Power distribution and conditioning

kharp1

Clipdat wrote: »

I guess I messed up and made a mistake by buying this then.

So, who are they making these products for then, aside from morons like me?

rpf65 wrote: »

Always good to have surge protection. Lightening isn't the only cause for power surges.

Now hold it right there, pal! Don't go calling yourself names. If anyone is going to call you a moron you should be considerate enough to let it be one of us!

Those outlets have a place, say, coming out of protection or a regenerator, where extra outlets are needed.

I can't tell you how much equipment we've fried, and how much down time we've had where I work due to bad incoming power. We've had several power bumps in the last 2-3 years. Every time we end up losing equipment somewhere.

Clipdat

This is what I have currently: https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-SmartSockets-6-Outlet-Protector-K62146NA/dp/B00000J3GR/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1518323973&sr=8-3

Isn't it true that something like this isn't going to do anything against "surges" anyway? "670 joules of dissipation, 500 clamping voltage" -> I'm assuming this means that for things under this level, it's just going to pass it right on through.

The Pangea met my price requirement, and I'm in agreement with it's design goals: "The shortest path between any two points is always a straight line," observed Jay quoting a very old saying. "I designed the Pangea Audio AC Power Distribution Strips with the straightest possible path between the power in the wall and the audio or video components. There are zero current-limiting circuits or electronic components of any kind inside."

If anyone wants to Paypal me several hundred dollars so I can buy a Furman, PM me and I'll give you my email address.

kharp1 wrote: »

I can't tell you how much equipment we've fried, and how much down time we've had where I work due to bad incoming power. We've had several power bumps in the last 2-3 years. Every time we end up losing equipment somewhere.

verb

No morons here @Clipdat ! Only friends!

kharp1

I was just having a little humor. If this was what you wanted/needed then good on ya, mate. Yeah, those power strips are usually more harmful than helpful.

Clipdat

I don't know what I need or want, that's why I was trying to learn as much as possible in this thread. Well, I know I "want" a PS Audio regenerator, but can't afford that luxury.

If this is going to do the exact same thing that the Kensington was doing, and just let power through, then I'd rather it be let through via high quality copper wiring and good build quality.

It's unclear to me if there will be an audible improvement from the Kensington to the Pangea.

kharp1 wrote: »

I was just having a little humor. If this was what you wanted/needed then good on ya, mate. Yeah, those power strips are usually more harmful than helpful.

jdjohn

I use a Chang Lightspeed CLS-6400. I don't think they make that model anymore, but they still have the CLS series, which is their entry level line, so not crazy expensive. http://www.changlightspeed.com/ Here they talk about the evils of using coils in power conditioners, and how they are current-limiting http://www.changlightspeed.com/whya.htm#solution . I like the metal case, as it comes in handy as a grounding point in pesky turntable/preamp grounding situations.

Clipdat

Not bad. Their cheapest 8 outlet product is $1,110 though.

rpf65

http://www.panamax.com/product/max-wall-15-amp-duplex-surge-protection-MIW-SURGE-1G

You may try something like this.

Surge protection at the plug, no filtration-which it seems you don't want.

tonyb

Point was....you spent 400 bucks, roughly on this....

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL

When for the same coin you could have had something with more protection. My PS Audio quintet was cheaper. Just my opinion, your coin so buy what ya like. No harm no foul...

erniejade

I wish some of the power conditioning companies would make staggered outlets to allow for thicker cables and wall warts.

I have used Furman for... 15-20 years on my DJ rack. That home unit looks like what I use with the pull out lights. Mine has a digital volts readout.

My home units have been Panamax. I like that it has a voltage readout, USB power port on the front as well as Ethernet and detachable power cord so you can use a better shorter one if you like. The Panamax 5400 pm-11s in the same price range as the Furman.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of what has been suggested and again, none that I have seen have staggered outlets for big wall warts.

Clipdat

Cool product! I decided not to touch the outlet since it's a rental, and I don't want to get into any potential liability issues should something go wrong with the replacement outlet.

rpf65 wrote: »

http://www.panamax.com/product/max-wall-15-amp-duplex-surge-protection-MIW-SURGE-1G

You may try something like this.

