Best speaker wire

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Comments

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    .
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 4,290
    I've tended to look at spending ~10% of the price of my gear on associated cables.

    Meaning if my entire HT is about 10k of equipment, I should have about 1k TOTAL in cables connecting everything.

    In general that gets me to the mid-fi level of my stuff. Then looking for used results in good deals on cables that are for what I have now as "end-game" as my wallet can afford.

    I've spend years acquiring cables of all sorts as they went on sale and my wallet didnt take nearly the hit it could.

    Some examples:

    Powercables: Stock -> Pangea AC-9 & AC-14 -> PS Audio AC-3's
    Interconnects: Stock ->Signal Cable Analog 2 -> MIT EXp2 -> Kimber Kable Hero
    Speaker Cable: Monoprice 12 gauge -> MIT EXp2 -> Kimber Kable 8VS -> Kimber Kable 8TC (front L/R/C only)
    HDMI: Stock -> Monoprice -> Audioquest Cinnamon

    In general I've found as I moved up each provided a benefit, however moving higher up than I am now has a higher cost to benefit ratio than I AM comfortable with. Everyones wallet is diff, so someone else may go for it and thats cool, or someone else may not want to spend what I have either, which is ALSO ok.

    In general it doesn't cost a LOT to get into better cables. You just have to be super patient for deals and slowly upgrade over time. The upgrades noted above have all been works in progress since I became a member hear over YEARS.

    My fav brands for most to start with are:

    Signal Cable*
    Douglas Connection*
    Blue Jeans Cable
    Zu Audio (ebay only)

    Moving up to the next mid-fi tier IMGO gets you to:
    Wireworld (purchase from @Dskip)
    Kimber Kable
    PS Audio
    MIT

    *members here get 10% off with each vendor

    Good stuff Dan. I particularly like the part I've bolded. That should be all that needs to be said to end a cable debate.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,961
    edited December 2018
    Faustin wrote: »
    Any thoughts out there on Mogami W3103 bulk wire? Parts Express has it for $3.88 a foot.

    I picked up 20 ft. to make a split SDA cable (Neutrik Connections from Dreadnaught to Speakers) so I can't comment on how good it is driving a set of speakers.

    I will say it "looks" like a good quality, small strand OFC Copper, fairly pliable and easy to work with.

    Works very well for what I use it for.

    I use MIT S1 Shotgun Wires on my speakers, which I think is pretty hard to beat. Should be some on the Used Market that would be a good buy/choice.
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,065
    halo wrote: »
    A question about these Audioquest speaker cables:

    What is the hierarchy between these two models:

    Type 8

    Rocket 33

    It seems, to me, that the Rocket 33 & Type 8 are very similar to one another as both feature long grain copper and perfect surface copper combinations. You have to step up to the Rocket 44 for a straight perfect surface copper cable.

    The Type 8 & the Rocket 33 are similarly priced at Audio Advisor for a no frills bi-wire cable (actually, the Type 8 is just a little more expensive than the Rocket 33). @mantis ?

    Rocket 33 is a double star quad cable. meaning it has 4 conductors in a spiral side by side.

    https://www.audioquest.com/cables/bulk-spool-cables/rocket-series-bulk-spool/rocket-33

    Type 8 will have one run of 4 conductors in a spiral configuration.

    I couldn't find a raw picture but look at the link from audioquest and just one side of that cable.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,087
    hey, are you calling me cheap B)
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 17,140
    marvda1 wrote: »
    hey, are you calling me cheap B)

    Are you not?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,065
    marvda1 wrote: »
    hey, are you calling me cheap B)

    I've heard stories..... :#:#
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,087
    don't believe a word skip and ron say :)
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 17,140
    marvda1 wrote: »
    don't believe a word skip and ron say :)

    So no one else would ever say that about you huh? I think the entire lone star crowd might disagree :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,137
    DSkip wrote: »
    For $300 you could get into a pair of Wireworld Mini Eclipse 8 ft bi-wire cables. Ed bought them but is returning them to get the longer set of single wires. This is OCC copper and a really solid cable. I'm not sure you'll get much cheaper quality OCC out there.

