Power distribution and conditioning

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Comments

  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I guess I messed up and made a mistake by buying this then.

    So, who are they making these products for then, aside from morons like me?
    rpf65 wrote: »
    Always good to have surge protection. Lightening isn't the only cause for power surges.

    Now hold it right there, pal! Don't go calling yourself names. If anyone is going to call you a moron you should be considerate enough to let it be one of us!

    Those outlets have a place, say, coming out of protection or a regenerator, where extra outlets are needed.

    I can't tell you how much equipment we've fried, and how much down time we've had where I work due to bad incoming power. We've had several power bumps in the last 2-3 years. Every time we end up losing equipment somewhere.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    This is what I have currently: https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-SmartSockets-6-Outlet-Protector-K62146NA/dp/B00000J3GR/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1518323973&sr=8-3

    Isn't it true that something like this isn't going to do anything against "surges" anyway? "670 joules of dissipation, 500 clamping voltage" -> I'm assuming this means that for things under this level, it's just going to pass it right on through.

    The Pangea met my price requirement, and I'm in agreement with it's design goals: "The shortest path between any two points is always a straight line," observed Jay quoting a very old saying. "I designed the Pangea Audio AC Power Distribution Strips with the straightest possible path between the power in the wall and the audio or video components. There are zero current-limiting circuits or electronic components of any kind inside."

    If anyone wants to Paypal me several hundred dollars so I can buy a Furman, PM me and I'll give you my email address.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I can't tell you how much equipment we've fried, and how much down time we've had where I work due to bad incoming power. We've had several power bumps in the last 2-3 years. Every time we end up losing equipment somewhere.

  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    No morons here @Clipdat ! Only friends!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    I was just having a little humor. If this was what you wanted/needed then good on ya, mate. Yeah, those power strips are usually more harmful than helpful.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    I don't know what I need or want, that's why I was trying to learn as much as possible in this thread. Well, I know I "want" a PS Audio regenerator, but can't afford that luxury.

    If this is going to do the exact same thing that the Kensington was doing, and just let power through, then I'd rather it be let through via high quality copper wiring and good build quality.

    It's unclear to me if there will be an audible improvement from the Kensington to the Pangea.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I was just having a little humor. If this was what you wanted/needed then good on ya, mate. Yeah, those power strips are usually more harmful than helpful.

  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 2,987
    I use a Chang Lightspeed CLS-6400. I don't think they make that model anymore, but they still have the CLS series, which is their entry level line, so not crazy expensive. http://www.changlightspeed.com/ Here they talk about the evils of using coils in power conditioners, and how they are current-limiting http://www.changlightspeed.com/whya.htm#solution . I like the metal case, as it comes in handy as a grounding point in pesky turntable/preamp grounding situations.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    Not bad. Their cheapest 8 outlet product is $1,110 though.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    http://www.panamax.com/product/max-wall-15-amp-duplex-surge-protection-MIW-SURGE-1G

    You may try something like this.

    Surge protection at the plug, no filtration-which it seems you don't want.

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Point was....you spent 400 bucks, roughly on this....

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL

    When for the same coin you could have had something with more protection. My PS Audio quintet was cheaper. Just my opinion, your coin so buy what ya like. No harm no foul...
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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    lsi 9's
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    I wish some of the power conditioning companies would make staggered outlets to allow for thicker cables and wall warts.

    I have used Furman for... 15-20 years on my DJ rack. That home unit looks like what I use with the pull out lights. Mine has a digital volts readout.

    My home units have been Panamax. I like that it has a voltage readout, USB power port on the front as well as Ethernet and detachable power cord so you can use a better shorter one if you like. The Panamax 5400 pm-11s in the same price range as the Furman.

    I don’t think you can go wrong with any of what has been suggested and again, none that I have seen have staggered outlets for big wall warts.
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    Cool product! I decided not to touch the outlet since it's a rental, and I don't want to get into any potential liability issues should something go wrong with the replacement outlet.
    rpf65 wrote: »

    I could have spent $400 on this is what you're saying:

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FUEL15I

    Looks like it provides surge "protection" in the form of MOVs. Similar technology as the Kensington strip I have currently.

