SDA-2B-TL & Recap Completed

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    Face wrote: »
    I haven't heard a piece of tube gear that you could put your ear to the tweeter and not have any idea if the system was powered on or not. There are some systems out there that come close, but they're far from cheap though!

    I didn't say that. But a really well designed tube piece should have minimal noise with an ear up to the tweeter.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I didn't say that. But a really well designed tube piece should have minimal noise with an ear up to the tweeter.

    H9

    Look who came in early.

    meters.jpg

    tfm-45.jpg

    I'm not gonna comment on the amp for a few days, I've learned my lesson (:wink:)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited June 2011
    The higher noise floor can be an issue in a system with higher sensiitivity speakers.However IMO if you must put your ear right up to the tweeter to hear the residual noise then it isn't likely to prove to objectionable.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    The higher noise floor can be an issue in a system with higher sensiitivity speakers.However IMO if you must put your ear right up to the tweeter to hear the residual noise then it isn't likely to prove to objectionable.

    Very true and sort of the idea I go by. All my gear, unless I have an ususually noisy tube, you have to out your ear right on the tweet to hear a little hiss. To me, that is completely acceptable.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    Who am I kidding? I'm going to comment on my first hour with the TFM-45.

    The "drawing me in" is gone gone gone so far (don't get me wrong, I'm going to give it time). If you're wondering what I'm talking about, PLEASE refer to post #141.

    Maybe the Marantz pre and amp work best together? Using it as a pre for the Carver isn't working. The XDA-1 as a pre sure as hell isn't working.

    OR, the new caps in the Carver new to burn in. I don't know. What say you?

    EDIT: It just needs more time. Slow down Shane, slow down.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    It just needs more time. Slow down Shane, slow down.
    .......
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    .......

    Hmmm...wife walked in with out me saying a word and says "Wow, that sounds good"

    lol
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    You know you're onto something when the wife even realizes it sounds good!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited June 2011
    You need Carver C-4000 Control Center. TFM-45 is arguably the best sounding amp in the TFM series.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    megasat16 wrote: »
    You need Carver C-4000 Control Center. TFM-45 is arguably the best sounding amp in the TFM series.

    Maybe a C-1?

    Any other budget conscious preamps that are notable?
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited June 2011
    fishbones just posted a tube pre on the FM which will smooth out that TFM 45
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    fishbones just posted a tube pre on the FM which will smooth out that TFM 45

    Not looking to do tubes at this point. Plus I need more inputs and a phono section.

    I do have this, but it kind of veiled the sound last time I hooked it up.

    image.php?image=775178&is_user=0
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Maybe a C-1?

    Any other budget conscious preamps that are notable?

    C1 or C2 seems more budget friendly than the C4000.

    When I didn't have C1, people said SH on C1 is better than that from C-4000. Well, when I have C-1, people said C2 is a better pre.

    What the heck? I sold the C-1 and kept my C-4000 coz it offers better control.

    In fact, I sold all Carver stuff less the C-4000.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    megasat16 wrote: »
    C1 or C2 seems more budget friendly than the C4000.

    When I didn't have C1, people said SH on C1 is better than that from C-4000. Well, when I have C-1, people said C2 is a better pre.

    What the heck? I sold the C-1 and kept my C-4000 coz it offers better control.

    In fact, I sold all Carver stuff less the C-4000.

    I just hooked up the Carver CT-6 preamp to the TFM-45.

    I have no clue why my little old Marantz 2245 is beating this combo out. Just feels better.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    I just hooked up the Carver CT-6 preamp to the TFM-45.

    I have no clue why my little old Marantz 2245 is beating this combo out. Just feels better.

    It is possible you haven't found a matching preamp for your Carver TFM-45.

    The Marantz has Marantz house sound and you'll accustomed to it. Besides, Marantz is an Integrated receiver unit so it's amp and preamp sections already matched better than the Carver as things stand now.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited June 2011
    Give the Carver some time to burn in. It shouldn't take as long as the speakers but at least 100hrs to smooth out.

    What are you hearing?

    The Marantz may sound smoother until the Carver breaks in. If you haven't yet turn the Pre's tone knobs to the middle. To much treble in the break in will sound like total butt crack. And turn off the Holography.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    Give the Carver some time to burn in. It shouldn't take as long as the speakers but at least 100hrs to smooth out.

