The EV Hate Thread

F1nut

billbillw wrote: »

seeclear wrote: »

I was just watching a show about my other hobby, RV camping, "RV there yet?". They visited Alabama and Talladega Superspeedway. It gave me an idea for a comedy skit, "the first EV in NASCAR". The driver rolls into the pit to "refuel". He goes into the facility and has a meal, takes a shower, watches a movie, gets paged that his car is "refueled", so he heads back out and everyone else is gone and the speedway is totally empty. Ha!

They could actually charge pretty quickly in a race environment. This is not some far flung dream. There has been electric vehicle racing for more than 10 years in Europe. Its called Formula E and its actually has an FIA World Championship designation, so its pretty serious. Other than the sounds, it is pretty good racing. Not a fan of electric motor whine compared to a real F1 car. The latest itteration allows charging at a rate of 600kW, which allows ~30 second pitstops in that sport. These cars can also regen brake at up to 600kW, so they can recover a lot of what the use during acceleration. Obviously, F1 style racing is different than NASCAR (which would not have much regen braking).

They used to come into the pits to change cars during the race. I tried watching it once...no thanks.

treitz3

A race, it is not...

Tom

audioluvr

Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?

F1nut

audioluvr wrote: »

Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?

There's no one in the stands.

billbillw

F1nut wrote: »

audioluvr wrote: »

Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?

There's no one in the stands.

Some fans...a few at least. I actually haven't watched it in several years. Supposedly it has gotten faster and more competitive. No more car swaps halfway.

invalid

A race car without engine sound is like a stereo without speakers.

Kex

Is the purpose of a race car to go fast, or to make noise?

billbillw

invalid wrote: »

A race car without engine sound is like a stereo without speakers.

It has sound, just not the sound we are used to. They still have a gearbox making some noise and there is a spin up electric motor sound. No earmuffs needed though.
https://youtu.be/7Xmo1UfzcJQ?si=RmtUdMBPx_7hfblu

Jstas

Ugh.

Formula E

What a snoozefest!

Honestly, Formula 1 isn't all that exciting anymore either. It's like NASCAR, turned into a 200 MPH parade of billboards.

WRC went to hybrids in 2022 and they've been nothing but problems. No added benefit in performance, economy or saving polar bears. It made the cars heavier and more unwieldy while messing up the balance and regen braking proved pretty useless since they drive using the throttle and brake only to stop completely for a road hazard or the end of the stage. Otherwise, it's right foot steering and hand brakes to induce slides.

The hybrids just turned WRC into a failurefest in the initial season with stages and rounds being won by whomever broke down the least or actually managed to finish a stage. It was near unwatchable. 2023 and 2024 season have been better but that's despite the hybrids. They tend to run out of juice before a stage series is over so they get used sparingly otherwise, it's just excess weight being drug around for no good reason. Everybody hates them and they add complexity and cost.

I heard WRC is abandoning Hybrids for Rally1 for 2025 but they will still be in the lower classes as optional. Especially in the production based classes requiring homologation.

billbillw

I've actually enjoyed IndyCar more this season than just about any other racing. There are honest lead changes, and many of them. Strategy is important, and the cars are tough man. They come out of minor collisions and keep racing, unlike F1 cars that fall to pieces sometimes by going over the kerbs. Quite a few different winners in IndyCar this season, not just the Alex Palou show. Yes, he won, but not by much.

VR3

I saw where tesla is releasing a cybertruck that will come with a generator in the frunk, seems like progress to me

invalid

Kex wrote: »

Is the purpose of a race car to go fast, or to make noise?

Both, if you are a spectator.

Kex

I can see your point, but it seems like comparing steam trains to high speed trains. Both are interesting in their own right, but the best steam trains could never do what the best high speed trains do today, and they required far more intensive maintenance.

I believe LNER Mallard (UK) still holds the official record for the fastest steam locomotive.

On 3 July 1938, Mallard claimed the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (203 km/h) during a trial run of a new, quick-acting brake, known as the Westinghouse QSA brake. The speed was achieved during the downward grade of Stoke Bank, south of Grantham at milepost 90¼, between Little Bytham and Essendine stations.

The world record for a conventional wheeled passenger train is held by a modified French TGV high-speed (with standard equipment) code named V150, set in 2007 when it reached 574.8 km/h (357.2 mph) on a 140 km (87 mi) section of track.

invalid

Kex wrote: »

I can see your point, but it seems like comparing steam trains to high speed trains. Both are interesting in their own right, but the best steam trains could never do what the best high speed trains do today, and they required far more intensive maintenance.

I believe LNER Mallard (UK) still holds the official record for the fastest steam locomotive.

That's a bad analogy, because how many people are buying a ticket to something like that. The steam locomotive would probably Garner more attention from a spectator perspective than a modern train.

motorstereo

126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.

txcoastal1

motorstereo wrote: »

126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.

