SDA-2B-TL & Recap Completed
Comments
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seriously, to the OP...all the advice was good...for now, the best upgrade you can do is either placement in your current room or your future digs...that alone will blow you away...then more current..then maybe the 194s....then the TL mod..
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seriously, to the OP...all the advice was good...for now, the best upgrade you can do is either placement in your current room or your future digs...that alone will blow you away...then more current..then maybe the 194s....then the TL mod..
He did the TL mod with 198's........it all still need to break-in too."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
my bad....long thread...i was going in the order in which i did my upgrades...and ROOM was the most revealing
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Impressions around to 100 hours: (to lazy to actually calculate it)
You wouldn't believe who stopped by today....his name is BASS.
So, the low-end punch hasn't opened up the way I thought it would with close to 100 hours on the "burn in" process. So I pressed a little button called "loudness" which I normally stay away from, and :eek::eek::eek:
I usually keep all EQ flat, with the occasional treble reduction. Well, this Loudness button really turned the speakers into bass monsters. I mean, I've always seen the button. I just always thought it's more pure flat. Do you guys bump up bass or use the loudness button on your pre-amps?
The punch is there, the low end is there. I don't know what else to say. All it's getting is a measly 45 wpc from my vinatge Marantz 2245. I'm interested to see what will happen when the Carver TFM-45 @ 370 wpc gets in.
One complaint though, and I guess things still need time to adjust, but the highs may need to be padded down some. They aren't harsh, it just doesn't feel balanced at this point. -
300 hours is pretty much when the Sonicaps will settle down.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
Testing with a 1.5 volt battery would tell if that is the problem.
This test is amazingly fast and accurate.
:cool: -
Conradicles wrote: »This test is amazingly fast and accurate.
:cool:
How exactly do you do that test and what for?
Good to hear inspiredsports! -
Using a battery to test your speakers......
1. Take some speaker wire. Enough to reach around the speaker..
2. get a 1.5 volt battery. AA, AAA, C, or D. Just one now.. Do not use a 9volt as it may damage the speakers.
3. Connect speaker wire to the speaker.
4. Paying attention to what wire was in the positive side and what wire was in the negative side,
5. Connect the negative wire to the battery by holding it or taping it to the negative side of the battery.
6. Now tap the positive wire to the positive side of the battery and watch the mid drivers. If you are wired correctly the drivers should push forward. If something is wrong one of or both of the drivers may pull in.
Now you know if there is a problem with your wiring. -
Impressions as of today: (Modded on 5/16. Today is 5/27)
The speakers are sounding pretty good. The honey-moon phase is over so to speak. My initial shock and wow has faded, and now I listen with sober ears.
The TL mod made these speakers very different. Nothing is recessed. Vocals are up front as they should be. The highs are nice a sparkly. Not a hint of harshness. The only thing I hear that sounds a little off is that the RD0-198's don't blend very well with the mid-range drivers. I literally have to turn the treble down 3 or 4 notches to balance it out. It's not my room, I can't tell you how many speakers have come through this room and have sounded fantastic and coherent. At lower volumes these speakers sound small and thin. Almost as if they were small-not-so-good sounding bookshelf speakers. As of today they don't stack up well against other speakers I've owned in terms of detail, my favorite being the Monitor Audio Silver RS6. Nothing special until your in that sweet spot with the volume turned up, which unfortunately most times I'm not. But when I am, wow, that's where the magic is. I guess I can boil it down to them not being the best off-axis speaker.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying my speakers. They sound good. They don't sound phenomenal but I'm really enjoying the music which is all the matters. I just wanted to be the first to say that I could have enjoyed these either way, with or with out the modifications done. I liked the old smooth riding Cadillac I had before. I'm definitely enjoying the new engine. I feel like I could easily get a better sounding speaker for under $1,000. These need to be enjoyed as they are, a piece of audio history that's strength is the incredible 3D soundstage. -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Impressions as of today: (Modded on 5/16. Today is 5/27)
The speakers are sounding pretty good. The honey-moon phase is over so to speak. My initial shock and wow has faded, and now I listen with sober ears.