    It also offers power filtration, which may or may not have a sonic benefit.

    But if we're strictly talking about surge suppression/protection, I just didn't see a "need" for it. I could be dead wrong, and there might be an actual "need" for it. I've been in this same place for 13 years and I've never had a piece of electronic equipment fail due to power surges. And I've been through lighting storms, power outages, extremely high winds, earthquakes, you name it.

    Just seems like if the power was really that bad and prone to surges in my area, I would've lost gear by now or blown one of the $20 "surge strips" that my HT, Computer, and DJ setups are plugged into.
    tonyb wrote: »
    Point was....you spent 400 bucks, roughly on this....

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC8&variation=XL

    When for the same coin you could have had something with more protection. My PS Audio quintet was cheaper. Just my opinion, your coin so buy what ya like. No harm no foul...

  • smglbrth
    smglbrth Posts: 1,458
    FWIW, I use an APC H15 (for the past 7 years or so) and it works great. It seems that the H10 would be in your price range, along with some other options from them...
    Remember, when you're running from something, you're running to something...-me
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    I bought a Panamax M5400-PM brand spanking new in the factory sealed box with a full warranty for $300 off list, shipped. I really like it.

    I just wired two dedicated 20-amp circuits directly to my gear. Each with an isolated ground commercial grade receptacle. The existing wall receptacle I had been using was fed by old knob-and-tube wiring (at least as far back as the 1940's in age). And no ground, of course.

    I extracted the ground conductors from the new Romex at the panel and bonded them directly to copper. The neutral conductor from the transformer was unsheathed aluminium that was in direct contact to the panel box, and thus the ground bar.

    One new circuit goes directly to my power amp and one goes to my 5400, which powers all of my other gear. There is a noticeable decrease in noise and improvement in sound. My power amp LOVES its new power source. :p
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    edited February 2018
    But aren't you concerned that your amp might get a power surge and die if it is plugged into the wall with *gasp* no protection?!
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I bought a Panamax M5400-PM brand spanking new in the factory sealed box with a full warranty for $300 off list, shipped. I really like it.

    I just wired two dedicated 20-amp circuits directly to my gear. Each with an isolated ground commercial grade receptacle. The existing wall receptacle I had been using was fed by old knob-and-tube wiring (at least as far back as the 1940's in age). And no ground, of course.

    I extracted the ground conductors from the new Romex at the panel and bonded them directly to copper. The neutral conductor from the transformer was unsheathed aluminium that was in direct contact to the panel box, and thus the ground bar.

    One new circuit goes directly to my power amp and one goes to my 5400, which powers all of my other gear. There is a noticeable decrease in noise and improvement in sound. My power amp LOVES its new power source. :p

  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    Clipdat wrote: »
    But aren't you concerned that your amp might get a power surge and die if it is plugged into the wall with *gasp* no protection?!
    Nope. I wrapped a condom around the end of its power cord.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    And it isn't "plugged into the wall". This house has a 2-foot-thick stone foundation. The Romex comes through the carpet a foot and a half inside the wall. B)
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    Always a good idea to practice safe aural sex.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Nope. I wrapped a condom around the end of its power cord.

  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited February 2018
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited February 2018
    Modern gear is designed to absorb minor fluctuations in power, small surges. It only takes one big surge or a lightning strike nearby to toast thousands, even 10's of thousands of dollars worth of gear. Having had lightning strikes close to my house on a few different occasions, I can attest to the money it has saved me.

    When that happens, you'll wish you had spent a couple hundies on protection. It may, or may not ever happen, but the peace of mind is there.

    The second benefit is noise reduction. Some PC units are better than others at this. Every electrical circuit has a certain amount of noise in it, which can get even worse depending on age, other appliances on that circuit.

    You don't even realize it's there....until it's gone, then it's an eye opener. PS Audio units excel at this....as well as other well known brands.

