My 2.3 TL rebuild - so close it hurts

quadzilla

OK, thanks very much. I'll probably just get some acrylic caulk then. That should be ok, yes?

F1nut

Should be fine.

drumminman

Re: sealing cabinets, I'm getting ready to do that to my 2.3TL's. My approach is to use something that will seal them and increase the strength of the joinery. Stuff that outgasses VOC's = harmful effects on speakers, possibly caps, etc. Looked at all the the construction adhesive products at HD and Lowe's and they all had warnings about breathing the stuff while it's curing, as well as somewhat high levels of VOC's.

However, I did find this stuff at Home Depot by Loctite called Power Grab Heavy Duty Exterior Construction Adhesive. Practically no VOC's (< 0.5%), and washes up with soap and water. Also, no respiratory warnings on label, which I think means it doesn't outgas stuff that'll harm sensitive electronics.

Bought three tubes. I'll let you know how it works out.

F1nut

Ok, I've got to ask why do you guys feel the need to "seal" your speakers? The way the cabinets are made and glued up, I can't see air leakage at the seams as being a problem. Just because you might see areas that don't have glue oozing out does not indicate an air leak. Do the push test, if it passes then life is good and you just saved yourself time and money.

quadzilla

OK, that's a fair question. Some of the seams have no hot glue, no anything. It's just the two panels meeting in a corner. Every other polk speaker I've seen, even the ported ones, have all the seams sealed with hot glue, so I assume these should have had something in the corners.

That, and I've also seen a lot of people report favorable results from cleaning up and resealing the insides of the cabinets.

chumlie

Haven't forgotten , waiting on return call from my son.

drumminman

F1nut wrote: »

Ok, I've got to ask why do you guys feel the need to "seal" your speakers? The way the cabinets are made and glued up, I can't see air leakage at the seams as being a problem. Just because you might see areas that don't have glue oozing out does not indicate an air leak. Do the push test, if it passes then life is good and you just saved yourself time and money.

My speaks don't pass the push test - the mw's recede in < 5 seconds when I push the PR. The other thing is the bass response is not what it should be, even though placement is not optimal. So, I figure this can't hurt, and might help.

F1nut

My speaks don't pass the push test - the mw's recede in < 5 seconds when I push the PR.

I'd say 2 to 3 seconds is normal. That is as soon as you press in the PR and hold it, the MWxxxx's start to recede ever so slowly for about 2 to 3 seconds before coming to rest.

The other thing is the bass response is not what it should be

With all the mods you've done, the bass should be quite good. As you state your placement isn't optimal, so I'd be inclined to believe that's the issue.

drumminman

F1nut wrote: »

I'd say 2 to 3 seconds is normal. That is as soon as you press in the PR and hold it, the MWxxxx's start to recede ever so slowly for about 2 to 3 seconds before coming to rest.

They recede slowly, immediately to about the half way point and then stop until I release pressure on the PR.

With all the mods you've done, the bass should be quite good. As you state your placement isn't optimal, so I'd be inclined to believe that's the issue.

The mw's recede slowly, immediately to about the half way point and then stop until I release pressure on the PR.


I think you're right - placement is the issue, which I can't do much about. Still, interested to see what, if any, effect sealing the cabinets has. The bass is there, it's just not as prominent as I'd like it to be so I'm using a sealed sub to enhance the bottom end. I'd like to get rid of the sub.

headrott

drumminman wrote: »

The mw's recede slowly, immediately to about the half way point and then stop until I release pressure on the PR.


I think you're right - placement is the issue, which I can't do much about. Still, interested to see what, if any, effect sealing the cabinets has. The bass is there, it's just not as prominent as I'd like it to be so I'm using a sealed sub to enhance the bottom end. I'd like to get rid of the sub.

I have found that the 2.3TL's (and SDA's in general) send out the bass pretty accurately to how the recording is produced. That is, if there is a lot of bass in the recording you will hear and feel it. If there is not, you won't. Have you tried any music with prominent bass? I would think yes, but wanted to make sure. One good test song would be Madonna's "Frozen" from Ray of Light. The midsong bass thumps should feel like an earthquake it.

Greg

SDA1C

chumlie wrote: »

Haven't forgotten , waiting on return call from my son.

hehe


Madonna rules!

drumminman

headrott wrote: »

I have found that the 2.3TL's (and SDA's in general) send out the bass pretty accurately to how the recording is produced. That is, if there is a lot of bass in the recording you will hear and feel it. If there is not, you won't. Have you tried any music with prominent bass? I would think yes, but wanted to make sure. One good test song would be Madonna's "Frozen" from Ray of Light. The midsong bass thumps should feel like an earthquake it.

Greg

You're right, Greg, these are very accurate speakers which is one of their qualities I really like. Got bass, just want a little more. I have the the sub dialed in so it is outputting at a very low level, so I'm not looking for a major change.

When I do the PR test on my RTA 12C's the MW's take much longer to return than those in my 2.3TL's, and they put out a bit more bass. Different speakers, but it got me thinking.

quadzilla

I'll start posting pictures here shortly, but I've got one crossover done except for extending one lead on the resistors that are replacing the polyswitch and securing everything.

heiney9

SDA's should have no problem with bass if set up properly and with proper gear and of course source material.

H9

Face

heiney9 wrote: »

SDA's should have no problem with bass if set up properly and with proper gear and of course source material.

