The EV Hate Thread

halen

Not sure where I am missing point here. The real world pricing for insurance i shared was from Edmond Oklahoma. I also mentioned here in Dallas mine was almost 3x as much.

Not sure about the Tampon Torpedoes mentioned here.

As for the "bother my insurance person". Haha so funny. Shoot an email, receive a price. They do this for a living. If you have a good relationship, be up front about it. I just want to know how much it would cost to insure this Tesla. I personally will get either the Hyundai Ioniq 9 or Kia EV9. Weekend getaway on camping or fishing trips with my young kids outdoors. Teach them all things, real world experiences. While powering a heater or AC with the onboard batteries.

Trust me, I am locked and loaded and my kids know how to use it as well.

Once again, I am not a global warming fearing type of person. I love my fossil fuels. I also like trying out other things.

So. Reach out to your agent, post back what rates are for your location.

Cheers

halen

On Tuesdays I pack more ammo.

treitz3

Thank gawd you said, "ammo"!

*wipes brow*

Tom

halen

treitz3 wrote: »

Thank gawd you said, "ammo"!

*wipes brow*

Tom

Much love brother. Haha. Munitions.

I understand the EV Hate. It is it the EV itself but the gospel following, blinded by the wrong reasons.

For instance. All the reviewers for EV that takes a cross country trip. First, that is what they do for a living, not constrained by time. For a family, mine for instance, if I took a cross country trip for one week, much of that time is spent on charging the EV.

Which leads to my next point. Many charging stations do not charge as advertised. It takes a heck lot longer. I would rather fuel up and go along my way.

For me. A trip within a couple hours to cabins , lakes, camp grounds works great for an EV.

Anything longer would require a much longer than one week vacation.

It is not EV that I hate, it is the blind followers that spew the nonsense that are destroying it.

Cheers all.

treitz3

Me thinks that most of the hate came from the mandate.

Let's be honest with ourselves.

EV's are great for some. They supposedly help the planet, for those who care about that. They can and do serve a purpose in certain instances.

Take those instances and try to sell that to many other folks who travel and haul, then see what the responses are.....but please omit the curse words during playback.

I really do think it was the mandate. "Moving forward" should not include force. American's like options and this little ol' thing called freedom. Freedom to roam. Freedom to choose and freedom from tyranny. It is, after all, how this country was formed to begin with.

Tom

Jstas

I'm not sure why halen is taking this so personally.

The point he's missing is the point he keeps making.

Several posts about rates have been centered around the poster's local area and it's been said many, many times that the area that you live in does more to dictate your insurance rates than anything else.

I thought I illustrated that well?

That and East Bumblefluck Oklahoma is not exactly an EV hot bed. Hell, it's not even a people hot bed as livestock outnumbers people by, like, a factor of 10. So of course insurance rates will be significantly lower than the rest of the country for ALL cars, not just EVs. What you really need to look at is how does EV insurance in East Bumblefluck, OK compare to non-EV insurance in that same area. Then you will see the point that everyone is trying to make.

Additionally, running down the stats from the DoT, NHTSA and the info from the Insurance Information Institute that, literally, anyone can go access at:

https://www.transportation.gov/
and
https://www.nhtsa.gov/
and
https://www.iii.org/

You too can see the data on EVs, safety and risk that dictates insurance rates and how they are calculated. You don't need a degree as an actuarial to understand it either. You don't even need a government or industry watchdog website to understand that higher densities of a thing means higher costs of supporting infrastructure and higher risk to damage or injury which would make the insurance premiums higher by default to cover the distributed higher risk across the population. Add a propensity to burst into flames or just run off on it's own and drive into something and you now have compounded risk which...means higher premiums.

It's the same reason that a house on the outskirts of Phoenix, Arizona has a low level of premiums because risk is low. Why? Take a similar house on the outskirts of Bangor, Maine. Arizona is not prone to catastrophically damaging storms, forest fires, excessive flooding or even something as simple as a tree falling on your house. So the risk is lower meaning the premium you pay on your policy is lower because there are less ratables you have to cover.