    Units that use MOV's, are one and done type units. That means once a big event happens, they're toast. Mov's also get weaker over time with constant exposure to surges. Buying a used MOV unit is risky because you don't really know what that unit has been exposed to and how much protection is left in those MOV's.

    If none of that interest you, then don't buy one, assume the risk, live with the noise in your music and rock on. We aren't saving the world with power conditioners here, just your wallet and ears.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Alan_r
    Alan_r Posts: 164
    Clipdat: “But if we're strictly talking about surge suppression/protection, I just didn't see a "need" for it. I could be dead wrong, and there might be an actual "need" for it. I've been in this same place for 13 years and I've never had a piece of electronic equipment fail due to power surges.“

    That’s what I thought brother....right up until it happened. I also “thought” I could get away with liability only on a Jeep I spent three years restoring so I could drive it once to a shop. On the way to the upholstery shop, the final touch, it was totaled by a woman in a stolen car with zero insurance. Had planned to have it appraised after the seats were done. $hit happens...all the time. Sometimes it happens to you. I guess it comes down to what’s it worth to you?
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    I'm gonna bring in the Bryston BIT15, it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the PS Audio P5 I had. I still have the aural memory fresh in my head. It won't be the best comparison, but it'll give an idea of the Torus system.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Sorry @tonyb us youngsters trying to keep up.

    MOV = Metal Oxide Varister?
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 2,987
    Two nights ago, with a little liquid encouragement, I bought a used PS Audio PowerPlay 9000 off eBay. I really didn't think they would accept my 'make offer' bid, but by golly they did. It should be arriving tomorrow, so another weekend project.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    verb wrote: »
    Sorry @tonyb us youngsters trying to keep up.

    MOV = Metal Oxide Varister?

    Move
    Over
    Verb

    :):)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    So the Pangea outlet strip came today, but thanks to the fact that after all these years Amazon still hasn't figured out how to ship things for safe transit, it arrived damaged.

    I've shipped it back, but before I did so I tested out one of the outlets with a three prong power cable. The grip strength on the outlets was ridiculous. It took a considerable amount of effort and force to insert and remove a cable. I looked at the spades of the power cable and they actually had scratches/scuffs on them from how tight they were being gripped during plugging and removal. Seems excessive.

    Not sure I'm a big fan of that overkill amount of grip strength to the point where it's physically scratching the blades on a power cable. Is there any actual reason for having them grip that tightly? Wouldn't this be a bad thing if you're using expensive power cords, and wanted to keep the blades in good condition, or are the metal spades of the plug just considered a "wear item"?

    What do you guys think?
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
    Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    I had to have one hand pressing down on the top of the unit to steady it, while the other hand was gripping the cord and had to tug and rock it back and forth slightly to get it out. It was pretty ridiculous.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
    Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.

  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I had to have one hand pressing down on the top of the unit to steady it, while the other hand was gripping the cord and had to tug and rock it back and forth slightly to get it out. It was pretty ridiculous.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well with any luck you're not plugging and unplugging a ton.
    Yes you want a good bite but not overkill to the point you need two hands to pull it out.

    I think that's a good thing. I don't do a lot of unplugging and replugging, but, I do slide the rack in and out from time to time and the Power Plant comes unplugged from the wall because I haven't replaced the outlet yet. Was waiting to run the 20 amp circuit first, but, may just go ahead and switch the outlets out for the time being.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    Overkill. I don’t believe it does anything more for the sound beyond a certain point

    I would run a cheap cord through it several times to loosen it

    I ain’t plugging my wels on that just to scratch it
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,557
    I tried it a few times. The outlets weren't getting any looser. The vice like grip remained the same after repeated pluggings and unpluggings. The only thing changing was the power cord's blades getting more scratches on it.
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Overkill. I don’t believe it does anything more for the sound beyond a certain point

    I would run a cheap cord through it several times to loosen it

    I ain’t plugging my wels on that just to scratch it