H9

Depending on the room. :P

headrott

quadzilla wrote: »

I'll start posting pictures here shortly, but I've got one crossover done except for extending one lead on the resistors that are replacing the polyswitch and securing everything.

Looking forward to it. Have you put them on the acrylic sheets?

Greg

heiney9

Face wrote: »

Depending on the room. :P

Properly set-up, if you have room issues, technically, they aren't properly set-up

But I do understand not everyone has the "ideal" place to set them up to maximize every aspect of performance.

H9

P.s. My buddy has 7.1 HT and a Polk PSW-650 sub in his basement HT and whenever he comes over to listen to my rig he always says, "I can't believe you don't have a sub, you get better bass from those 2 speakers than I do with my sub" and he shakes his head. He's not a big audiophile so it;s sort of perplexing to him. He has his sub set up for boom boom, thump thump, which I can't stand.

quadzilla

Here's a shot of the first completed crossover, with the exception of attaching the large inductor and the wiring harnesses. I took advice from various people, and didn't tie wrap the resistors to the board. Instead, I just used a bit of hot glue. It actually stuck to the resistors, which surprised me since the foam tape wouldn't. I also just used a couple of dabs along the length, so they do stand off the boards. I also have the acrylic board under them, but you can't really see it. It does make the whole assembly really stiff. Hopefully, it will help dampen it a bit too. Overall, placement seems to have worked out pretty well.

Toolfan66

How come you didn't put the wire bulkheads on the board? Or what ever they are called.


Looking good:biggrin:

quadzilla

Toolfan66 wrote: »

How come you didn't put the wire bulkheads on the board? Or what ever they are called.


Looking good:biggrin:

Because I couldn't find any I liked. Neither tinned copper nor brass are worthy. So despite what a giant PITA it'll be if I ever have to pull this stuff back apart, everything will be direct soldered. I don't care if it's only one tenth of one percent difference. I still want that.

Toolfan66

After I posted I figured that's what you were after.. Are you going to solder straight to the drivers and tweets?

Face

Looking good!

F1nut

quadzilla wrote: »

Because I couldn't find any I liked. Neither tinned copper nor brass are worthy. So despite what a giant PITA it'll be if I ever have to pull this stuff back apart, everything will be direct soldered. I don't care if it's only one tenth of one percent difference. I still want that.

The traces on the boards are (tin) foil clad copper and the chassis wire is tinned copper. Just saying.

Toolfan66

Good point Jesse, I didn't even think about that.

Is there any benefit in just doing a point to point crossover on say a piece of MDF?

F1nut

Larry, while there's certainly an argument for that, Tony's boards have very healthy traces. Healthy enough that I believe negates the point to point advantage.

Toolfan66

Thanks Jesse, Tonys boards are wonderful and I wouldn't do an upgrade without them, they are the best thing to hit this forum in the last year, and that's why I have a couple of extra sets in my goodie closet just in case something comes around. The set of boards I got from Ray for my 1.2tl's are very nice as well. They sure make the old boards look tiny and simplify the upgrades with more room to work with.

quadzilla

Toolfan66 wrote: »

After I posted I figured that's what you were after.. Are you going to solder straight to the drivers and tweets?

Yeah. I'm a glutton for punishment. I have to be. I'm in technology.

F1nut wrote: »

The traces on the boards are (tin) foil clad copper and the chassis wire is tinned copper. Just saying.

I know the traces are. I would've actually preferred a pure copper pad, but the boards are still excellent. I'm not using the stock harness either. Might make a difference, might not. Don't know, but it's the way I want to do it. And when you get right down to it, the solder I'm using is copper, lead, tin, and silver, but still, if I can get just a tiny bit more out of the speakers this way, I'm fine with it. And if I don't, then at least I threw everything I could think of at it to try to get a bit more.

villock

Looking good quad :cheesygrin:

quadzilla

Did some more work today. First pic I call "man down" The cabinets look so sad laying down like that. Any who, the other two show what I was talking about when I said the speakers don't seem to be sealed well. I can insider a very thin object quite a way into the crack you can (barely, in these pics) see. So I decided to just run a bead of hot glue around the edges. Never thought finding plain acrylic caulk would be so hard. Everything had silicone and/or VOC with warning about not even letting the stuff touch your skin, including the stuff that said "cleans up with water". So... I passed on all of it.

Also, finished both xovers, including getting the new cable for the large inductor done. It was a bit trickier tinning the 15.5 ga. litz than the 17.5. Not sure what made it so much harder, but the first couple of tries didn't get the center conductors tinned. Finally got that worked out. And even tinned, the 15.5 will fit through the mounting hole in the board without modification, so that makes me happy. Tomorrow I'll start on the dynamat for the drivers after family time. The new harness will be the last thing I do.

And if someone has a tip on gluing slick rubber to mdf, please, clue me in. Hot glue won't stick to what I need to mount at all. I'm thinking gorilla glue, maybe?

quadzilla

Been pushing hard today. Got all drivers dynamatted. That was both easier and a lot quicker than I expected. Also got both tweeter harnesses done, and one stereo and one SDA harness done. Taking a break, then I'll start the other stereo and SDA harnesses. After that, it'll be install the black hole, install the corner anti-resonance doohickeys, fab the new binding post plates, then put everything back together. Might even finish tonight, but it's a bit doubtful. I figure the new binding post plates will take at least a couple of hours. Pics to follow when ever I finally knock off for today.