Where you live matters. But just like the insurance on a Corvette is going to be higher than the insurance on an Equinox for many reasons, what you drive matters as well. Low volume, high cost to repair vehicles are more expensive to repair than high volume low cost vehicles. With the way insurance goes anymore, too, it's not directly based on value of the asset and cost to recover/repair. If you end up in a situation where the damage to your vehicle is extensive, it's not the cost to repair that factors in to the "totaling" of the asset, it's how much of the value the insurance company can write off on the risk vs how much you have paid in to your policy. If that difference is too great for the insurance company to recover from you quickly (within like 3 years) it's cheaper for them to write the asset off the books than it is to repair and pay you out for the minimum fair market value for the vehicle. If they can't get that value back from you within a reasonable amount of time, they will drop you as a customer and tell you that you're too high of a risk.

So there's lots of stuff that matters. But some angry guy in Oklahoma that lives no where near people is very low risk compared some angry guy in New Jersey who lives around ///ALL THE PEOPLE is very high risk and that alone means higher interest rates at the base level. That doesn't necessarily mean that a Tesla is cheaper to insure. It just means that everything is cheaper to insure and Teslas probably still have the same markup. If a Camry costs $2500 a year to insure in NJ and a Tesla costs 40% more insure in NJ that means it's $3500 to insure a Tesla. If that same Camry costs $1150 a year to insure in OK and the Tesla costs $1600, that might be half of what it costs to insure in NJ but it's still 40% more than what it costs to insure a Camry in OK.

Which means that the point that Teslas cost more to insure still stands.

As far as the bothering your insurance agent, yeah, fine, you do you buttercup but, that agent, while it's his job, doesn't need to have his/her time wasted over silly internet posturing for a quote that will never get underwritten. So just use one of the myriad of shopping tools available on the Internet and get real world quotes from multiple insurers.

The feminine hygiene product stuff? It's just absurd jokes from people poking fun at something we all know isn't true. It's just light-hearted, childish satire meant to provoke a laugh, nothing more. Lighten up and ha ha a bit. Geez.

Jstas

And also, I don't inherently "hate" EVs. In the same vein I don't inherently "hate" Bose either. Bose has make big advancement in the science and technology of audio reproduction and I don't think the hobby would be where it is today with Amir Bose. Same goes for EVs. They lag behind current tech, though, significantly and like Bose owners, EV owners have this undeserved sense of superiority. That bugs me because the underserved sense of superiority is born out of the same ignorance Bose owners tend to foist on people.

In other word, I hate the hype around them from the sheeple who believe every piece of ad copy that gets shown to them without any understanding of the technology behind it and then tell me that I'm the idiot or somehow inferior because I don't go for it. So when I see a suppository shaped Tesla trundling down the road with an inattentive driver behind the wheel, I think that the suppository is supposed to be in the ****, not the **** in the suppository.

The original Tesla roadster was way cool if not completely impractical and totally not the future that they purported it to be. It was still cool. I still like seeing the one or two I see driving around here from time to time.

I likely won't ever own an EV because they are completely impractical for me. I see them as lifestyle vehicles meant to cater to a desired and curated persona that folks want you to think of them. Anyone I know who has had to rely on one has moved away from EV as a primary vehicle and keep it now as a 2nd car or a novelty or just to "support the cause". I really don't know how a single mom of 2 kids is supposed to be able to live with a base model Tesla Model 3 and get by with all the compromises they have to make. I really don't know how someone who has to drive long distances can live with one either.

But that's me and I haven't bought a new vehicle since 2001. Everything I have I bought used except for that 1 new vehicle. That vehicle was a supercharged pickup truck that is as fast as an entry level Porsche but can still make trips to Home Depot with ease. That's been replaced with a used, full-sized, twin turbocharged SUV that is almost as fast as the pickup truck despite weighing almost 2,000 pounds more.

