This is not a good winter

markmarc

Until yesterday, it has been dryer, sunnier, and warmer than normal. A couple of ski areas here on Mt. Hood haven't even opened this year. I type this as Im enjoying a snow day IRONIC!

tonyb

Climate models have been proven wrong time and time again. I would like to see a time lapse camera of both Polar ice shelves as they expand and shrink....before man was even on the radar. Glaciers going wild, then retracting...species of animals that once were, but have gone away long before man.

It's called nature...been around longer than us and guess what ? It occasionally changes....all by itself. No amount of money will change that basic concept....no behavior will either.

But...we all enjoy choices. If giving your money away to con men is your bag, knock yourself out. Who am I to tell people how to spend their coin. My problem with the whole thing is once that choice is taken away and your coin forcibly taken and handed to the con men, then I get a tad pissed off.

tonyb

In addition, there are 3 words that should be in everyones vocabulary when discussing these things, as well as others. It's called, "Return on Investment". We use those 3 words in other aspects of our lives, even audio, but fall short when discussing our country or policies put forth. Think about that for a second, certainly a bunch of examples would come to mind.

mhardy6647

I have a somewhat different return on investment perspective. If it makes one feel good to -- drive a hybrid, use geothermal heat, install photovoltaic panels, etc. -- well, there's value in that.

I don't see it as even a tiny bit different than assessing the return on investment of a pair of $3000 "interconnects" for a hifi.

Neither set of choices are very rational (rationalizable) investments, I'd opine.

westmassguy

tonyb wrote: »

In addition, there are 3 words that should be in everyones vocabulary when discussing these things, as well as others. It's called, "Return on Investment". We use those 3 words in other aspects of our lives, even audio, but fall short when discussing our country or policies put forth. Think about that for a second, certainly a bunch of examples would come to mind.

Three more to consider: Follow the Money

mhardy6647

westmassguy wrote: »

Three more to consider: Follow the Money

Indeed... now that's a sensitivity I have... the wild west mentality around various "green" technologies. Talk about an industry (industries) full of con-men. It's like the aluminium siding salesmen of a by-gone era! ;-)

We spent some time working with a consortium in our old town (Harvard, MA) trying to develop a "community solar garden" of PVs for those of us interested in 'green' power but without suitable exposure to the sun on our homes or properties to make PVs practical for individual homeowners. It was a multi-year trek through state and local regulations, weird laws (that change regularly), weird financing schemes... you name it!

http://www.hsgarden.org/

When we built the new house, we sited it for solar :-)


IMG_0119 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

FWIW (and - sort of - back on topic) the best "green" investment for many folks is probably geothermal heat. The installation costs are high - but the long-term payback (fuel savings for heat and hot water) is potentially significant.

We didn't go that route - geothermal in the Granite State is a big undertaking ($)!

teekay0007

mhardy6647 wrote: »

When we built the new house, we sited it for solar :-)


IMG_0119 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

Hey, how come there's no solar panels over the area of the biggest electrical draw (the mhardy audio showroom/museum)? ;^)

madmax

mhardy6647 wrote: »

If it makes one feel good to -- drive a hybrid, use geothermal heat, install photovoltaic panels, etc. -- well, there's value in that.

+1.

I'd love to have solar panels, I drive a 33mpg car and I'd like an electric car. At first I wrote "prius" but it looked too much like "pen.s" With that said I know I am not going to save the planet because its not in any danger that we can do anything about. I do like having a minimal footprint and the aspects of efficiency, that buys you something. I would have no problem burning dirty coal to charge my electric car.

mhardy6647

teekay0007 wrote: »

Hey, how come there's no solar panels over the area of the biggest electrical draw (the mhardy audio showroom/museum)? ;^)

the hifis run on controlled thermonuclear fusion, silly...