The TL mod made these speakers very different. Nothing is recessed. Vocals are up front as they should be. The highs are nice a sparkly. Not a hint of harshness. The only thing I hear that sounds a little off is that the RD0-198's don't blend very well with the mid-range drivers. I literally have to turn the treble down 3 or 4 notches to balance it out. It's not my room, I can't tell you how many speakers have come through this room and have sounded fantastic and coherent. At lower volumes these speakers sound small and thin. Almost as if they were small-not-so-good sounding bookshelf speakers. As of today they don't stack up well against other speakers I've owned in terms of detail, my favorite being the Monitor Audio Silver RS6. Nothing special until your in that sweet spot with the volume turned up, which unfortunately most times I'm not. But when I am, wow, that's where the magic is. I guess I can boil it down to them not being the best off-axis speaker.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying my speakers. They sound good. They don't sound phenomenal but I'm really enjoying the music which is all the matters. I just wanted to be the first to say that I could have enjoyed these either way, with or with out the modifications done. I liked the old smooth riding Cadillac I had before. I'm definitely enjoying the new engine. I feel like I could easily get a better sounding speaker for under $1,000. These need to be enjoyed as they are, a piece of audio history that's strength is the incredible 3D soundstage.
BTW, I will post more impressions after I get the Carver TFM-45 back from the repair shop which will be connect to my new Emotiva XDA-1 DAC/Preamp combo that should be here in a few hours. That might make all the difference in the world. -
Two words - better amp.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Two words - better amp.
I was going to say that, but not everyone or every situation is going to like SDA's. Perhaps they aren't for him, but I hope he keeps trying to get the sound he wants. My 1C's have none of the issues he describes, but they did when I had less than optimal gear running them.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Have you tested them to see if they were wired wrong internally?
And like nspindel and H9 said. A better amp will help immensely. -
Have you tested them to see if they were wired wrong internally?
And like nspindel and H9 said. A better amp will help immensely.
No I haven't tried that yet. Is their any easy test with out having to take out the drivers?
I have the Carver TFM-45 @ 375wpc @ 8 ohms coming back from repair next week. I'm excited to hear what that will do. -
9V battery test which I'm sure you are aware of, but you have to remove the drivers.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Wow, new DAC/Preamp has made a major improvement. I'm really hoping the Carver is the missing puzzle piece.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120164 -
As the owner of 2BTL's and a high current amplifier and some experience with Carver gear, IMHO Carver does not have the enough current output. Without naming names I would recommend an amp with high current abilities.
My 2 cents.
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
MillerLiteScott wrote: »As the owner of 2BTL's and a high current amplifier and some experience with Carver gear, IMHO Carver does not have the enough current output. Without naming names I would recommend an amp with high current abilities.
My 2 cents.
Scott
I know wattage and current are different, but it puts out 375 wpc! Could you elaborate a little on this?
I like when people name names, I don't mind
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audiocr381ve wrote: »No I haven't tried that yet. Is their any easy test with out having to take out the drivers?
I have the Carver TFM-45 @ 375wpc @ 8 ohms coming back from repair next week. I'm excited to hear what that will do.
Yes, Follow the instructions I wrote earlier in this thread. I wasn't talking about removing the drivers. Use the drivers in the cabinet. Connect the Battery to the positive and negative terminals on the back of the cabinet and look at the drivers. If they push out they are wired correctly if they pull in they are not wired correctly.
You may also see the SDA driver in the other cabinet move. and the same rules apply. If it pushes out good in bad... -
Yes, Follow the instructions I wrote earlier in this thread. I wasn't talking about removing the drivers. Use the drivers in the cabinet. Connect the Battery to the positive and negative terminals on the back of the cabinet and look at the drivers. If they push out they are wired correctly if they pull in they are not wired correctly.
You may also see the SDA driver in the other cabinet move. and the same rules apply. If it pushes out good in bad...
Thanks Joe, I didn't catch this earlier. I'm gonna do it just so I KNOW.
Anyway, many of you are probably picking up just by reading my posts that I need to learn a bit of patience and just SLOW down most of the time. Story of my life... But let me tell ya, I don't know if it's because things are settling down in the crossovers, or because I had an awesome breakfast with some friends this morning, but my goodness I'm enjoying everything about the sound I'm getting right now. I love these speakers. I still believe I could find some technically better speakers under a $1000, but these just have the "it factor".
I love me some SDA-2B TL :biggrin: -
I don't think you could for less than $1K, and why would you want a more techincal speaker (whatever that is) if these have the "it factor". This hobby is about the subjective reproduction of sound, not the technical merits one can squeeze out of a speaker. (see my sig) :biggrin:. I'll take a slightly slower more enjoyable to drive car over a "technically" faster car lesser enjoyable to drive car.