So I am not the EV market's targeted demographic and I get raged at for my "carbon footprint" by "eco-warriors" all the time. But, I take my big, stupid SUV and put my entire family in it, including pets, and just drive across the country to, I dunno, spend the month of August with family at the in-laws' ranch and I can get a few miles shy of 650 miles in range on one take of gas. I can travel 1200 miles and I only have to stop for gas once and when I do, it takes 10 minutes before I'm on my merry way again. I don't need a lawn chair, a blanket and a good book. I need a coffee, a ham sammich and about 27 gallons of high octane go juice. Yes, the big pig gets 24 MPG on the highway. More if I'm not hammering hard at 70+ MPH (some state speed limits are 80+) or if I can find a truck moving at a decent clip to follow. Then I've seen as high as 28 MPG in that 6000+ pound pig.

When an EV can do that, that's when I'll care about EVs. Until then, my pedantically critical eye is going to pick them apart for the farce they are and the excuse-laden, apologist owners they have.

halen

Taking things personal? That is funny. I am not. Maybe my Asian accent is coming wrong?

Those throwing out the childish words, East Bumblefluck Oklahoma, for instance. Seems to me your language is garbled, personal, and frustrated.

I live in Dallas man.

Cheers. I look forward to the continued cheerleading here. Me thinks you passed and made it to the squad. Hahahaha, so funny.

hALEN

mhardy6647

more Stellantis hate than EV hate per se, but there's more than enough hate to go around -- even at Christmas time!
https://autos.yahoo.com/hemi-v8-comes-back-won-182000674.html

Jstas

halen wrote: »

Taking things personal? That is funny. I am not. Maybe my Asian accent is coming wrong?

Maybe so? But there's not much of an accent in text.

halen wrote: »

Those throwing out the childish words, East Bumblefluck Oklahoma, for instance. Seems to me your language is garbled, personal, and frustrated.

For a guy who is above all of this you sure get bothered by mere words. And why challenge others for their quoted rates on a Tesla anything when you're not even sharing yours? My language is not garbled and frustrated, it's quite clear and while lengthy, it is well-formed and grammatically correct. It's only personal in the sense that I shared quotes that I got for me for several Teslas and the average rates that The Zebra also provided in the comparison review of the quotes.

halen wrote: »

I live in Dallas man.

So what's your Dallas rate on that Model X you had for a week compared to whatever you're driving now? 'Cause I gave the rate breakdowns for me, in NJ, for several Tesla models. They are real world numbers from real insurance companies. I just used The Zebra website to compare several at once instead of calling an agent.

https://www.thezebra.com/

Made it simple, didn't have to hassle anyone or waste anyone's time.

The Zebra isn't the only site to shop insurance quotes either. Just search for insurance comparison on Google and dozens of them pop up.

halen wrote: »

Cheers. I look forward to the continued cheerleading here. Me thinks you passed and made it to the squad. Hahahaha, so funny.

hALEN

What squad are you talking about? Who's cheerleading for what?

treitz3

Hey, John. I respect you but please lay off Halen. He is a good friend to many on this board.

Agreeing to disagree is something to consider.

Tom

halen

John.

I have posted twice my rate is almost 3 times as much as what it is in Oklahoma. Tesla Model X cost me $3000 a year. I mentioned it several times already.

I do not mean to offend anyone. I also have never shied away from anyone that I feel is a bully. Online or in person.

You have all your data points. True. But yourself somehow missed my point that I do pay almost three times as much, here in Dallas.

My original post for insurance was actually to support your data points. I respect you man, always have. I have nothing but free time now. Hell. I could fly out there anytime, hang out. Put some tunes on and throw down some drinks. I am cool like that.

Though I still owe Treitz3 that trip from some years ago. Haha. Having newborns kinda throw things off.

treitz3

Yes you do brother. You waited for the right time to listen. Bliss awaits.

