SDA-2B-TL & Recap Completed
Comments
-
Also good words of wisdom. My 2B's certainly weren't lacking bass before I did the inductors. So a few pieces of advice:
1). Seriously. Do not make any rush to judgements about sound until the crossovers have 200 hours. Seriously.
2). I notice no mention in your mods about doing any of the gasket mods, Mlrtite for example. If the seals in the drivers that you just pulled and replaced are leaking air, the bass gets thin. Do the pressure test and check that the drivers, tweeter, passive, and crossover are all airtight.
3). Spikes help. A lot. Good suggestion by Larry.
4) Room acoustics and placement also matter a lot.
I still recommend the inductor work, but your 2B's should definitely give you plenty of bass once those xo's are cooked.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Changing tubes around are you? :biggrin:
In the pre-amp, yes. My main listening room is a little on the bright side with my favorite tubes compared to my old place. So until I can get the room dialed in, I dropped in some mellower tubes. Sparse furnishings, no curtains and lots of windows are contributing, but I'm slowly filling the room up.
I confess to still not having the office rig up and running with those wonderful tubes you sent for my tube integrated. I almost had my office completely in order last weekend but I lost the muscle to help move some heavy furniture out.
I'm very anxious to get the rig permanently set up."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Also good words of wisdom. My 2B's certainly weren't lacking bass before I did the inductors. So a few pieces of advice:
1). Seriously. Do not make any rush to judgements about sound until the crossovers have 200 hours. Seriously.
2). I notice no mention in your mods about doing any of the gasket mods, Mlrtite for example. If the seals in the drivers that you just pulled and replaced are leaking air, the bass gets thin. Do the pressure test and check that the drivers, tweeter, passive, and crossover are all airtight.
3). Spikes help. A lot. Good suggestion by Larry.
4) Room acoustics and placement also matter a lot.
I still recommend the inductor work, but your 2B's should definitely give you plenty of bass once those xo's are cooked.
Great info guys.
As per your observation, you're right. That is one thing I didn't address. I also over-tightened one of the screws on the PR and stripped the threading :eek:
I never understood how to do the pressure test. Do I hold the PR in and count how long it takes for the mid-drivers to return to original position? -
audiocr381ve wrote: »As per your observation, you're right. That is one thing I didn't address. I also over-tightened one of the screws on the PR and stripped the threading :eek:
You'll want to have words with Larry about that (TOOLFORLIFEFAN). He has just what the doctor ordered - RINGS!audiocr381ve wrote: »I never understood how to do the pressure test. Do I hold the PR in and count how long it takes for the mid-drivers to return to original position?
When you push the passive in, the drivers will pop outward. Let go of the passive, drivers pull back in. Time how long it takes them to pull in. Iirc, it should take approx 3 seconds. Less than that and you have an air leak. People doing the Mortite mods along with Larry's rings are reporting 5-6 seconds on the pressure test, and much tighter bass as a result.
Yeah, you'll be taking these speakers apart again.... Your next project is inductors, Mortite, and rings....Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
You'll want to have words with Larry about that (TOOLFORLIFEFAN). He has just what the doctor ordered - RINGS!
When you push the passive in, the drivers will pop outward. Let go of the passive, drivers pull back in. Time how long it takes them to pull in. Iirc, it should take approx 3 seconds. Less than that and you have an air leak. People doing the Mortite mods along with Larry's rings are reporting 5-6 seconds on the pressure test, and much tighter bass as a result.
Yeah, you'll be taking these speakers apart again.... Your next project is inductors, Mortite, and rings....
LOL.
I just tried the pressure test. I pushed in and let go. The drivers immediately returned to position. When I hold the passive in it takes them around 5 seconds to return to normal.
Is an air leak robbing my bass output? -
Sorry, my bad. Duh. If you let go of the passive of course the drivers fog right back in. You need to time how long it takes when you're holding the passive. Sounds like air leak isn't happening.
Now talk to Larry anyway :-)Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Sorry, my bad. Duh. If you let go of the passive of course the drivers fog right back in. You need to time how long it takes when you're holding the passive. Sounds like air leak isn't happening.
