Power distribution and conditioning

Clipdat

But why?

Tony M wrote: »

Go with the PS audio.

Joey_V

sgmsmg wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

Reference. Not the elite. I think that’s what the other poster was suggesting.

I’ve been on the lookout, if I find one I’ll nab it.

@Joey_V Audio Advisor has an open box Furman IT Reference 20i for a pretty good price. I purchased my 15i from them and it was essentially new.

Just checked it out, thanks

Still a little expensive.

voltz

I'm using PS Audio outlets & a few of their Power cables & the "Dectet Power Center"

Tony M

I thought the plug had a LED showing it's grounded but maybe it's just showing a polarity.

I did see it has Hospital written on the face. Maybe you have to meet certain standards to be able to have that, I don't know.

I like the multitude of coats of Nickle on the contacts, without the 24K hype. Gold on a contact area would rub off quickly if used a bunch over time. But for plug and forget for a year, maybe the Pangea.

The Pangea does have a BEEFY mounting plate! A lot beefier than the PS Audio one. But if you have to remove the tabs / ears to fit in certain cases, ( I know that VERY well on plaster walls ) you would be better off with the PS Audio's pre-grooved ears as they are called.

My choice was not an easy one to make.

Me being frugal, and although I can afford the 50.00 outlet in the past year, I'd still get the 20.00 one/s.

But lastly, your stereo system is a lot more refined than any of mine, so you might benefit from the 50.00 upgraded outlets. That was why I picked one of your 2 choices after reading up on them. I didn't say just go with the 20.00 ones instead. It seems you can afford an upgraded outlet and I feel you SHOULD.

Either one seems great in their own rights.

But I see you have other people giving their experiences from owning or just what they picked to use for their system/s. They have first hand knowlege, I don't.

Maybe one day I'll be in the upgraded outlets' crowd also.

Clipdat

I'm considering the following two "total package" solutions for simple power distribution, from Pangea vs. PS Audio

Pangea Premier SE Outlet: https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Premier-SE-Outlet/dp/B01DTHF1LS/ - $50
Pangea Octet Outlet Center SE: https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Octet-Outlet-Center/dp/B06Y1WW97X/ - $300
Total: $350

PS Audio Power Port: https://www.amazon.com/PS-Audio-Power-Port-Classic/dp/B001HRDMLE/ $50
PS Audio - Dectet Power Center: https://www.amazon.com/PS-Audio-Dectet-Center-Receptacles/dp/B00969SS4G/ $500
Total: $550

The Dectet offers "both common mode and differential mode filtering", whereas the Pangea does not. The Dectet also offers two additional outlets.

The Pangea Octet offers "pure power path with zero current-limiting electronic components in the conductor path", subscribing to the "less is more approach" to design.

Something else to consider and ponder: Are the benefits of running these products negated by using the "throw away" generic power cords that are included with them? Or by using the generic power cords that came with my equipment? Do I also have to upgrade all the power cords to PS Audio or Pangea at the same time?

Edit: The instructions included with the PS Audio Dectet says the following: "We strongly recommend the use of a PS Audio PerfectWave Power™ AC cable and a PS Power Port™ AC receptacle to feed the Power Center electricity. While the supplied power cable is adequate for the task, it is not going to provide the best performance. Choosing any PerfectWave Power cable will make a significant performance improvement over the stock power cable."

I can just afford one kit, not really 5 new power cords.

Tony M

Drew, I think you're going deeper down the audio "rabbit hole".

Clipdat

I need help. Serious, professional help.

Tony M wrote: »

Drew, I think you're going deeper down the audio "rabbit hole",

Tony M

There' plenty of people here, like me too, that have the same illness.

verb

Hi @Clipdat I've been following this thread with some interest. I absolutely love the Furman Elite 15PFi that I ran for a few hours last weekend. Can I hear any sonic differences? Not sure at this point because I got my rig sort of scattered, boxes everywhere, speakers not placed optimally, etc. The basement is a mess!

I can say that I did notice that it is whisper quiet at higher volumes with no media playing. I also love the fact that I finally have some protection for my rig as well.