I'm sure it's the cross overs *starting* to settle in just as many of us have explained over and over
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H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I'm sure it's the cross overs *starting* to settle in just as many of us have explained over and over.
Yup. 200 hours minimum, 300 even better.
It's amazing to me that people even question whether or not things need to break in. There is simply no question about it. I just purchased a new pair of Signal Silver Resolution xlr interconnects to replace the copper interconnects between my dac and my preamp. I've also acquired a W4S DAC2 to evaluate against my Benchmark DAC1 Pre. Out of the box, let me tell you - things sound awful. Bright. Rough. Shrill. Narrow soundstage. Very narrow. Completely closed in and harsh sounding. I wouldn't even dream of doing any kind of critical evaluation yet. W4S recommend 200 hours break in for the DAC2, it's right there in the instructions. And silver cable can require 500 hours!!
It would be easy for someone sitting down and listening to my system right now, for the first time, to look at my components and think - "hmmmm, you need better speakers." Nope. I need more break-in.
I simply will not render any opinions on how these changes sound until these silver cables have 500 hours on them. Yeah, kind of inconvenient to need to keep my system playing on a loop for almost three weeks! But it is what it is. As long as I don't need to have the speakers on, then it's exactly that - an inconvenience. But when that's done, I'm convinced it will be well worth it!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
I don't think you could for less than $1K, and why would you want a more techincal speaker (whatever that is) if these have the "it factor". This hobby is about the subjective reproduction of sound, not the technical merits one can squeeze out of a speaker. (see my sig) :biggrin:. I'll take a slightly slower more enjoyable to drive car over a "technically" faster car lesser enjoyable to drive car.
I'm sure it's the cross overs *starting* to settle in just as many of us have explained over and over.
H9
You're right, and you're repeating my point
I'm still unsure about burn in. I'm not sure if it's me or the gear! I'm as fickle a man as they come which leads me to believe it's more me than anything.
But man do they sound right today... -
my 2Bs were TLd around april of last year....the romance continues! i have WAY more than 300 hrs, fo sho...but lately when i listen, they sound like what i would imagine the artist had in mind when they made their art in the studio...naturally, with good spkrs, a lousy recording is unbearable...some new releases come to mind..way too hot, but that's another thread..
enjoy your TLs!
mike -
my 2Bs were TLd around april of last year....the romance continues! i have WAY more than 300 hrs, fo sho...but lately when i listen, they sound like what i would imagine the artist had in mind when they made their art in the studio...naturally, with good spkrs, a lousy recording is unbearable...some new releases come to mind..way too hot, but that's another thread..
enjoy your TLs!
mike
Good to hear you're still diggin' em!
I should mention that I swapped out a pair of KnuKonceptz stereo cables for some Blue Jeans cables. For the first time, I'm actually turning UP the treble. Wild. What the heck is happening??!?! -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Good to hear you're still diggin' em!
I should mention that I swapped out a pair of KnuKonceptz stereo cables for some Blue Jeans cables. For the first time, I'm actually turning UP the treble. Wild. What the heck is happening??!?!
the xovers are settling in...don't worry they won't stay there... -
the xovers are settling in...don't worry they won't stay there...
No, it's a good thing! I like the highs rolled off slightly.
What types of setups have worked best with your 2B TL's? (amps, preamps, etc) -
My 2B's were mint through that NAD amp I'm selling Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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audiocr381ve wrote: »No, it's a good thing! I like the highs rolled off slightly.
What types of setups have worked best with your 2B TL's? (amps, preamps, etc)
i have an Adcom GFA 555..which was in place before the upgrade...reliable tank power
for the pre: i was using my Marantz 2270 for awhile...even before the Adcom that was my amp..
then i get into tubes...i now have an Aric Audio pre..it's hand wired and assembled...i go into tube-rolling phases..then settle on a pair for awhile..then it starts all over again...just one part of the overall sickness, i suppose -
My 2B's were mint through that NAD amp I'm selling
Haha, don't tempt me, I already have 2 beastly amps on the way!
I hate people that type in all caps, but I feel like I must say this in caps.
I JUST LISTENED TO SOME MICHAEL JACKSON IN 24 BIT AND OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG. Their was a section of one song where it literally sounded like someone was outside of the house playing a percussion part. I had to turn down the music to make sure someone wasn't out there!
These speakers are VERY different than they were yesterday. No kidding. I'm popping in all of my familiar tracks and the tweeters are now TAME and beautiful. Nostalgia comes to mind. Goodness gracious.