Now talk to Larry anyway :-)
Lolz.
Tell me about this Mortite my friend. -
audiocr381ve wrote: »When I hold the passive in it takes them around 5 seconds to return to normal.
Is an air leak robbing my bass output?
That's the correct way to do the test and sound's like your good. How far from the back wall are they and are they facing straight forward no toe-in or out and at least 3ft of clearance on the side. And yes an air leak will rob your bass output“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain -
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
That's the correct way to do the test and sound's like your good. How far from the back wall are they and are they facing straight forward no toe-in or out and at least 3ft of clearance on the side. And yes an air leak will rob your bass output
Cool, good to know.
Here is a pic of our room. We had some tile cracking and creaking so our landlord agreed to replace it. Problem is they couldn't find the original color of our tile and decided to replace a small section with that peachish looking color..........wow. We hate it but we're grateful to have a roof over our heads nonetheless. -
Yup, your room is the problem....
You'll never get anywhere close to the potential of those speakers if youve got that couch in between, that's gotta go. And the speakers need to come off the back wall at least 8 inches, 12 inches evern better. You should spike them off the floor, and get an area rug.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Yup, your room is the problem....
You'll never get anywhere close to the potential of those speakers if youve got that couch in between, that's gotta go. And the speakers need to come off the back wall at least 8 inches, 12 inches evern better. You should spike them off the floor, and get an area rug.
Yea, that's their new position. I didn't have them like that when I first got them. Punchy bass was still very much lacking with other positions...
Can't move the couch, and our 11 month old likes to use her walker which is extremely hard with an area rug (she snags it and doesn't get enough traction lol).
I pull them forward for critical listening. It's the best we can do in our tiny space right now :redface: -
And while we're at it, when I connected the crossover back to the big inductor, their were two black wires (One came from the "P" position on the crossover and the other came from the "R" position). I wasn't sure which way they were connected to the inductor originally so I just connected the wire coming from the "R" position to the right terminal of the inductor for both crossovers. Did it matter?
Check out the picture to see what I'm referencing. -
Your placement is really gonna hamper there ability to produce good sound. Especially any bass response. They need to be off the ball at least 8".
Besides the fact you are completely opposite the sweet spot. -
You should spike them off the floor, and get an area rug.
sorry i do not agree in this..Can't see where spikes would help on a tile floor. But that couch is a sponge just sucking up the sound. -
audiocr381ve wrote: »And while we're at it, when I connected the crossover back to the big inductor, their were two black wires (One came from the "P" position on the crossover and the other came from the "R" position). I wasn't sure which way they were connected to the inductor originally so I just connected the wire coming from the "R" position to the right terminal of the inductor for both crossovers. Did it matter?
Check out the picture to see what I'm referencing.
that is why you should always tape and label your wires and take pictures before you start anything.... rookie mistake -
No point in doing anymore mods if you can't set the speakers up properly. It's like spitting in the wind.
SDA's aren't tha difficult to set-up but there are few guidelines that are non-negotiable. You've violated a couple of them. I completely understand why, because of the little one, but you can't expect them to perform as intended if they aren't set-up properly. They will still sound very good, but not at their absolute best.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
sorry i do not agree in this..Can't see where spikes would help on a tile floor. But that couch is a sponge just sucking up the sound.
i have tile floors....adding spikes was instantly noticeable...the bass gained detail, even extension...that might be from it being cleaner, tho..
i say get some spikes....flip that couch around to face the spkrs..about 8 ft away -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Thanks for all the help and info. I will take all things into consideration.
Did you have the inductors replaced? It's weird, I just haven't experienced this yet. I'm beginning to think it's a room issue.
I think Polk got it right with the originals and they don't go bad over time, so the inductor is one component I'd leave alone.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
inspiredsports wrote: »I think Polk got it right with the originals and they don't go bad over time, so the inductor is one component I'd leave alone.
I agree and the cost and hassle to change it out for ME personally isn't worth the difference in sound. I'm just not that excited about wrestling with pulling the super glued inductors off the PCB.