With regards to outlets, I can personally attest to the risks associated with the generic POS outlets that a lot of folks use. My master bedroom recently had an intermittent power outage. Power would go off, it happened a couple of times. On/Off over the period of a few weeks. Checked the GFCI's, all good. I then replaced the circuit breaker, nothing. So I then started to pull the wall outlets one by one and wtf! Notice the black wire was loose and just slid out of the outlet:

The brown wire insulation in the pic below is supposed to be white! Also notice the outlet box has discoloration due to heat. We dodged a bullet and were definitely blessed on this one.
I figured the intermittent power failure was due the loose wire moving around in the POS outlet and causing a short. It really didn't take much, the outlet is in a wall exposed to the outside. Just a little expansion/contraction due to thermal changes.

So, I plan to use a good outlet for my rigs in the basement, for many reasons, including the one above. Let us know what you decide!

Tony M

@verb. I'm glad you were persistent to find the cause of the powers intermittent supply!

Most people wouldn't do a thing. They'd just plug their stuff into another outlet ( maybe with an extension cord) and never know the danger they were in.

verb

Thanks Tony. We reflected on that quite a bit afterwards and were very thankful.

Viking64

The issue there is that they used the "back wire" holes on the back of the receptacle instead of the side terminal screws. They are faster to use when installing the receptacle, but they are way more prone to failure, particularly in a non-commercial grade device.

verb

Viking64 wrote: »

The issue there is that they used the "back wire" holes on the back of the receptacle instead of the side terminal screws. They are faster to use when installing the receptacle, but they are way more prone to failure, particularly in a non-commercial grade device.

Exactly! The black wire didn't even have any marks on the copper indicating that the push in connection took.

Tony M

verb wrote: »

Viking64 wrote: »

The issue there is that they used the "back wire" holes on the back of the receptacle instead of the side terminal screws. They are faster to use when installing the receptacle, but they are way more prone to failure, particularly in a non-commercial grade device.

Exactly! The black wire didn't even have any marks on the copper indicating that the push in connection took.

I too have installed a lot of receptacles, a lot. And I have used both methods about the same. When **** the wire down, you know when it's tight and secure but double check anyway, at least I did and would do again. My last 2 jobs I put the wires into the holes. That was a lot of recepticles and wire inserts. Every one of them without missing one wire, I made sure that those wires could not be pulled back out!

Just because I was lucky enough to test a receptical while switching one out, I found during a renovation or one of my own installs, the wire came freely out of the hole too. That's a throw away recepticle at that point. In fact, I've damaged some things to keep a dumpster diver ( like myself ) from thinking something could be used again.

That was years and years ago when I felt/saw that wire come freely out.
A great lesson learned while I was young in a sense!

I like the side mount screws now where you don't have to curl the wire around the screws. There's a wall that steers the straight end of the bare wire to the correct side of the screw that will tighten and pull the wire down. The old terminals, you could try **** the wire down under the screw, and the turning of the screw would push the wire UP and out because it would be on the wrong side of the screw.

I'm glad to live in a time where a lot of old standards have been approved upon for safety sake!

kharp1

verb wrote: »

Hi @Clipdat I've been following this thread with some interest. I absolutely love the Furman Elite 15PFi that I ran for a few hours last weekend. Can I hear any sonic differences? Not sure at this point because I got my rig sort of scattered, boxes everywhere, speakers not placed optimally, etc. The basement is a mess!

I can say that I did notice that it is whisper quiet at higher volumes with no media playing. I also love the fact that I finally have some protection for my rig as well.

With regards to outlets, I can personally attest to the risks associated with the generic POS outlets that a lot of folks use. My master bedroom recently had an intermittent power outage. Power would go off, it happened a couple of times. On/Off over the period of a few weeks. Checked the GFCI's, all good. I then replaced the circuit breaker, nothing. So I then started to pull the wall outlets one by one and wtf! Notice the black wire was loose and just slid out of the outlet:

The brown wire insulation in the pic below is supposed to be white! Also notice the outlet box has discoloration due to heat. We dodged a bullet and were definitely blessed on this one.
I figured the intermittent power failure was due the loose wire moving around in the POS outlet and causing a short. It really didn't take much, the outlet is in a wall exposed to the outside. Just a little expansion/contraction due to thermal changes.