BlueFox

I have solar panels, and it makes me feel good. I can run my Pass amps for a lot less than without the panels. After 4-5 years they will be paid off, and I will turn a profit, plus they increased my home value by at least twice what they cost. I love that good feeling.

txcoastal1

Here's a Russian scientist who gave a prediction of a mini-ice age beginning in guess what year.....2014. His prediction way made early 2010....hmmmm


http://www.wnd.com/2010/05/155225/

bigaudiofanatic

I use to be a big fan of winter camping in -5 without even flinching. However with losing 53 pounds last year I have to say cold weather effects me a LOT more. So much in fact I can not stand it as much as i use too. I do love a good snow storm though and would like a BIG one before the season is over. Looking forward to warmer weather just not 90+.

txcoastal1

Damn dude global warming did you right...you melted, congrats

bigaudiofanatic

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Damn dude global warming did you right...you melted, congrats

LMAO thanks man! It has been an amazing journey. Ya I am ready for the Ice age and zombie apocalypse.

mantis

great job man, hope you keep it off. Losing weight is probably the hardest thing to do especially when most of us have been eating so wrong all of our lives.

exalted512

nice! you're going to have to change your screen name to smallaudiofanatic
-Cody

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

I have solar panels, and it makes me feel good. I can run my Pass amps for a lot less than without the panels. After 4-5 years they will be paid off, and I will turn a profit, plus they increased my home value by at least twice what they cost. I love that good feeling.

Indeed...rock on. But your doing so to save coin for yourself, not to keep weather patterns the same. Correct ?

If so, then the problem to be addressed is why electricity costs so much and how to bring those costs down....which nobody addresses. Problem solving skills....unbelievably lacking in todays society.

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

Indeed...rock on. But your doing so to save coin for yourself, not to keep weather patterns the same. Correct ?

If so, then the problem to be addressed is why electricity costs so much and how to bring those costs down....which nobody addresses. Problem solving skills....unbelievably lacking in todays society.

Yes, I bought them for me. When I saw my electric bill for the first month of use with the amps I went YIKES!!! However, less pollution is a nice side effect.

Electricity in CA skyrocketed when it was deregulated. Frack the stock holders. Some things need to be to controlled to benefit everyone. Both cost and pollution. Or go live in Beijing.

Personally, and this is all I am going to say about this, I 100% feel the planet is undergoing a climate change induced by mankind dumping pollution into the atmosphere for 300 plus years now. I'm not stupid, and for decades the science is showing this. I suppose we could all pretend that we don't have sewers, and go take a dump in the street when nature calls. How long will that take to make your neighborhood unlivable?

nooshinjohn

^^^ there it is folks, the 'fox has spoken. The SUN is just a glowing ball 93,000,000 miles away at tens of millions of degrees, but is to far away and to stable to have any consequences for us here on Earth. Nothing else to see here folks.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

Yes, I bought them for me. When I saw my electric bill for the first month of use with the amps I went YIKES!!! However, less pollution is a nice side effect.

Electricity in CA skyrocketed when it was deregulated. Frack the stock holders. Some things need to be to controlled to benefit everyone. Both cost and pollution. Or go live in Beijing.

Personally, and this is all I am going to say about this, I 100% feel the planet is undergoing a climate change induced by mankind dumping pollution into the atmosphere for 300 plus years now. I'm not stupid, and for decades the science is showing this. I suppose we could all pretend that we don't have sewers, and go take a dump in the street when nature calls. How long will that take to make your neighborhood unlivable?

300 + years huh ? That means we started keeping records, tracking climate patterns in 1714....and had the equipment to do so....at a time when we were still crapping out in the woods ? See how silly that sounds ?

I'm all for being a good steward of the planet, doing what is plausible to keep pollution in check. But to think solar panels, electric cars, wind farms, etc are going to keep the planets climate patterns from changing.....that's borderline lunacy. The patterns will change no matter what you do, and humans need to adjust as we have in the past when patterns changed.

We have been keeping records for only about a tad over 100 years. As an analogy, would you study one person's behavior out of 6 billion on the planet and base conclusions from that one person and apply it to the other 6 billion ? Obviously not...but that's what your doing by taking a snippet of 100 years out of 4 billion.