Kinda like Cool Hand Luke and crew shoveling a road

Viking64

motorstereo wrote: »

126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.

They would just stop at Petticoat Junction and get a full tank of steam from that tower.

Gardenstater

I used to watch that show lol.

Thermal efficiency (well to wheel) considering how we generate most of our electricity isn't as good for EV as it is for Diesel ICE. Pretty much on par for Gasoline ICE. Environmental effects are extremely complex to analyze if you try to take everything into account and economic effects are too.

WTW (Well to Wheel) Efficiencies:

ICEV (gasoline) = 11 - 27%
ICEV (diesel) = 25 – 37%
ICEV (CNG) = 12 – 22%

EV (natural gas) = 13 – 31%
EV (coal) = 13 – 27%
EV (diesel) = 12 – 25%
EV (wind farm) = 39 – 67%
EV (Photovoltaic) = 42 – 72%

https://intapi.sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/rtuect-2020-0041

^^ I think that if you factor in the energy efficiencies of the manufacture of the EV vs ICE, they would fare MUCH worse than this, considering the mining of fairly rare materials needed currently.

Too bad they left off Nuclear and Hydro since we do more Nuclear than Wind and we do more Hydro than Photovotaic, but those might have been considered as not expandable due to current opposition in sentiments:

Natural Gas 43.1%
Nuclear 18.6%
Coal 16.2%
Wind 10.2%
Hydro 5.7%
Photovoltaic 3.9%

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Gardenstater

Unless you use rooftop photovoltaics for charging, EV operators in WV are probably decidedly less green than a diesel ICE vehicle of modern technology, since 89% of the electricity generated there is from coal. Devil's in the details.

H/T @plastic_avatar

https://www.eia.gov/state/print.php?sid=WV

ken brydson

txcoastal1

Well all though both cars are totaled from the salt water and huricane ,at least one can be taken by tow truck.

F1nut

Note, the water line in the first picture is maybe a foot high. Bet you could get in the maroon vehicle and drive away.

tonyb

wonder how all those EV's are doing in the flooded south ? Kinda curious too, what effect this type of flooding would have on insurance for them too. I mean, gas cars can take water up to a certain level and be ok, not so sure about EV's with battery packs on the bottom of the car.

audioluvr

They'll just ship them up North to sell. Then you'll have a lot of random self igniting Teslas to deal with.

tonyb

audioluvr wrote: »

They'll just ship them up North to sell. Then you'll have a lot of random self igniting Teslas to deal with.

Gotcha, kinda like those exploding pagers. lol

la2vegas

tonyb wrote: »

audioluvr wrote: »

They'll just ship them up North to sell. Then you'll have a lot of random self igniting Teslas to deal with.

Gotcha, kinda like those exploding pagers. lol

Hang on Tony I hear my pager going off...

halen

Are pagers making a comeback? Petro powered now?

F1nut

Watch the video.
https://nypost.com/2024/09/29/us-news/tesla-erupts-into-flames-inside-flooded-fla-garage-following-hurricane-helene-video/

mrbigbluelight

I see that that particular owner chose the optional Johnny Torch Package

Gardenstater

There are safer and better batteries being developed.

"Saltwater is a death sentence for traditional lithium-ion setups, corroding and subsequently short circuiting the battery, which can then interact with internal solvents to cause fires. By utilizing a saline solution’s metal ions (including potassium, magnesium, calcium, and sodium) as the battery’s liquid electrolytes, however, UCF’s new design proved much more stable while also charging faster than its lithium-ion competition."

https://www.popsci.com/technology/ev-saltwater-aqueous-batt/

"Lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) with organic electrolytes have been dominating the present electric vehicles and portable devices landscape1. Conventional organic electrolytes for LIBs are volatile and highly flammable, which will exacerbate thermal runaway, exposure to high temperatures (> 150 °C), and eventually catching fire if experiencing short circuits, overcharging, and other thermal abuse conditions in battery operation2,3. In addition, LIBs deliver limited specific power capability that is partially restricted by the lower ionic conductivities (10−2~10−3 S cm−1, normally) of the organic electrolyte compared with aqueous electrolyte (10−1~10−2 S cm−1) at room temperature4,5. Besides, the production cost of LIBs is comparatively high, which origins from the rigorous manufacturing processes, and the high cost of Li salts and organic solvents. Particularly, the proliferation of the increasing demand for large-scale electrochemical energy storage implementations has raised concerns, including the high energy density, high safety, environmentally benignity, low production cost, and durable stability6. Therefore, developing novel, safe, low-cost, and durable battery systems alternatives to traditional LIBs becomes increasingly urgent and promising to satisfy the increasing demands of advanced and high-safety energy storage7,8."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-35618-2


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