So, I plan to use a good outlet for my rigs in the basement, for many reasons, including the one above. Let us know what you decide!

That's what's referred to as Arc Fault, and I believe some areas, if not national, the code calls for arc fault breakers. If a person is comfortable with working with electricity, or following basic safety procedures so they're NOT working with electricity, I highly recommend yearly checking all connections at outlets and switches. You're tightening a screw on to a solid conductor where the operating temp is going to fluctuate. Over time the connection will loosen. When this happens the electricity will "arc" or jump from connector to wire. This heats everything in the immediate path up, and, can start a fire inside the wall.

tonyb

Being the electrician that you are Kerry, maybe you can explain to me that design in the Butler amp.

Nice catch on that outlet. Dodged a bullet for sure. If you can't afford spending 50-60 clams on a single outlet, go to Home Depot and buy the hospital grade ones for 20.

kharp1

tonyb wrote: »

Being the electrician that you are Kerry, maybe you can explain to me that design in the Butler amp.

Nice catch on that outlet. Dodged a bullet for sure. If you can't afford spending 50-60 clams on a single outlet, go to Home Depot and buy the hospital grade ones for 20.

You give me too much credit. I'll have to study it a bit myself, amp design is a bit beyond my area of readily available knowledge. Thems guys is smart.

Mr. Sharpe

I second the furman 15pfi, it’s nice and you can disconnect the power when things are not in use or away from home:) I was having problems finding a conditioner I could do that with and the furman does this.

Clipdat

I know this is irrational, but I dislike seeing those coaxial and telephone inputs/outputs on the back of the unit. It makes me not want to buy it.

If I'm getting something specifically for a two channel audio system, I don't want unnecessary ports on the back for old fashioned phone lines and coaxial cables.

Mr. Sharpe wrote: »

I second the furman 15pfi, it’s nice and you can disconnect the power when things are not in use or away from home:) I was having problems finding a conditioner I could do that with and the furman does this.

tonyb

Clipdat wrote: »

I know this is irrational, but I dislike seeing those coaxial and telephone inputs/outputs on the back of the unit. It makes me not want to buy it.

If I'm getting something specifically for a two channel audio system, I don't want unnecessary ports on the back for old fashioned phone lines and coaxial cables.

Mr. Sharpe wrote: »

I second the furman 15pfi, it’s nice and you can disconnect the power when things are not in use or away from home:) I was having problems finding a conditioner I could do that with and the furman does this.

Why ? Just don't use those ports. People still have landline phone service and the coaxial is beneficial for cable tv. Heaven knows, nobody has problems with cable boxes/signals.

Do you use all the ports on the back of your receiver ?

Clipdat

Like I said, it's irrational. I simply don't like that they are physically there, and were included as design decision and thus costs were passed down to me, the consumer.

If I get some sort of power distribution/filtering product, I want one without antiquated telephone ports, and coaxial ports.

tonyb wrote: »

Why ? Just don't use those ports. People still have landline phone service and the coaxial is beneficial for cable tv. Heaven knows, nobody has problems with cable boxes/signals.

Do you use all the ports on the back of your receiver ?

tonyb

Nothing "antiguated" about a coaxial connection or landline phone. Of coarse you can always buy one without those ports, but having them shouldn't turn you off to a good deal either. Plenty to choose from on the power conditioning market.

TNTsTunes

Clipdat wrote: »

I know this is irrational, but I dislike seeing those coaxial and telephone inputs/outputs on the back of the unit. It makes me not want to buy it.

If I'm getting something specifically for a two channel audio system, I don't want unnecessary ports on the back for old fashioned phone lines and coaxial cables.

Mr. Sharpe wrote: »

I second the furman 15pfi, it’s nice and you can disconnect the power when things are not in use or away from home:) I was having problems finding a conditioner I could do that with and the furman does this.

I have a Furman 15pfi and I'm very happy with it. As for the coaxial input/outputs they work great. I had a ground hum anytime my cable was hooked up and I was listening to anything analogue. Once I ran my cable through the Furman the hum is gone.

My system is dead quiet, it took care of any/all floor noise I had.

The reserve power it has also helps since it maintains enough spare power to eliminate voltage changes that were happening during the high current demands while listening at high volume levels. My house wiring lacks dedicated audio circuits and leaves a lot to be desired. The Furman made it basically a non- issue.

