The EV Hate Thread

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,334
    billbillw wrote: »
    seeclear wrote: »
    I was just watching a show about my other hobby, RV camping, "RV there yet?". They visited Alabama and Talladega Superspeedway. It gave me an idea for a comedy skit, "the first EV in NASCAR". The driver rolls into the pit to "refuel". He goes into the facility and has a meal, takes a shower, watches a movie, gets paged that his car is "refueled", so he heads back out and everyone else is gone and the speedway is totally empty. Ha!

    They could actually charge pretty quickly in a race environment. This is not some far flung dream. There has been electric vehicle racing for more than 10 years in Europe. Its called Formula E and its actually has an FIA World Championship designation, so its pretty serious. Other than the sounds, it is pretty good racing. Not a fan of electric motor whine compared to a real F1 car. The latest itteration allows charging at a rate of 600kW, which allows ~30 second pitstops in that sport. These cars can also regen brake at up to 600kW, so they can recover a lot of what the use during acceleration. Obviously, F1 style racing is different than NASCAR (which would not have much regen braking).

    They used to come into the pits to change cars during the race. I tried watching it once...no thanks.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,884
    A race, it is not...

    Tom
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,557
    Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,334
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?

    There's no one in the stands.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,630
    F1nut wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Does everyone in the stands whisper like in golf tournament?

    There's no one in the stands.

    ee57pvxhn7ah.jpg
    Some fans...a few at least. I actually haven't watched it in several years. Supposedly it has gotten faster and more competitive. No more car swaps halfway.
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,354
    A race car without engine sound is like a stereo without speakers.
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,110
    Is the purpose of a race car to go fast, or to make noise?
    Alea jacta est!
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,630
    invalid wrote: »
    A race car without engine sound is like a stereo without speakers.

    It has sound, just not the sound we are used to. They still have a gearbox making some noise and there is a spin up electric motor sound. No earmuffs needed though.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,803
    Ugh.

    Formula E

    What a snoozefest!

    Honestly, Formula 1 isn't all that exciting anymore either. It's like NASCAR, turned into a 200 MPH parade of billboards.

    WRC went to hybrids in 2022 and they've been nothing but problems. No added benefit in performance, economy or saving polar bears. It made the cars heavier and more unwieldy while messing up the balance and regen braking proved pretty useless since they drive using the throttle and brake only to stop completely for a road hazard or the end of the stage. Otherwise, it's right foot steering and hand brakes to induce slides.

    The hybrids just turned WRC into a failurefest in the initial season with stages and rounds being won by whomever broke down the least or actually managed to finish a stage. It was near unwatchable. 2023 and 2024 season have been better but that's despite the hybrids. They tend to run out of juice before a stage series is over so they get used sparingly otherwise, it's just excess weight being drug around for no good reason. Everybody hates them and they add complexity and cost.

    I heard WRC is abandoning Hybrids for Rally1 for 2025 but they will still be in the lower classes as optional. Especially in the production based classes requiring homologation.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,630
    edited September 25
    I've actually enjoyed IndyCar more this season than just about any other racing. There are honest lead changes, and many of them. Strategy is important, and the cars are tough man. They come out of minor collisions and keep racing, unlike F1 cars that fall to pieces sometimes by going over the kerbs. Quite a few different winners in IndyCar this season, not just the Alex Palou show. Yes, he won, but not by much.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,514
    I saw where tesla is releasing a cybertruck that will come with a generator in the frunk, seems like progress to me
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,354
    Kex wrote: »
    Is the purpose of a race car to go fast, or to make noise?

    Both, if you are a spectator.
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,110
    I can see your point, but it seems like comparing steam trains to high speed trains. Both are interesting in their own right, but the best steam trains could never do what the best high speed trains do today, and they required far more intensive maintenance.

    I believe LNER Mallard (UK) still holds the official record for the fastest steam locomotive.
    On 3 July 1938, Mallard claimed the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (203 km/h) during a trial run of a new, quick-acting brake, known as the Westinghouse QSA brake. The speed was achieved during the downward grade of Stoke Bank, south of Grantham at milepost 90¼, between Little Bytham and Essendine stations.
    The world record for a conventional wheeled passenger train is held by a modified French TGV high-speed (with standard equipment) code named V150, set in 2007 when it reached 574.8 km/h (357.2 mph) on a 140 km (87 mi) section of track.
    Alea jacta est!
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,354
    Kex wrote: »
    I can see your point, but it seems like comparing steam trains to high speed trains. Both are interesting in their own right, but the best steam trains could never do what the best high speed trains do today, and they required far more intensive maintenance.

    I believe LNER Mallard (UK) still holds the official record for the fastest steam locomotive.


    That's a bad analogy, because how many people are buying a ticket to something like that. The steam locomotive would probably Garner more attention from a spectator perspective than a modern train.
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,109
    126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
    How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,230
    motorstereo wrote: »
    126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
    How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.

    Kinda like Cool Hand Luke and crew shoveling a road
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,985
    motorstereo wrote: »
    126 mph on a steam locomotive!!! That entire crew had to be seriously touched upstairs to want to participate in something like that.
    How would the fireman go about shoveling coal in the fire at that speed? No doubt there had to be a rip roaring fire to generate the power needed.

    They would just stop at Petticoat Junction and get a full tank of steam from that tower.

    o8vf4xrwkjqh.jpg

    ci3garo3u93t.jpg

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,384
    edited September 26
    I used to watch that show lol.

    Thermal efficiency (well to wheel) considering how we generate most of our electricity isn't as good for EV as it is for Diesel ICE. Pretty much on par for Gasoline ICE. Environmental effects are extremely complex to analyze if you try to take everything into account and economic effects are too.

    WTW (Well to Wheel) Efficiencies:

    ICEV (gasoline) = 11 - 27%
    ICEV (diesel) = 25 – 37%
    ICEV (CNG) = 12 – 22%

    EV (natural gas) = 13 – 31%
    EV (coal) = 13 – 27%
    EV (diesel) = 12 – 25%
    EV (wind farm) = 39 – 67%
    EV (Photovoltaic) = 42 – 72%

    https://intapi.sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/rtuect-2020-0041

    ^^ I think that if you factor in the energy efficiencies of the manufacture of the EV vs ICE, they would fare MUCH worse than this, considering the mining of fairly rare materials needed currently.

    Too bad they left off Nuclear and Hydro since we do more Nuclear than Wind and we do more Hydro than Photovotaic, but those might have been considered as not expandable due to current opposition in sentiments:

    Natural Gas 43.1%
    Nuclear 18.6%
    Coal 16.2%
    Wind 10.2%
    Hydro 5.7%
    Photovoltaic 3.9%

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3


    Post edited by Gardenstater on
    George / NJ

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,384
    Unless you use rooftop photovoltaics for charging, EV operators in WV are probably decidedly less green than a diesel ICE vehicle of modern technology, since 89% of the electricity generated there is from coal. Devil's in the details.

    H/T @plastic_avatar

    https://www.eia.gov/state/print.php?sid=WV

    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
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    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
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