Talking the walk is one thing. Experiencing it is another. You do need to GyA up here!

Tom

pitdogg2

mhardy6647 wrote: »

more Stellantis hate than EV hate per se, but there's more than enough hate to go around -- even at Christmas time!
https://autos.yahoo.com/hemi-v8-comes-back-won-182000674.html

Damn! I wonder how the 6pack V8 is going to be a thing in a fuel injector vehicle?

nooshinjohn

pitdogg2 wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

more Stellantis hate than EV hate per se, but there's more than enough hate to go around -- even at Christmas time!
https://autos.yahoo.com/hemi-v8-comes-back-won-182000674.html

Damn! I wonder how the 6pack V8 is going to be a thing in a fuel injector vehicle?

The 6-pack is an in-line turbo 6

BlueBirdMusic

This news story really angered me last month!



Rivian Earns $6.6 Billion Loan from Feds for a New Manufacturing Facility
The conditional approval would allow the automaker to complete construction on a massive factory in Georgia, increasing annual production to 400,000 vehicles.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63023964/rivian-increased-production-manufacturing-loan/

txcoastal1

Although all news reports claim 400,000 vehicles, I'm assuming this is a copy/paste typo and should state 40,000.

That being said, Rivian generated negative gross profit of $(392) million for the third quarter of 2024 as compared to $(477) million for the third quarter of 2023.

Meaning we tax payers will be on the hook for this failing idea and company as a whole, just like Solyndra

VR3

I can't even imagine running a business, taking investor money and then turning around and losing 400 million every quarter.

That would take balls of titanium

txcoastal1

VR3 wrote: »

I can't even imagine running a business, taking investor money and then turning around and losing 400 million every quarter.

That would take balls of titanium

And that is another point...
If this was profitable, a private/public corp would be all over this deal vs the fed

mhardy6647

nooshinjohn wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

more Stellantis hate than EV hate per se, but there's more than enough hate to go around -- even at Christmas time!
https://autos.yahoo.com/hemi-v8-comes-back-won-182000674.html

Damn! I wonder how the 6pack V8 is going to be a thing in a fuel injector vehicle?

The 6-pack is an in-line turbo 6

Twin turbos, if memory serves.
Stellantis reliability and two turbochargers under one hood.
What could possibly go wrong?

bcwsrt

The former CEO of Stellantis has guaranteed I have purchased my last Mopar. Their current lineup is about as exciting as ... well, I don't wanna make anyone upset, so I won't mention any particular brands. At least it was a good 20 year run and I feel like I took full advantage of the modern HEMI era.

mhardy6647

Well... he (the above-mentioned erstwhile Stellantis CEO) is gone.

sucks2beme

The feds throwing money at something is almost a 100% indicator
that it is going to fail. Fisker and LiON are prime examples.
The charging station project is just plain insane. This is my biggest
gripe on EV's and the green agenda is all the wasted money and
chasing of dead end ideas. The marketplace should be what drives
Innovativation, not some 80 year old politicians who haven't had a
good idea in their lifetime.

msg

la2vegas

msg

mhardy6647

steam, baby.


https://www.wired.com/2009/08/steam-powered-car-speed-record-broken-after-100-years/
https://newatlas.com/british-steam-car-smashes-two-world-records/12828/

smglbrth

sucks2beme wrote: »

The feds throwing money at something is almost a 100% indicator
that it is going to fail. Fisker and LiON are prime examples.
The charging station project is just plain insane. This is my biggest
gripe on EV's and the green agenda is all the wasted money and
chasing of dead end ideas. The marketplace should be what drives
Innovativation, not some 80 year old politicians who haven't had a
good idea in their lifetime.

Well, some people made out like a bandit, all on our tax dollars! Money for nothin'...

la2vegas

Those exploding EV's are back in the news. Apparently one blew up just outside some swanky hotel out in Sin City...

agingboomer

See definition of “dumpster fire”

treitz3

That wasn't because of Tesla though, FYI.

Tom