I could have spent $400 on this is what you're saying:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FUEL15I

Looks like it provides surge "protection" in the form of MOVs. Similar technology as the Kensington strip I have currently.

It also offers power filtration, which may or may not have a sonic benefit.

But if we're strictly talking about surge suppression/protection, I just didn't see a "need" for it. I could be dead wrong, and there might be an actual "need" for it. I've been in this same place for 13 years and I've never had a piece of electronic equipment fail due to power surges. And I've been through lighting storms, power outages, extremely high winds, earthquakes, you name it.

Just seems like if the power was really that bad and prone to surges in my area, I would've lost gear by now or blown one of the $20 "surge strips" that my HT, Computer, and DJ setups are plugged into.

tonyb wrote: »

Point was....you spent 400 bucks, roughly on this....

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL

When for the same coin you could have had something with more protection. My PS Audio quintet was cheaper. Just my opinion, your coin so buy what ya like. No harm no foul...

smglbrth

FWIW, I use an APC H15 (for the past 7 years or so) and it works great. It seems that the H10 would be in your price range, along with some other options from them...

Viking64

I bought a Panamax M5400-PM brand spanking new in the factory sealed box with a full warranty for $300 off list, shipped. I really like it.

I just wired two dedicated 20-amp circuits directly to my gear. Each with an isolated ground commercial grade receptacle. The existing wall receptacle I had been using was fed by old knob-and-tube wiring (at least as far back as the 1940's in age). And no ground, of course.

I extracted the ground conductors from the new Romex at the panel and bonded them directly to copper. The neutral conductor from the transformer was unsheathed aluminium that was in direct contact to the panel box, and thus the ground bar.

One new circuit goes directly to my power amp and one goes to my 5400, which powers all of my other gear. There is a noticeable decrease in noise and improvement in sound. My power amp LOVES its new power source.

Clipdat

But aren't you concerned that your amp might get a power surge and die if it is plugged into the wall with *gasp* no protection?!

Viking64 wrote: »

I bought a Panamax M5400-PM brand spanking new in the factory sealed box with a full warranty for $300 off list, shipped. I really like it.

I just wired two dedicated 20-amp circuits directly to my gear. Each with an isolated ground commercial grade receptacle. The existing wall receptacle I had been using was fed by old knob-and-tube wiring (at least as far back as the 1940's in age). And no ground, of course.

I extracted the ground conductors from the new Romex at the panel and bonded them directly to copper. The neutral conductor from the transformer was unsheathed aluminium that was in direct contact to the panel box, and thus the ground bar.

One new circuit goes directly to my power amp and one goes to my 5400, which powers all of my other gear. There is a noticeable decrease in noise and improvement in sound. My power amp LOVES its new power source.

Viking64

Clipdat wrote: »

But aren't you concerned that your amp might get a power surge and die if it is plugged into the wall with *gasp* no protection?!

Nope. I wrapped a condom around the end of its power cord.

Viking64

And it isn't "plugged into the wall". This house has a 2-foot-thick stone foundation. The Romex comes through the carpet a foot and a half inside the wall.

Clipdat

Always a good idea to practice safe aural sex.

Viking64 wrote: »

Nope. I wrapped a condom around the end of its power cord.

verb

Found this on Ebay. 350 bucks. Used and stock photo, but maybe worth a shot.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FurmanELITE-15-13-Outlet-Linear-Filtering-AC-Power-Source/332536184532?epid=2284997589&hash=item4d6cb37ed4:g:k0EAAOSwu6tabme1

tonyb

Modern gear is designed to absorb minor fluctuations in power, small surges. It only takes one big surge or a lightning strike nearby to toast thousands, even 10's of thousands of dollars worth of gear. Having had lightning strikes close to my house on a few different occasions, I can attest to the money it has saved me.

When that happens, you'll wish you had spent a couple hundies on protection. It may, or may not ever happen, but the peace of mind is there.