That's just my take on it. I'm sure there is a performance difference, not convinced it's worth the effort. I'd work on optimal placement, better gear and some room treatments before doing a mod like inductor replacement if I was in the OP's shoes.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I wouldn't even think about replacing inductors myself. Why mess with something that works.
-
I agree and the cost and hassle to change it out for ME personally isn't worth the difference in sound. I'm just not that excited about wrestling with pulling the super glued inductors off the PCB.
That's just my take on it. I'm sure there is a performance difference, not convinced it's worth the effort. I'd work on optimal placement, better gear and some room treatments before doing a mod like inductor replacement if I was in the OP's shoes.
H9
I'm not positive about this, but believe those who are changing inductors aren't able to find exact replacements. If I've followed the discussions properly, I believe the sonic differences are based upon DCR changes (lower?) which simply allows more current to hit the low pass filter and not because the components are necessarily any better.
This might be OK at modest listening levels, but what happens to the sound quality when you drive them to their upper limits?VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
You need to re-arrange your room. That looks horrible for SDA's or any speaker really. Congrats on the upgrades.
-
Conradicles wrote: »You need to re-arrange your room. That looks horrible for SDA's or any speaker really. Congrats on the upgrades.
Guys, there is no freaking possible way to change the room unless I completely got rid of the couch, which would put me on the front page of our local newspaper the next morning. Stop bustin' my balls about it. On the other side of the couch is a play pen type of deal for my daughter and a staircase. As I said earlier, that is literally the only place they can be right now. I work from home and one other reason I purchased these speakers was to have them playing in the background while I work all day, not to sit in the "sweet spot" for hours on end. When I do want to do that, I MOVE the speakers and the couch (which is easy to slide on the tile). The reviews so far have been based on that couch being pulled out of the way temporarily and the speakers pulled forward a bit.
I live in San Diego, CA so we're paying a lot of money for a very tiny and OLD place. I wish I could setup an office/listening room but, I can't.
Impressions after 50 hours or so:
Softness has returned. I was listening to some Norah Jones and I noticed some ambient noises in the recording that I've never heard before, and that was when I wasn't trying to listen (was on the computer). I'm really enjoying them! Again, I hope the mid-bass blossoms over time. -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Stop bustin' my balls about it.
Again, I hope the mid-bass blossoms over time.
Not bustin' your balls.......just makiing you aware of the short commings of the set-up. Not fair to blame the speakers or the mods when it's mostly the set-up, and IMO, the gear you are running.
Mid bass may never blossom to your liking because of the above two reasons. Don't take it personal, we all have our limitations and imperfect senario's based on real life.
By the same token, if the speakers never reach the level of satisfaction you expect............don't automatically blame the speaker or the modifications.
That's all my posts mean.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
like h9 said above....that 2245 is a sweet reciever..it wont begin to bring out your spkrs potential...you know the rest
-
We are not busting your balls, like h9 said just trying to help. I know you said there is no other possible way but have you tried placing them on the same wall as the TV.
It looks like you have the room and it would help open them up. Plus then you could use them for TV as well. -
We are not busting your balls, like h9 said just trying to help. I know you said there is no other possible way but have you tried placing them on the same wall as the TV.
It looks like you have the room and it would help open them up. Plus then you could use them for TV as well.
Wouldn't fit on the TV wall unless we mounted the TV and got rid of the TV stand. You can get a better idea in this picture.
I'm not upset with you guys. We're doing the best with what we got. I've tried every possible setup in this room. I've had many speakers come through here. Where you see my SDA's is where the Magnepan 1.7's used to be. What was I thinking! By the way, if you guys have any interior design skills, I'd like some help making our place a little homier.
-
like h9 said above....that 2245 is a sweet reciever..it wont begin to bring out your spkrs potential...you know the rest
Hey Mike, you have the 2270 right? It doesn't do your SDA's justice? -
You mean you don't have enough space under that mirror and between the SDA's? Because it looks like a fit to me? Don't understand why you chose to put the TV on the 'other' wall. Am I missing something?
Is it because you can't fit the full sized sofa where the love-seat is?
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