I will be buying another one if not two of them for my other systems. All of my systems are either 2 or 2.1 channels setups. My shop is the only place I have a dedicated audio source. I have a 20 amp circuit for that system.

Clipdat

Nice review, thanks!

TNTsTunes wrote: »

I have a Furman 15pfi and I'm very happy with it.

Clipdat

I ended up going for the Pangea Audio Octet Premier XL power center.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL



My thought process/rationale was opting for the "less is more" design, and seeing how a simple power distribution strip with no filtering or surge suppression works out for me.

I opted for the highest spec model, with the gold-plated beryllium copper contacts, and "Cardas Grade One Copper" internal wiring.

Alan_r

KLapinas wrote: »

Interested to see what is being used and recommended.
I want to protect my equipment and "clean" the power going to my electronics.
Looking for the best bang for the buck.

Thanks in advance!
Keith

On a budget note, I picked up a used Monster (gasp!) HTS3500mkII a few years back. I never compared it for sound vs straight wall plug, but here’s an interesting story as to its effectiveness:

Last year, after about three years of solid use, my wife forgot to turn off the TV during a nice, severe Georgia thunderstorm. Literally everything on my rack was plugged into that HTS. As luck would have it, our house took a lightning hit that had me thinking we’d been hit by a 155mm HE shell. Blew every circuit in our main box, but not before killing our microwave and a ceiling fan. She was literally watching our Plasma TV, connected to a Polk Surroundbar 5000 system. Once we realized what happened, and I checked the house for fires, we started turning everything back on to see what was destroyed. I was sure all my equipment was toast and at the very least the TV and surroundbar system. But that Monster did it’s job. It made a loud clicking noise continuously when powered on after the hit, but my gear turned on and functions to this day. Obviously the hit killed something in the HTS3500, but it sacrificed itself for the gear it was protecting. Fully convinced, and thankful, I immediately bought a used Monster HTS5100MkII and it remains in its place today. I still have the 3500MkII, it’s sitting in the attic. Things still power up through it but the clicking tells me it needs repaired; having researched how it protects, there are parts within that Monster says should be replaced if or when it takes a hit. Given what they cost used it wasn’t worth it to me to send it in. I think I paid $75 for the 3500 and $150 for the 5100 last year. Just a personal experience that I hope no one else ever has to experience. But I will NEVER not use some sort of dedicated protection for my gear. People may laugh at the brand, but it worked for me.

tonyb

Clipdat wrote: »

I ended up going for the Pangea Audio Octet Premier XL power center.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL



My thought process/rationale was opting for the "less is more" design, and seeing how a simple power distribution strip with no filtering or surge suppression works out for me.

I opted for the highest spec model, with the gold-plated beryllium copper contacts, and "Cardas Grade One Copper" internal wiring.

Doesn't have any surge or power conditioning aspects to it though. No protection....kinda defeats the purpose, no ?

Clipdat

Defeats the purpose of what, exactly?

From what I can tell, it's "purpose" is to simply distribute the electricity out of the wall, and into 8 jacks that I can plug my components into. There's nothing in the power's path except for high quality copper wire, and the gold plated beryllium copper contacts inside the receptacles themselves. The fact that there's no current limiting surge suppression components inside is actually a benefit.

We don't really get very many thunder and lightning storms here in the SF bay area, and on the off chance that I do see lightning happening I can simply pull the cord out of the unit. However, previously even when there has been lighting occurring, I've taken no action and it's been a non-issue.

In regards to conditioners, yes, I could have spent more and got a $600-2,500 Furman unit. However, in my opinion, if I'm moving up to that level of spending for power, I'd just get a PS Audio Power Plant P3 regenerator.

tonyb wrote: »

Doesn't have any surge or power conditioning aspects to it though. No protection....kinda defeats the purpose, no ?

rpf65

Always good to have surge protection. Lightening isn't the only cause for power surges.

Clipdat

I guess I messed up and made a mistake by buying this then.

So, who are they making these products for then, aside from morons like me?

rpf65 wrote: »

Always good to have surge protection. Lightening isn't the only cause for power surges.