shielding.
I guess than paying alot more makes it better or does it just pacify the end user???

Well I guess if you believe that, your the guy I want to sell to in the aftermarket automotive market. I got a set of wires thats 12 mm major branded that run $300, that will give you more power and better mileage than anything out there. Same EXACT PRINCIPLE, its ability to carry and the same hogwash!!

Thanks for saving us the time to prove your ignorance.

unbridled_id

....

Tour2ma

It appears that RuSsMan is another subject of which your knowledge is sorely lacking.

Russ simply reads everything and has a mind like a steel trap. All you have to do is spend a little time with him to know this to be true. All he asked was do you have any thoughts of your own on the subject.

As for the rest... he's rolled out the welcome mat for more members of this forum, those he knows well and those he's never met before, than any other member I can think of, and is a more than gracious host.

tonyb

He was just yanking your chain man.You gotta know how to take russ sometimes.We all have had our share of being blasted at one time
or another,don't take it too seriously.Try and have a good day.
Actually,I thought you called me a pompous fool.Sorry I misunderstood.
If it makes you feel better,I'll put up a picture of Russ on my dart
board and throw darts at him all afternoon.:D
Crap...that means I have to take down the
picture of LSI BOY....OH WELL...

unbridled_id

....

F1nut

You know what son, when you've been shot down in flames it's best to put your tail between your legs and hide for awhile instead of coming off as a bigger putz than you already have.

BTW, we're still waiting to hear exactly what experience you've had with cables yourself.