    They're fantastic! I could even ship them direct. :)
  • halohalo Posts: 5,577
    edited December 2018
    pitdogg2 wrote: »

    Rocket 33 is a double star quad cable. meaning it has 4 conductors in a spiral side by side.

    https://www.audioquest.com/cables/bulk-spool-cables/rocket-series-bulk-spool/rocket-33

    Type 8 will have one run of 4 conductors in a spiral configuration.

    I couldn't find a raw picture but look at the link from audioquest and just one side of that cable.

    So, the Rocket 33 is the "better" cable of the two?

    Type 8:
    728852-audioquest_type_8_speaker_cables_10_pair.jpg

    Rocket 33:
    0000469_audioquest-rocket-33_550.jpeg
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,065
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »

    Rocket 33 is a double star quad cable. meaning it has 4 conductors in a spiral side by side.

    https://www.audioquest.com/cables/bulk-spool-cables/rocket-series-bulk-spool/rocket-33

    Type 8 will have one run of 4 conductors in a spiral configuration.

    I couldn't find a raw picture but look at the link from audioquest and just one side of that cable.

    So, the Rocket 33 is the "better" cable of the two?

    Type 8:
    728852-audioquest_type_8_speaker_cables_10_pair.jpg

    Rocket 33:
    0000469_audioquest-rocket-33_550.jpeg

    Flip a coin
    I was wrong. I wrongly assumed it had half the conductors when in fact according to your pictures they both had 8 conductors and according to your pictures it says nothing about LGC conductors.

  • halohalo Posts: 5,577
    edited December 2018
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Flip a coin
    I was wrong. I wrongly assumed it had half the conductors when in fact according to your pictures they both had 8 conductors and according to your pictures it says nothing about LGC conductors.

    Both feature a combination of LGC & PSC.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,148
    edited December 2018
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,571
    heiney9 wrote: »

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9

    Ok. Now you rotten, enabling bastiges got me thinking about upgrading! I guess when I get home I'm going to have to measure for required length. Probably going to be 3 meters though. Ugh.
    A bunch of modded goodies that sound "like killer sweet!"
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,571
    DSkip wrote: »
    For $300 you could get into a pair of Wireworld Mini Eclipse 8 ft bi-wire cables. Ed bought them but is returning them to get the longer set of single wires. This is OCC copper and a really solid cable. I'm not sure you'll get much cheaper quality OCC out there.

    Not to thread jack but can you use the bi-wire as single by just stacking the terminals?
    A bunch of modded goodies that sound "like killer sweet!"
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,137
    audioluvr wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    For $300 you could get into a pair of Wireworld Mini Eclipse 8 ft bi-wire cables. Ed bought them but is returning them to get the longer set of single wires. This is OCC copper and a really solid cable. I'm not sure you'll get much cheaper quality OCC out there.

    Not to thread jack but can you use the bi-wire as single by just stacking the terminals?
    The biwire end has spades and bananas. My speakers only have a single set of posts, so each post holds a spade and a nanner. Wireworld uses screw-on ends, so they're easily interchangeable.
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,137
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    I had drafted a response to you after you rebutted my previous post, but deleted before posting. I'm just not really interested in debating the matter. You have your opinion, and I have mine, and I'm happy to leave it that way.
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,326
    A few years ago I was reading on another forum. some quack was saying cables don't matter. Said he had over $25k in gear and only spent $200 on cables. What a waste of gear.

    I am happy with my AQ type 4 as with my HDMI and interconnect cables.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,709
    mrloren wrote: »
    A few years ago I was reading on another forum. some quack was saying cables don't matter. Said he had over $25k in gear and only spent $200 on cables. What a waste of gear.

    I am happy with my AQ type 4 as with my HDMI and interconnect cables.

    That was me......
    Sorry......my bad
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,571
    lightman1 wrote: »
    mrloren wrote: »
    A few years ago I was reading on another forum. some quack was saying cables don't matter. Said he had over $25k in gear and only spent $200 on cables. What a waste of gear.