If deregulation caused your electricity rates to skyrocket, then why do it ? If the purpose is to control behavior, for the benefit of all, then I would imagine those receiving those benefits...as in the "all", would be able to vote for themselves whats best for themselves. Don't think it happened like that did it ? So in the end, your proposing essentially that a handful of crooked politicians should have the power to decide whats best for all. Is that not the same as a tyrant...Kings and Peasants ? Looks that way in my book. Surely if your concern was over use of electricity and the accompanying pollution that goes along with that, you would not have bought monster electricity eating amps to begin with. Just sayin' is all....

Maybe I'm not getting my point across, let me try again.

Different angle...solar industry is heavily subsidized, yes ? Those subsidies come from the federal government or all other taxpayers and the electric companies themselves who collect rates from all other taxpayers also. Seeing that on average lets say, 15-20k for a medium sized house to go solar. That works in higher income places that have the scratch, not so much for the other 75% of Americans that don't. So what do they do ? They have to suck it up and eat the higher rates, while their tax money and/or higher rates goes to supplement a phony industry built on phony science to support a phony agenda and put money in the pockets of all the right people......but it's for their benefit ? I fail to see the upside so I ask you to please show me. Show me how Joe Schmoe making 50k a year out in Iowa benefits from paying higher electric rates. Show me how the same guy in Fresno benefits...or any other place. In case you are unaware, stats show that a good percentage of American citizens live paycheck to paycheck with less than 5k in their bank accounts. How does higher rates benefit them ? How would a 20k solar panel system be obtainable to these people ?

And...if it was, and they all did....would that stop tornados from ripping up the Midwest every year ? Stop winters like we see this year ? Stop hurricanes in the south...droughts out in California ? Nope...all that would still happen, but you saved yourself some coin at the expense of others and that makes you feel good....rock on bro.

Just my .02, so don't get your knickers in a twist over this.....though it certainly seems I have. LOL

Mike Reeter

[/QUOTE] FWIW (and - sort of - back on topic) the best "green" investment for many folks is probably geothermal heat. The installation costs are high - but the long-term payback (fuel savings for heat and hot water) is potentially significant.

We didn't go that route - geothermal in the Granite State is a big undertaking ($)![/QUOTE]

We invested in a Geothermal Heating in 2008, we took advantage of the 30% tax credit and received $7500. from our Power Company in rebates, we used Propane before. Our electric bill for December was $257. and January was $269. This is heating 4000 sq. ft. finished. very comfortably.

With Propane hitting over $5.00 per gallon this winter, I'm certainly glad we made the switch when we did.

4xoddic

THANX FOR THE SOAPBOX TOPIC: SCIENCE ILLITERACY (once upon my time as a Science Teacher, crusading against it was my goal)

~ 1972, I had a Geology Prof who spoke about a W KS electric co. which had proposed a NG fired plant, gotten approval & FED $, & then found it could not find a supplier. So the plant was converted to coal (using Ogallala Aquifer water). Uncle picked up the tab. Railroad had to run multiple coal trains/day.

"Holcomb Station was built to provide a reliable, economic, and environmentally responsible source of electric power for western Kansas. After receiving design approvals from the Kansas Corporation Commission and the federal Rural Utilities Service, site work started in May 1980. The facility was completed on time and on budget at a total cost of approximately $465 million. The Holcomb unit (H1) was declared to be in commercial operation on August 16, 1983."

Holcomb pop. 2,094

~ 2006 a Colorado utility approached Sunflower Elec & offered to buy electricity IF they'd just add another coal fired plant to Holcomb. Seems CO voters would NOT approve a coal-fired plant in their own fine state. ~ 80% of this power would go to CO; but the westerly winds would blow the pollution where? IF KS hurried, it could be approved BEFORE new EPA regs went into effect . . .

Gov. Sebelius denied approval. When she went to HHS; her Lt. Gov (former Rep.) was persuaded to approve the plant over the objection of his Secy. of Health & Environment, who was fired for his stand. Sunflower Elec prepared new documents; KDHE copied them as new environmental assessments; and they were presented to EPA just before new emission standards for coal went into effect. Although approved once, EPA is taking a second look, as documents show collusion between Sunflower & KDHE.

