12 Gauge vs 16 Gauge??

Kingkwas

Just realized my install company used 16 gauge speaker wire. Thinking of replacing with 12 gauge wire. Listen to stereo and HT

Is it worth it? Will there be a difference?

Thx!

Dennis Gardner

I noticed a difference in my main speakers that run full range giving a fuller and more controlled bass response. I wouldn't bother unless you are running a powerful amp and have large speakers. I left my surrounds running smaller gauge wire.

mrloren

Yes if you can re-pull it. I bet the wire they used probably says CCA on it too. Some decent Monoprice 14 or 12 AWG 100% pure copper wire will do much better. I will add more depth and bass to your sound. https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

My house came pre wired for in-ceiling speakers. The builder used 16AWG copper wire but stapled it down, I can't re-pull it either.

BlueFox

Generally speaking, it is better to have a larger speaker wire than smaller. Whether it will make much of a difference really depends on the length of the cable runs, and the level of the gear and speakers. IMO.

Whitenoise615

How bout I have an amp that pushes six channels in sanely

tonyb

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I noticed a difference in my main speakers that run full range giving a fuller and more controlled bass response. I wouldn't bother unless you are running a powerful amp and have large speakers. I left my surrounds running smaller gauge wire.

THIS ^^^^^

[Deleted User]

THESE ^^^^
Worth it? <= price + work
You should get a small bump but...

VSAT88

mrloren wrote: »

Yes if you can re-pull it. I bet the wire they used probably says CCA on it too. Some decent Monoprice 14 or 12 AWG 100% pure copper wire will do much better. I will add more depth and bass to your sound. https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

My house came pre wired for in-ceiling speakers. The builder used 16AWG copper wire but stapled it down, I can't re-pull it either.

Installer for 15 years, staple a wire inside a wall ?? Absurd.

decal

VSAT88 wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

Yes if you can re-pull it. I bet the wire they used probably says CCA on it too. Some decent Monoprice 14 or 12 AWG 100% pure copper wire will do much better. I will add more depth and bass to your sound. https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

My house came pre wired for in-ceiling speakers. The builder used 16AWG copper wire but stapled it down, I can't re-pull it either.

Installer for 15 years, staple a wire inside a wall ?? Absurd.

Maybe where you are but it's code in a lot of places.

mrloren

VSAT88 wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

Yes if you can re-pull it. I bet the wire they used probably says CCA on it too. Some decent Monoprice 14 or 12 AWG 100% pure copper wire will do much better. I will add more depth and bass to your sound. https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

My house came pre wired for in-ceiling speakers. The builder used 16AWG copper wire but stapled it down, I can't re-pull it either.

Installer for 15 years, staple a wire inside a wall ?? Absurd.

last time I moved my in-ceiling speakers I gave the wire a couple of good tugs and it would not break free either. I would love to pull some 14awg through to them. The way they wired up my house was total mess.

mantis

BlueFox wrote: »

Generally speaking, it is better to have a larger speaker wire than smaller. Whether it will make much of a difference really depends on the length of the cable runs, and the level of the gear and speakers. IMO.

Agreed.

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F1nut

There's so much more to quality cable than gauge.

BlueFox

At least it is a start. If someone hears an improvement with a larger wire then maybe, just maybe, they might start thinking. Once you actually start thinking then a lot of preconceived ideas fall apart.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

At least it is a start. If someone hears an improvement with a larger wire then maybe, just maybe, they might start thinking. Once you actually start thinking then a lot of preconceived ideas fall apart.

Exactly Bud, most people when they do dip their toes into better quality cables kick themselves for not doing it sooner.

mrloren

tonyb wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

At least it is a start. If someone hears an improvement with a larger wire then maybe, just maybe, they might start thinking. Once you actually start thinking then a lot of preconceived ideas fall apart.

Exactly Bud, most people when they do dip their toes into better quality cables kick themselves for not doing it sooner.

I'm one of them who kicked themselves.. just not hard

mhardy6647

F1nut wrote: »

There's so much more to quality cable than gauge.

ain't that the truth.

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tonyb

DonnerUndBlitzen wrote: »

I found a table for recommended gauge and speaker wire lengths at the Audioholics website. There are several interesting articles on speaker wire and other connects at this website and they have a forum that deals with such questions. A ton of stuff to read and I have only got my toes wet.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

You can read everything on the internet or forums about cables and still come away just as confused as you were before. You just have to try a few things yourself is all, like kissing a few frogs before you find your Prince.

You can narrow that down some by listening to folks who may be roughly the same age as you, have similar gear and musical tastes. The reason I added age into that is because our hearing changes as we get older. What sounds good to a 20 year old may be a tad harsh for me.