    I am happy with my AQ type 4 as with my HDMI and interconnect cables.

    That was me......
    Sorry......my bad

    $25k in gear spread out over 17 states...
    A bunch of modded goodies that sound "like killer sweet!"
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,944
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    And your experience with cables is what again?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • verbverb Posts: 10,235
    Interesting video on MIT's patented multi-pole technology.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS,Cary SLP-05 Pre,Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport,Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC,Cambridge 851N streamer,Marantz SA-14 SACD,McIntosh MC300 Amp,Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable,Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner,Pangea Power Cables,Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's,MIT Shotgun S3 IC's,MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC,EAR Acute CD Player,EAR 834L Pre,Northstar Designs Intenso DAC,PASS ACA Monoblocks,Denon UDR-F10 Cassette,Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers,SVS SB12 Plus sub,MIT AVt2 speaker cables,IFI Purifier2,AQ Cinnamon USB cable,Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks,Tisbury Mini Passive Pre,Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38),Analysis Plus Oval 9's,Zu Jumpers,AudioEngine B1 Streamer,Klipsch RB-61 v2,SVS PB1000 sub,Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated,Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer,Rotel RCD-1072 CD player,Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner,Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers,Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited December 2018
    F1nut wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    And your experience with cables is what again?

    Actually we went into this a few years ago.
    After I went on a very lengthy description of a blind comparison we did at my house at our own expense to even have others stay over, none were able to prove any of the claims they had made.

    That caused a lot of anxiety among members here, and when I said we would do it again, at our expense, on this forum, no one stepped up or even was interested.

    I think the ball is in your court.

    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,819
    K_M wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    And your experience with cables is what again?

    And your experience identifying cables when you are unaware of brand?

    n92r8vpk81dx.jpg
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,326
    lightman1 wrote: »
    mrloren wrote: »
    A few years ago I was reading on another forum. some quack was saying cables don't matter. Said he had over $25k in gear and only spent $200 on cables. What a waste of gear.

    I am happy with my AQ type 4 as with my HDMI and interconnect cables.

    That was me......
    Sorry......my bad

    Doubt it, I found the thread on one of my random google searches. I think it might have been on AVS forum but this guy was bashing everything and saying any HDMI cable over $5 is a waste of money at least he was using Monoprice 16AWG for speaker wire.

    To each there own I guess.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,944
    K_M wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    K_M wrote: »

    Still does not change the fact that with short runs of wire, audio is very easily sent with very little degradation.
    There is very little room for improvement.

    Sure would be nice if you actually spoke from experience rather than parroting something you read and making a blanket judgment.

    People are sharing their own experiences rather than making a blanket judgment. You should try it some time.

    Cables matter, everything matters.

    Monster is pretty much junk.

    Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know.

    H9


    I look forward to more of your astute and caring wisdom.


    And your experience with cables is what again?

    Actually we went into this a few years ago.
    After I went on a very lengthy description of a blind comparison we did at my house at our own expense to even have others stay over, none were able to prove any of the claims they had made.

    That caused a lot of anxiety among members here, and when I said we would do it again, at our expense, on this forum, no one stepped up or even was interested.

    I think the ball is in your court.

    The ball isn't in my court, I already won the game.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • gdphotogdphoto Posts: 151
    I want to thank everyone that responded to my original question about speaker cables. I certainly learned a lot. I am first going to build a pair of cables to replace my old Monsters using Furez FZ124AS 12 AWG 4 Conductor. A 10 ft. pair will only cost around $40. I am hoping to hear some improvement. Then I'll take all of this knowledge I gained and keep my eyes and ears open for a deal on a good used pair cables by one of the big names. Like someone stated earlier...baby steps.
    Hafler DH220 Power amp Recapped
    Hafler DH110 Preamp Recapped
    Hafler Digital FM Tuner
    Virtue Audio M1 Piano CD Player
    Technics SL-1210-MK5 with a Rega Exact Cartridge
    Polk SDA1c's(Rebuilt XO's by Ben) RDO194 Tweeters
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