    What are you hearing?

    The Marantz may sound smoother until the Carver breaks in. If you haven't yet turn the Pre's tone knobs to the middle. To much treble in the break in will sound like total butt crack. And turn off the Holography.

    He's already got the TFM-45 up for sale.......had it back two days and not even a chance to break in and it's on the for sale block. I remember taking 6 months to evaluate my gear...........two days isn't even scratching the surface.

    Again, not a fan of Carver, but it can't be that god awful to sell it in two days.

    Just stick with what you have and be done if you don't have the patience for the hobby.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited June 2011
    I just saw he put it up for sale.

    Rookie mistake, even if you have had good stuff in the past you got to give stuff a chance to break in. Two days is not even worth the time. That's why places give a 30 day money back guarantee. It takes a few days to try things out.

    I am not a big fan of Carver either but for it to sound worse than a receiver is bad. It takes time for new pieces to settle in. Which this Amp is at this point.

    Hopefully he'll learn. If not this will be fun to watch.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    I bet it's the Emo that is the issue when used in pre-amp mode. If it's the house sound, I'd be running for the hills too! :tongue::biggrin:. They tend to be bright and edgy, pair that with barely broken in x-overs and no broken in Carver and I'd probably reach for the ice pik.

    But, time would have told him where the weak link was, now he'll never know. SOmetimes just swapping cables does wonders.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited June 2011
    I forgot about the Evo, he talked about a Carver Pre as well. That is something I have never liked from Carver. Maybe on some Monitors but not on SDA's.

    He sounds like tubes would be his best bet for a pre. He likes the old Marantz because of the warmth they have. Like old Pioneer SX receivers. They just don't have the power he wants.

    I would go with a nice tube pre, (Darad) and a warm amp like B&K or Parasound. Keep the cost lower on the amp but raise the bar with the pre.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    Total rookie mistake. Dude, break-in is key. You just proved that to yourself. I just bought a new DAC. I'm playing it continuously for 300 hours before I evaluate it. You've told yourself to slow down several times already. Take your own advice already. You're trying to race as quickly as you can to a top notch system. That's not how it works...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    Basically, I committed to buying the Emo amp and the smart thing to do for me financially is to move the Carver, although I know it needed more time to experiment with.

    I reallllllly want to keep both, trust me.The rookie move was buying two amps that I couldn't afford. Thing that sucks is that I'm starting to hear things about the Carver that I really like.

    Anyone want to loan me $600? :P
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    No, but I'll help you return the Emo........that's too bad you bought it. Not really a musical amp for serious 2ch listening at all. It's as far as possible from the way you describe your Marantz.

    *shrug*, I have no idea what you were thinking, but it's your rig and your money.

    H9

    P.s. The rookie move was buying Emotiva. I say that based on everything you've posted on CP since you joined. It's as far from what you describe you want as can be. Then again, I get the distinct impression you have no idea what you want. :wink: Sorry, I gotta call 'em like I see 'em.

    You also need to slow down and evaluate incrementally all the changes you've made. Right now you don't seem to know if you are coming or going. It makes it difficult when you ask questions for us (me) to take you seriously and spend time trying to help if you just do whatever. Not that you have to follow anyone's advice to the letter.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited June 2011
    I was hoping that you would have kept the carver and bought a tubed pre to go with it.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    I was hoping that you would have kept the carver and bought a tubed pre to go with it.

    That would have been pure audio ecxtasy. And a great move forward.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited June 2011
    I'd rate the entertainment factor on this one at 9.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'd rate the entertainment factor on this one at 9.

    It's certainly creeping up that way.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It's certainly creeping up that way.

    You're right, I was being a tad optimistic. Let's call it 8.5 right now.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited June 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    You're right, I was being a tad optimistic. Let's call it 8.5 right now.

    I'd give it a 7.5,, but it's really difficult to dance to.

    maybe an 8,,I was too critical,,does have a good beat,though.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited June 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'd rate the entertainment factor on this one at 9.

    :biggrin: . . . I'm grinning (and nobody came right out and wrote it at the time) but I'm guessing I provided some entertainment value a few years ago when I was churning and burning through mods and gear myself :smile:
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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