[Deleted User]

There are plenty of $cables$ out there w/ surprising little gain

For a speaker cable budget starting out I'd try
(Receiver + Speakers) * 10% = top end on Fronts
Good solid "cheap" cable on everything else

It doesn't work that way, but as stated above you have to start somewhere.

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mhardy6647

tonyb wrote: »

...
You can read everything on the internet or forums about cables and still come away just as confused as you were before.

Now that is an understatement. There's a plethora of quasi-scientific drivel to be waded through.

You just have to try a few things yourself is all, like kissing a few frogs before you find your Prince.

You can narrow that down some by listening to folks who may be roughly the same age as you, have similar gear and musical tastes. The reason I added age into that is because our hearing changes as we get older. What sounds good to a 20 year old may be a tad harsh for me.

Oh, yes.

The best thing in the world in hi fi is to listen much and talk little I am terrible at the latter; I try pretty hard at the former.

"A tad harsh" -- as in Klipsch Cornwall on a 1960s solid state amplifier harsh -- best avoided

tonyb

DonnerUndBlitzen wrote: »

I like the general guidelines I found at Audioholics for speaker wire/interconnects. The table for speaker wire gauge and length of speaker wire run at Adioholics was helpful for me. It was about twice as conservative as a similar table I saw last summer. It gave me a good baseline and benchmark to go by. They also had a reasonable, ballpark figure for how much to spend on cables/interconnects based on the cost of my equipment. They recommended spending up to 5% and beyond that money could be better spent in other areas to improve my audio system. Info on "What should I buy and why and how much should I spend?" is very helpful.

Audioholics also had some recommended vendors such as Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable (BJC). I learned at BJC website that they are a local, Seattle based company committed to making quality products at reasonable prices. I can stay within the 5% benchmark at BJC and other vendors.

I would disagree with that statement. A system worth 1000 bucks and your spending 50 bucks on cables.....speaker and interconnects ? That to me is a recipe for bad sound. Even the most mid-fi system though will reach 2-3k easily, and that 5% rule means 150 bucks ? Not convinced....

Monoprice and BJ cables cater to the entry level crowd in my opinion. Small bookies and entry level receivers may not need much more. BJ cables and Signal cables offer better quality than monoprice and other very cheap cables you'll find on Amazon. Our own Doug's cables are better than all of those 3. Buying used cables makes your dollar go even further and can offer you significant jumps per dollar verses buying new.

The thing with cables is, the better your system gets, the better your cabling needs to be. Otherwise you'll hear the shortcomings of cheaper cabling on nicer gear and speakers, and you might be tempted to place blame on that gear or speakers for the sound you hear without considering it just might be your cabling.

Like I said, you can read the pro's and con's of cables until the cows come home and still not make heads or tails of it all. That's why you have to experience this stuff for yourself, in your home, with your ears, on your system.

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BlueFox

Spend as much as you can. At some point you will upgrade the AVR and/or speakers, and it will be nice to have the cable in place to let the new gear shine.

This is what is in my HT.

http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/products-vm/speaker-cables/tron-series-2/venom-sp-detail

tonyb

Bud, your in a different playground than he is.

Forget about spending bigger coin on HDMI cables, RCA mini jack, Ethernet. The place you want to put better cabling in is with speaker cables, RCA interconnects, digital coax. If your using digital toslink, I wouldn't go out of my way for that one.

I don't believe in a set amount to spend, only in what one can afford....and makes sense. I don't believe in 500 buck speaker cables for A3's as an example, or 200 buck IC's for a 300 buck receiver/amp going to those A3's.

That said, you can do very well under 200 bucks for speaker cables on the used market, and I'd start there. Few forum members did just that recently with older Audioquest cables and were simply dumbfounded at their improvements.

The other RCA interconnects can be had for around 100 bucks a set also that will knock the snot out of monoprice. We didn't even touch on power cords either.

I'm not saying run out tomorrow and buy all new cables. Keep your eyes open for good stuff that comes up for sale is all. Experiment a little. Nobody is a better judge than you.

F1nut

DonnerUndBlitzen wrote: »

I found a table for recommended gauge and speaker wire lengths at the Audioholics website. There are several interesting articles on speaker wire and other connects at this website and they have a forum that deals with such questions. A ton of stuff to read and I have only got my toes wet.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

Do yourself a favor and forget you ever read anything on that site. They are the kings of the naysayers.

BlueFox

Tony, all I saying is get your foundation in place first. Then as you upgrade gear it will be working at, or near, its best. Of course, few do that. We all buy stuff, then upgrade it again and again. While fun to experience the improvements those upgrades bring, it does get expensive and time consuming. While moderately expensive ($595), the Shunyata Venom speaker cables perform quite well for the price. Of course, I also used Home Depot twisted, stranded, 12 gauge copper in my HT at first, and did like it.

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lightman1