IF the plant is approved, KS WILL HAVE THE LAST DIRTY COAL-FIRED PLANT IN THE NATION. Coloradans will have cheaper electricity w/out pollution. The Ogallala Aquifer will be drained faster, as Sunflower can afford to borrow Uncle's $ to drill deeper than irrigators. It is unlikely that the pop. of Kansas will boom (doesn't take too many more people to run 2 dirty coal-fired plants than 1).

In unrelated news:

Colorado pot tourists flock from Kansas, Oklahoma
Special report: Rocky Mountain High

"In Salina, KS, it’s UberDank Destinations. For $420 guests get a ride across the border, a trip to a recreational marijuana dispensary and an overnight stay at a “smoker-friendly” hotel."

http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/colorado-pot-tourist-flock-from-kansas-oklahoma/-/21054266/24310410/-/ch2b1z/-/index.html

westmassguy

isaac hunt. wrote: »

we've had nothing but rain here in the uk for weeks
HI.
I have a great new audio forum up and running..
please feel free to take a look.
http://www.snakeoilaudio.com/
it's great fun.
cheers Isaac hunt

Reported

westmassguy

birdsdes1012 wrote: »

xem phim sexOlliOlli for the PlayStation Vita triumphs over them all, however, and paves the way for what should be another excellent year. It's also GameSpot's choice for Game of the Month for January 2014 (read more about our Game of the Month awards here). Nothing demanded our attention quite like this portable skateboarding challenge. phim nguoi lon

Another Reported

Hermitism

Freezing rain from this week's storm. It's not doing those pine trees any favors.

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Hermitism

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Hermitism

This is from a previous freezing rain storm. Already lost the middle pine tree due to freezing rain.

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tonyb

Mike Reeter wrote: »

FWIW (and - sort of - back on topic) the best "green" investment for many folks is probably geothermal heat. The installation costs are high - but the long-term payback (fuel savings for heat and hot water) is potentially significant.

We didn't go that route - geothermal in the Granite State is a big undertaking ($)![/QUOTE]

We invested in a Geothermal Heating in 2008, we took advantage of the 30% tax credit and received $7500. from our Power Company in rebates, we used Propane before. Our electric bill for December was $257. and January was $269. This is heating 4000 sq. ft. finished. very comfortably.

With Propane hitting over $5.00 per gallon this winter, I'm certainly glad we made the switch when we did.[/QUOTE]

I really like the geothermal heating concepts out there, but none seem to be in reach of the average Joe. Seems retro fitting existing homes adds to the costs but if one was to start from scratch and incorporate it while building a home, then it's more approachable. Also a lot of DIY concepts a lot cheaper that some farmers have been using to drastically cut down costs....very interesting....and no subsidies involved.

But again, people do this because of costs....not to save the planet from evil humans. Artificially raising energy prices hurts who the most ? The ones who can least afford alternatives ? Which is the majority of Americans. So once again we have policy that benefits a small portion of the population on the backs of the larger portion who can least afford it.

Would not the more simple solution be to address why rates are climbing....offer solutions to keep energy costs low for "ALL" ? If truly the sole purpose in all this is to benefit the "ALL", then you first have to remove the agendas. Highly unlikely though.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

Would not the more simple solution be to address why rates are climbing....offer solutions to keep energy costs low for "ALL" ? If truly the sole purpose in all this is to benefit the "ALL", then you first have to remove the agendas. Highly unlikely though.

Doing this and allowing energy companies to reduce their tax liability by spending pre-tax dollars to innovate more efficient RELIABLE renewable sources for the future would be the beginnings of sound policy, fiscal responsibility and less reliance on government and foreign nations...


It will never happen. It is easier to make scapegoats of the providers and victims of the consumer than to actually solve things.

Hofy

The only thing I hate about this winter is the propane "shortage". $5.20/gallon to heat my house right now. January's bill was $800!!