The second benefit is noise reduction. Some PC units are better than others at this. Every electrical circuit has a certain amount of noise in it, which can get even worse depending on age, other appliances on that circuit.

You don't even realize it's there....until it's gone, then it's an eye opener. PS Audio units excel at this....as well as other well known brands.

Units that use MOV's, are one and done type units. That means once a big event happens, they're toast. Mov's also get weaker over time with constant exposure to surges. Buying a used MOV unit is risky because you don't really know what that unit has been exposed to and how much protection is left in those MOV's.

If none of that interest you, then don't buy one, assume the risk, live with the noise in your music and rock on. We aren't saving the world with power conditioners here, just your wallet and ears.

Alan_r

Clipdat: “But if we're strictly talking about surge suppression/protection, I just didn't see a "need" for it. I could be dead wrong, and there might be an actual "need" for it. I've been in this same place for 13 years and I've never had a piece of electronic equipment fail due to power surges.“

That’s what I thought brother....right up until it happened. I also “thought” I could get away with liability only on a Jeep I spent three years restoring so I could drive it once to a shop. On the way to the upholstery shop, the final touch, it was totaled by a woman in a stolen car with zero insurance. Had planned to have it appraised after the seats were done. $hit happens...all the time. Sometimes it happens to you. I guess it comes down to what’s it worth to you?

Joey_V

I'm gonna bring in the Bryston BIT15, it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the PS Audio P5 I had. I still have the aural memory fresh in my head. It won't be the best comparison, but it'll give an idea of the Torus system.

verb

Sorry @tonyb us youngsters trying to keep up.

MOV = Metal Oxide Varister?

jdjohn

Two nights ago, with a little liquid encouragement, I bought a used PS Audio PowerPlay 9000 off eBay. I really didn't think they would accept my 'make offer' bid, but by golly they did. It should be arriving tomorrow, so another weekend project.

tonyb

verb wrote: »

Sorry @tonyb us youngsters trying to keep up.

MOV = Metal Oxide Varister?

Move
Over
Verb

Clipdat

So the Pangea outlet strip came today, but thanks to the fact that after all these years Amazon still hasn't figured out how to ship things for safe transit, it arrived damaged.

I've shipped it back, but before I did so I tested out one of the outlets with a three prong power cable. The grip strength on the outlets was ridiculous. It took a considerable amount of effort and force to insert and remove a cable. I looked at the spades of the power cable and they actually had scratches/scuffs on them from how tight they were being gripped during plugging and removal. Seems excessive.

Not sure I'm a big fan of that overkill amount of grip strength to the point where it's physically scratching the blades on a power cable. Is there any actual reason for having them grip that tightly? Wouldn't this be a bad thing if you're using expensive power cords, and wanted to keep the blades in good condition, or are the metal spades of the plug just considered a "wear item"?

What do you guys think?

pitdogg2

Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.

Clipdat

I had to have one hand pressing down on the top of the unit to steady it, while the other hand was gripping the cord and had to tug and rock it back and forth slightly to get it out. It was pretty ridiculous.

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.

kharp1

Clipdat wrote: »

I had to have one hand pressing down on the top of the unit to steady it, while the other hand was gripping the cord and had to tug and rock it back and forth slightly to get it out. It was pretty ridiculous.

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.

I think that's a good thing. I don't do a lot of unplugging and replugging, but, I do slide the rack in and out from time to time and the Power Plant comes unplugged from the wall because I haven't replaced the outlet yet. Was waiting to run the 20 amp circuit first, but, may just go ahead and switch the outlets out for the time being.

Joey_V

Overkill. I don’t believe it does anything more for the sound beyond a certain point

I would run a cheap cord through it several times to loosen it

I ain’t plugging my wels on that just to scratch it

Clipdat

I tried it a few times. The outlets weren't getting any looser. The vice like grip remained the same after repeated pluggings and unpluggings. The only thing changing was the power cord's blades getting more scratches on it.

Joey_V wrote: »

Overkill. I don’t believe it does anything more for the sound beyond a certain point

I would run a cheap cord through it several times to loosen it

I ain’t plugging my wels on that just to scratch it